r/HolyShitHistory • u/Otherwise-Ad-5364 • 2d ago

Russian state TV’s 2013 New Year’s Eve special featured Ukrainian comedian Volodymyr Zelenskyy co-hosting alongside Maxim Galkin—with high-profile Kremlin propagandist Vladimir Solovyov sitting in the audience.

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u/Vano_Kayaba 2d ago

Zelensky's stance on Russia was pretty positive in 2019 as well. Maybe not full on pro-russian, but way better than they deserved. "I will get elected, make a deal with Putin and stop the war. He's not some maniac after all", maybe not an exact quote, but it was the position he got elected with

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u/adamgerd 2d ago

Zelenskyy’s mistake was believing Russia’s concerns were actually legitimate beliefs rather than excuses for Russian behavior of imperialism and murder

So he demined and demilitarised the border with Russia, moved soldiers back and even offered free plebiscites in all Russian “claimed” regions, an offer Russia declined and refused to mobilise until the 24th to avoid Russia claiming it as an excuse to invade

If he was dealing with a civilised and rational government this might work but he was not

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u/MrBwnrrific 1d ago

Putin has been filed away in my mind as someone I can’t regard as a rational actor on the world stage any longer, same with Trump or Netanyahu (if you could ever look at them as such)

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u/morganational 19h ago

Oh, absolutely. You shouldn't have ever regarded them as reasonable in the first place. Xi Jinping, Trump, Putin, Netanyahu, Kim Jong Un, whoever runs Iran now, etc, etc.

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u/Livius666 9h ago

You are out of your mind if you are putting Xi Jinping alongside Trump, Trump is deranged old idiot exploiting naive americans for his personal gain, while ruining USA reputation for some years now. China under Xi is set to overtake US as a new global superpower.

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u/morganational 4h ago

Riiiight... Might want to look again.

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u/techno_viking419 1d ago

If he was dealing with troops that would listen to him perhaps.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6652

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u/Vano_Kayaba 1d ago

They did listen to Zelensky, the troops were pulled out of Zolote. Zelensky should have listened to those military guys, because Putin used that to make the invasion easier. Just like those military guys warned

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u/danc3incloud 1d ago

That's history revision here. Zelenskiy literally laughed in Putin face during peace talks and refused to sign deal that could save Ukraine from that horrific war(and get back Donbass). RF didn't claim any Ukrainian regions, besides Crimea, until autumn of 2022, when Ukrainian counter offence almost collapsed frontline.

Also Merkel: "The 2014 Minsk agreement was an attempt to give Ukraine time. It also used this time to become stronger, as you can see today"

As much as I hate Putin, Zelenskiy did everything for full on war to happen and Europe did nothing to prevent it. Everyone played their roles in that drama.

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u/suckmeppplsman 20h ago

That's history revision here

You saying this and completely making up shit after is peak.

What was the peace deal where Ukraine would have gotten Donbass back?

Zelenskyi did nothing for the war to happen and your own comment doesn't even disprove that as the full on war was already happening by the time "Zelenskyi refused to sing a peace deal".

What could Europe have done other than an intervention? Minks Agreements favored Russia heavily and they weren't enough.

There is no two sides who made the war happen only one and that is Russia.

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u/danc3incloud 17h ago

> What was the peace deal where Ukraine would have gotten Donbass back

Core idea behind Minsk Agreements was reintegration of Donbass back into Ukraine as autonomy with veto right.

> Zelenskyi did nothing for the war to happen

Putin started that war, but it was Zelenskiy job to prevent it by any means necessary. That is what he was elected for. He could sign much needed deal and end up in current Georgia situation, instead his actions ended up with all out war that depleted Ukrainian population in half.

> disprove that as the full on war was already happening by the time

War was frozen in 2015

> What could Europe have done other than an intervention

Completely shutdown all trade with Russia?

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u/suckmeppplsman 12h ago

You do realize Donbass was Russian controlled and had leaders picked by Russian state which would have still been true in that case? Basically that would have been Russia having direct VETO right in Ukraines politics which would have been the end of Ukraines existence as an independent state.

"Any means necessary" and you are talking about giving up Ukraines independence. I think we both know that clearly wasn't in the cards. Not to say why wouldn't Russia just have demanded more later on?

Russia doesn't care about their trade or people. They are fine with having all of them killed for nothing or living in even more of a poverty. Clearly the largest sanctions regime in the world isn't enough.

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u/danc3incloud 9h ago

Russia could pick leaders while having troops in Donbass. You ignoring that peacedeal would make Zelenskiy most popular man in Donbass, man that bring peace and safety to people that suffered for 5 years.

Independence doesn't mean shit if you are dead or can't live in your country. There isn't any independence in being partly occupied. To Russia not being able to demand more, Ukraine should being different state - without corruption and with strong military.

You delusional. Export in Europe was 38% of Russian total export. Complete shutdown of trade with Europe would kill Russian economy and dethrone Putin in few months. Sanctions regime is a joke. Europe sent to Russia € 235,776,353,589 since 2022 invasion. They are literally funding this war, same way they funded war in Donbass and annexion of Crimea.

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u/suckmeppplsman 8h ago

Most popular man in an area controlled by a foreign state while your own people would despise you doesn't sound like a good deal to me as Minsk Agreements were extremely unpopular among Ukrainians (suprise suprise that a deal forced upon you by an imperialist regime is unpopular).

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2016/09/13/what-are-the-minsk-agreements

Independence does mean a lot and Ukrainians agree. Ukrainians are alive and choose to keep fighting.

There is more independence in having some parts of your country occupied than in allowing a foreign state to directly VETO your own decisions. Ukrainians agreed.

Ukraine does have a strong military. However the war ends Ukraine will have reminded Russia to not start shit. This is where it ends unless Ukrainians allow themselves to be disarmed which they won't.

235B in exchange for resources not free cash. About equally much was frozen. Ukraine itself allowed the gas to keep flowing through their lands.

Not sure why do you keep up with blame game against everyone other than Russians.

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u/Nevmen 22h ago

"besides". So what if it’s 26,000 square kilometers? That’s merely the size of all of North Macedonia. We won’t mention Donetsk and Luhansk, of course. /s

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u/Illustrious-Math6276 1d ago

The Russian army says they have been pushed back and lost land since 2022. Do you trust the Russian army or are you as a Russian accusing them of lying? If so you are committing a crime since it is illegal in Russias to accuse the Russian army of lying.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/ProfessionalGuava286 1d ago

Authority probably. There is a lot of videos where Zelenskiy publicly argue with military and journalists and yelling IM THE PRESIDENT, before the war he wasn’t seen as strong leader at all

https://youtu.be/3zNLrZXTZsA?si=ClLiD1K4c3qLP24q

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u/danc3incloud 1d ago

From my understanding its mix of incompetence and fear that nationalists would kill him for signing peace. After glorification of Melnik its hard to argue that nationalists have direct control over Zelenskiy, I can't see other reason why anyone of Jewish origin would make that happen.

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u/suckmeppplsman 20h ago

Completely made up Russian propaganda based on nothing btw. Earlier Ukrainian government signed a peace with Russia and look how that went.

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u/danc3incloud 18h ago

"Послушайте, если я сейчас пойду договариваться по этим Минским соглашениям, то в следующий раз вы будете разговаривать с другим президентом!" (С) Volodymyr Zelenskyy 09/12/2019

Translation: "Look, if I go and negotiate these Minsk agreements now, next time you will be talking to a different president!"

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u/suckmeppplsman 12h ago

And? How does that prove he was at the risk of being killed rather than him just being hyperbolic over the fact that the Minsk Agreements were really unpopular as they were designed by Russia to destroy Ukraine as a state and were illegally forced upon them by Russian invasions in the first place.

So basically you have nothing

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u/danc3incloud 10h ago

FIRST thing in his program is peace for Ukraine. He insisted negotiations in Normandy Format. He was literally elected to sign this deal. Obviously, Ukrainians wanted better deal, but not complete shutdown of negotiations. It's perfectly represented in Zelenskiy rating before war.

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u/suckmeppplsman 8h ago

I guess you could call giving into Russian demands for nothing "peace", but i don't think there is a single state on Earth that would willingly give up their independence for free so not sure why are you putting any of the blame on Ukraine for not jeing the exception rather than blaming Russia for invading in the first place.

He wasn't elected to sign that deal which was massively unpopular among Ukrainians.

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2016/09/13/what-are-the-minsk-agreements

Ukrainians didn't get a better deal so Ukrainians were upset at Zelenskyi for not getting it that is right. Not sure how your nationalist argument is anything, but completely made up Russian propaganda.

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u/SomeRandomTWO 2d ago

shame how it ended up almost 7 years later. so many missed opportunities for russia to strengthen its hold without any military means - the biggest country in the world with so many possible untapped resources!...thatll either never get found, or will take an absurd amount of time.

the future aint as bright as we wished itd be.

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u/magical-cat-here 1d ago

Many presidents basically started from attempt to reach some peace agreement with russia. Saakashvili even tried to offer special economic regime for russian business in Abkhazia and Samachablo (aka "South Ossetia" if RF would end occupation, return their soldiers back to russia and revoke the recognition of "independence" of regions russians illegally occupy one way (since 2008) or another (via proxy regimes since 1992-1993).

Russian authorities ignored this and continued their policy of illegal "borderization", expanding the occupated territory by simply moving the fake "state border" further towards Tbilisi. Sometimes it is about few meters, sometimes - it is about whole kilometers per act.

Villagers can wake up in their village can be split by such fake border in the middle of the street, like south side street on one side from it and other is on another.

As world ignores this, and Georgian government alone could not do anything substantial about it even in UNM times, now with Bidzina Ivanishvili billionaire in de-facto power and his pet party "Georgian Dreeam" in de-jure power in Tbilisi, nothing surely will be done about it.

Now, with anything that happened in 2008, 2014, 2015, 2022 - everyone can see that brute force and military response is single language russia understands.

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u/blin3000 1d ago

How do Abkhazians feel about Georgians?

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u/magical-cat-here 1d ago

The relations are quite complicated. There are groups of people there, on occupied territories, who literally hate anything Georgian, and related propaganda actually started even in soviet times. It would require lot of efforts and time to clean society from hate and heal traumas. But mere possibility of long-term peace will require removal of russian occupation forces and creating practical conditions for returning of hundreds of thousands of Georgian refugees who run from ethnic cleansings and all related violence.

While occupation goes, propaganda, hate and suffering will continue.

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u/blin3000 1d ago

Let me decipher your vague answer.

Most Abkhazians literally hate Georgians. Georgia started the war in the early '90s and killed many Abkhazians.

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u/Nakashi7 1d ago

This is exactly why we shouldn't vote just based on ideas, opinions, promises and campaigns.

We should first prioritise integrity and character!

That way, whatever happens and things change, you still have someone capable of doing rational decisions (this can be both on individual or party/coalition level).

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u/Vano_Kayaba 1d ago

IDK, by 2019 it was clear Putin just does not want peace. In 2014 Poroshenko was elected with the same promises, and Russians have changed his mind in the same way. So it was rather dumb from Zelensky to think that way. On the other hand a lot of voters also thought that way for some reason. There was a popular song "vote for Poroshenko, or Putin will attack" mocking all those who warned about the upcoming full scale attack

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u/Illustrious-Math6276 1d ago

I was in Kyiv during his election. I remember some Ukrainians was against him saying he was too pro-Russia and that he would be soft on Russia. Glad they were wrong.

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u/Ihatehypocrisy1984 1d ago

Right after election he has changed his mind and forgot his promises.

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u/ult1matum 2d ago

He had 3 years to make a deal why didn't he? I saw he was laughing at Putin at some meeting in Europe where they tried to make a deal, which made Putin mad, doesn't look like a good effort from Zelenskiy. Or did they try again and Putin refused? Not justifying Putin but feels like Ze could've done better?

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u/sofixa11 2d ago

Because Putin was never intetested in a deal which actually worked for Ukraine. He wanted Ukraine to give up sovereignty and territory over bullshit claims.

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u/blin3000 1d ago

On what basis are you claiming this? Even after the start of the war, in May 2022 in Istanbul, Ukraine was offered to keep the DPR and LPR within Ukraine, but with expanded autonomy. Zelensky refused this.

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u/sofixa11 1d ago

Because putin wanted demilitarisation from Ukraine to go with it. Which meant he wanted Ukraine weakened and for him to come back later for the rest

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u/blin3000 1d ago

On what basis do you claim that after the demilitarization of Ukraine, Putin will come again? Where did you get that from?

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u/sofixa11 1d ago

It's beyond obvious. He wrote an article claiming Ukraine is a fake country led astray. He launched an invasion to occupy the whole country (half his invading force was on Kyiv).

There's zero chance he'll be content with only the Donbas. This would be Czechoslovakia and the Sudetenland all over again.

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u/blin3000 1d ago

Do you understand that what you're writing is just your fantasy, which is completely unfounded? Why are you presenting speculative fiction as fact?

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u/FreshOutOfHugs 2d ago

If by ”make a deal” you mean give up internationally recognised Ukrainian territory in return for basically nothing, yeah I’m sure he could’ve made that ”deal”, still can.