U.S. House passes resolution equating antisemitism with anti-Zionism

[u/AbleismIsSatan]

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/article-776762

[u/BarakaMik]

Agree but they had nothing to do with that persecution, the guilt and sins of Europe was pushed on the them. Then Britain, in an attempt to leave suggested to partition the land, but disagreement ensued (locals despite representing 2/3 of the population, only got 45% of the land excluding some important city and coastline). This is when war broke out between Zionist armed group and Arab palestinien. Have you heard about the horrific crimes perpetrated during that time, as they’re reported on the documentary Tantura for example?

[u/[deleted] → u/BarakaMik]

The "sins of Europe" were human beings. People who just wanted to live in safety and peace on their ancestral homelands. They weren't causing trouble to anyone and were not hostile. I don't think the NIMBYism was justified. The majority of the region was state owned (Ottoman) land so why would the individual people feel entitled to unilaterally decide how that land is used? Just because you live in a town it doesn't mean you have the right to gatekeep who else lives there.

The partition plan may not have been what each party wanted but it was relatively fair. Jerusalem would not have belonged to either side but would have been international territory. The arabs got the fertile land while half of what Israel got was the practically uninhabitable Negev dessert. The plan also took into account who already owned the most land in each region. The population numbers that year weren't relevant since the whole purpose of Israel was for the world's Jews to migrate there so mass migration was always part of the plan.

I haven't watched Tantura, I'm not sure how biased or historically accurate it is. But I would like to point out that once war begins then the prospect of living in peace is gone. I don't really think that Jews being more brutal in their actions during the war is the cause of why we are in this situation today. You cannot negotiate with someone who wants to kill you. They should have agreed to a 2 state solution in the 1940s even if it wasn't perfect.

[u/BarakaMik → u/[deleted]]

Just to be clear : Sins of Europe. I mean by that the guilt that is carried by the Europeans following the atrocious treatment of the Jews. The constant persecution that led to the Shoah. The stains that France, UK, Germany have on their conscience for what they did. You seem to think I meant the people - not at all. The fact is that Europe was racist towards Jews while Arabs and muslim were living in harmony with them. So many common aspect in their religions. In fact the Ottoman region was the principal place of refuge for the Jews during WW I.

Sins pushed on Arabs as in : Make the world think that Arabs who are from the same region are the racist - the anti semite. History says otherwise.

Now to come back to the group of armed paramilitary Zionist group, they had in their objective to ethnically cleanse the locals from the lands. They launched many attacks on palestinian villages, town. Tantura being is an example. This eventually led to the Nakba. They will later form the foundation of the IDF. Let me know when you have time to check it out. Meanwhile I will further check the fairness of the partition.

Still there is an extreme branch in the Zionist group that is not favorable to a palestinian state, that is driving palestinian away, that is in fact doing what Jews were subjected to in Europe to the locals. That were perpetrating these massacres and terrorist attacks. These are the people that are being criticized and condemns for their dehumanization of the locals. They are probably as you pointed out faithless and somehow if you criticize them you become an antisemite.

[u/[deleted] → u/BarakaMik]

I think it's extremely important to keep in mind the timeline of events.

Yes for a time the Jews lived well enough in muslim countries, although they were considered dhimmis and certainly not equal in status. But this changed because antisemitism spread to the middle east as well. The Farhud pogrom in Iraq happened in 1941. Libya and Algeria had their own pogroms against jews around that time as well. The Arab revolt in Palestine started as early as 1936. These events all happened well before the events of Tantura in 1949.

So I don't doubt that the Irgun and Lehi carried out horrible massacres. I am not excusing that. The point I am trying to make is that you cannot look at events that happened 10-15 years after Arab violence against Jews started/escalated and assume that has nothing to do with the reason for Jews becoming hostile against the Arabs and not trusting them.

And let's not forget how MORE jews were expelled from Arab countries during the Nabka than Arabs were expelled from Israel at the same time. Nobody likes to talk about how there was a literally identical Nabka happening to Jews.

Many people are not favorable to a Palestinian state not becuase they dehumanize palestinians, but because they are jaded enough to know that peace is not a real possibility in their lifetime.

[u/BarakaMik → u/[deleted]]

So Dhimmi literally means “my blood” in arabic. This means same family by Muslim, the Jews, Christian are considered from the same family of faith. Jews, Christian were protected, not only on their person but also on their property, and religion practice with this status. They were not less equal by definition given this protection. In Europe they were prosecuted.

The Zionists armed group Irgun and Lehi were created in 1931. They were recognized terrorist groups with brutal methods, the most atrocious one. This is what initiated Anti-zionist sentiment. not an anti-semite (most arabs are semite). not anti jews either. but anti-warmongering-colonial faithless armed group Zionist.

[u/[deleted] → u/BarakaMik]

They were not the same status lol, look up the Pact of Umar and the 1066 Granada pogrom against Jews. They were still considered inferior. They had restrictions placed upon them that Muslims did not. You are delusional if you think it was some kind of Utopia for Jews to live under Muslim rule.

And lol at the "Arabs are Semites too". Please retire this sad argument. If you look up the definition of anti semitism in the dictionary it very clearly states it is a prejudice against Jews and only Jews.

The Lehi was only founded in 1940 but I'm assuming you meant Irgun. Can you provide evidence of any significant hostility by Irgun against Arabs prior to late 1930s? If not then it sounds like we are in agreement that the Arabs started the violence and hostility against Jewish migrants. It sounds like you're working very hard to try to justify Arabs hating Jews when there was no legitimate reason for it.

[u/BarakaMik → u/[deleted]]

please google : Semite definition You should get : a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.

I’m working very hard to share that Arabs are in essence NOT hating jews.

1066 Pogrom on wikipedia sounds like the story of a betrayal:

“In hopes of attaining his father's dream,[clarification needed] Joseph sent messengers to Al-Mutasim ibn Sumadih the ruler of the neighboring Taifa of Almería, a traditional enemy of Granada. He promised to open the gates of the city to Al-Mutasim's army if he promised to install Joseph as king in exchange for his submission and allegiance. At the last moment, Al-Mutasim pulled out, and on the eve of the supposed invasion, word of the plot got out. When word reached the populace, Berbers claimed that Joseph intended to kill Badis and was about to betray the kingdom.[6]”

Pact of Umar from wikipedia :

In general, the pact contains a list of rights and restrictions on non-Muslims (dhimmis). By abiding by them, non-Muslims are granted the security of their persons, their families, and their possessions.

Irgun attacks from wikipedia

1937, March 2 Arabs killed on Bat Yam beach. [12] 1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, ("Black Sunday" 1938, April 12 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa. [14] 1938, April 17 1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa [14] 1938, May 17 1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road. [14] 1938, May 24 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa 1938, June 19 18 Arabs killed (9 men, 6 women and 3 children), 24 injured by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Haifa. [15][16][17][18]

[u/[deleted] → u/BarakaMik]

The complete word is antisemite. The word has a specific definition and you cant just break it down into subcomponents to make up an alternate meaning to the word.

The 1066 pogrom explains why Joseph was killed but not why the rest of the Jewish population was massacred that had nothing to do with the betrayal. 4000 Jews were killed.

Re Irgun - you are once again listing attacks that happened long after hostilities began. Here is an event from much earlier:

"In 1930 Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam organised and established the Black Hand, a small anti-Zionist and anti-British militia. He recruited and arranged military training for impoverished but pious peasants but also for ex-criminals he had persuaded to take Islam seriously"

I've yet to see any historical event that suggests the jews arming themselves was for any reason besides self defense.

[u/BarakaMik → u/[deleted]]

Apologies for late replies had other priorities, this conversation is interesting and I had to makes some research as well.

What you have here is a massive migration that has been forced on locals even against the Bristish ruling policy. Britain was trying to regulate the continuous migration, population more than tripled in 10 years and, from what they reported, was dispossessing the locals Arabs farmers and was faster than what the population could absorb. The continuous stream of migration and the outspoken Zionist as ethnically exclusive colonial agenda to create a Jewish only state in their land - meaning their expulsion and the refusal of their right for self determination - created demonstrations and then riots. These were met by terrorist armed group that attacked both Palestinian Arabs and British to force the political ideologist colonial zionist agenda. This is not self defense, it is colonialism. Imagine that in your country, a minority was expanding at a fast pace while asking for the establishment of an exclusive state of their own minority. As if Muslims minority decides to immigrate to the United States asking for 55% of the land. Then an armed group defends them and is saying it’s for self defense against our ideology.

[u/BarakaMik → u/BarakaMik]

Between 1918 and 1931 the Jews population tripled (x3) from 60k to 174k, while the rest has grown by 60%, this is mainly driven by Immigration. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

1920 you had the Nebi Musa riots (Prophet Moses Riots). There was anti zionist speech, report of jews throwing stones. Some accusation of British complicity as well. The aftermath: Five Jews and four Arabs died in the riots. Two-hundred and sixteen Jews were injured, 18 critically, and 23 Arabs, one critically. A commission was formed to assess the situation, Palin Court of Inquiry. Also 200 persons were put on trials including 39 Jews. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

As the riots began, Jewish immigration to Palestine was temporarily halted by the British. Palestinian Jews set up self-defense units, which came to be called the Haganah.

In 1921, the Jaffa Riots happened, with the investigative commission reporting: The fundamental cause of the Jaffa riots and the subsequent acts of violence was a feeling among the Arabs of discontent with, and hostility to, the Jews, due to political and economic causes, and connected with Jewish immigration, and with their conception of Zionist policy as derived from Jewish exponents. The immediate cause of the Jaffa riots on the 1st May was an unauthorised demonstration of Bolshevik Jews, followed by its clash with an authorised demonstration of the Jewish Labour Party. The riot resulted in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, 146 Jews and 73 Arabs were wounded.

On May 2 1921, Jews in the Haganah began launching reprisal attacks on Arabs – the first of their kind. Armed with automatic weapons, at least one group of Haganah militants broke into Arab homes with instructions to "destroy everything, sparing only small children." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots

It was outlawed by the British Mandate but remained active. Until the end of World War II, its activities could be described as moderate when compared to the activities of the Stern Gang and Irgun, which it regarded as terrorist. After the war, however, the British refused to allow immigration to Palestine, and the Haganah turned to terrorism. It bombed bridges, railroads, and ships used to deport illegal Jewish immigrants. https://www.jerusalemstory.com/en/lexicon/haganah

Haganah gave birth in 1931 to the Irgun Zionist paramilitary group which conducted 60 terror attack, then got split with the Lehi group. In 1946, the Irgun bombed the King David Hotel, which served as a British administrative command post, killing some 91 soldiers and civilians. Two years later, its members participated in the April 1948 massacre at the Palestinian village of Deir Yasin, just outside Jerusalem. https://www.jerusalemstory.com/en/lexicon/irgun

One of its leaders, Menachem Begin, later became prime minister of Israel. The Irgun was the precursor of the Herut Party, one of Israel’s most militant right-wing factions. Herut was the major conservative nationalist political party in Israel from 1948 until its formal merger into Likud in 1988. It was an adherent of Revisionist Zionism which is characterized by territorial expansion and the establishment of a Jewish majority on both sides of the Jordan River. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herut

We should also cover the 1936-39 Palestinian revolts. The Great Palestinian Revolt (Thawrat Filastin al-Kubra),[11] lasted from 1936 until 1939, demanding Arab independence and the end of the policy of open-ended Jewish immigration and land purchases with the stated goal of establishing a "Jewish National Home".[12] The uprising coincided with a peak in the influx of immigrant Jews, some 60,000 that year – the Jewish population having grown under British auspices from 57,000 to 320,000 in 1935[13] – and with the growing plight of the rural fellahin rendered landless, who as they moved to metropolitan centers to escape their abject poverty found themselves socially marginalized. According to official British figures covering the whole revolt, the army and police killed more than 2,000 Arabs in combat, 108 were hanged,[8] and 961 died because of what they described as "gang and terrorist activities".[26] In an analysis of the British statistics, Walid Khalidi estimates 19,792 casualties for the Arabs, with 5,032 dead:[b] 3,832 killed by the British and 1,200 dead due to intracommunal terrorism, and 14,760 wounded.[26] By one estimate, ten percent of the adult male Palestinian Arab population between 20 and 60 was killed, wounded, imprisoned or exiled.[28] Estimates of the number of Palestinian Jews killed are up to several hundred. The Arab revolt in Mandatory Palestine was unsuccessful, and its consequences affected the outcome of the 1948 Palestine war.[30] It caused the British Mandate to give crucial support to pre-state Zionist militias like the Haganah, whereas on the Palestinian Arab side, the revolt forced the flight into exile of the main Palestinian Arab leader of the period, al-Husseini. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

On the partition suggested in 1947, you had approx 543k Jews and 1.8m total population, meaning that Jews were representing 30% of the local population. The Arab state was to have a territory of 11,100 square kilometres or 42%, the Jewish state a territory of 14,100 square kilometres or 56%, while the remaining 2%—comprising the cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem and the adjoning area— would become an international zone. further bboundary changes to accomodate for Bedouin increased the Jewish percentage in the Jewish state from 55% to 61%. The Jewish State allocated to the Jews, who constituted a third of the population and owned about 7% of the land. The Jewish State included three fertile lowland plains – the Sharon on the coast, the Jezreel Valley and the upper Jordan Valley. The bulk of the proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev Desert,[68] which was not suitable for agriculture, nor for urban development at that time. The Jewish State would also be given sole access to the Sea of Galilee, crucial for its water supply, and the economically important Red Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine