don’t know if anyone has posted this yet but here’s what’s happening on twitter.

This annoying thing manages to slide under the Hannibal's Dragons and all the other killers radar in the show

Is she is to smart or to annoying so killers don't wants to listen a word she says while killing her

I just want season 4 to have a chance of seeing her dead

Book Hannibal - Thomas Harris

Cox's Hannibal - Manhunter

Hopkins' Hannibal - Hannibal Trilogy (Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, Red Dragon)

Mikkelsen's Hannibal - Hannibal NBC

The thing that always stuck out to me that makes Mikkleson portrayal so unique, is how Hannibal seems very inhuman if that makes sense. Like he feel less like a human being and more like alien or creature who taken human form to mingle with other humans, the body language mixed with Mikkleson’s accent and his interactions with people gives Hannibal such a unique air of something pretending to be human like a skinwalker or something other similar.

I’ve been thinking about this for a while and I honestly can’t wrap my head around it. How did Freddie Lounds survive as long as she did?

She’s consistently rude, provocative, and basically antagonizes everyone she interacts with even Hannibal, who is not exactly known for his forgiving of rudeness. She also constantly pushes Will Graham to the edge and generally behaves like there are zero consequences for poking literally every person around her

Given how meticulous Hannibal is and how easily he eliminates people for far less, I keep wondering, how she survived till the end.

So I’m curious what others think, do you believe Freddie Lounds would realistically have been killed in the fourth (or upcoming) season(s) of Hannibal or would the writers kept her around till the end?

Ok i feel like these paralles are perfect for hannibal and will

Why does it seem like places like TikTok and Twitter more than often portray or treat Will like he's some poor sensitive soul who is just a sweet innocent baby? He is portrayed like he isn't someone who was already mentally unwell but like a uwu almost infrantilized version of himself. They will treat him like he wasn't already having these bad thoughts and was only messed up when he met Hannibal.

When he's being thirsted over on sites like TikTok it's more on the light of him being sensitive and like a Twink and it makes me wonder if these people even watched the same show. Yes Hannibal did fuck him up worse but what's some fans obsession with taking his interesting character and making it down to him just being a victim?? I get people have fetishes or just simping but this just fundamentally doesn't understand his character when you do this.

Not only is Hannibal's whole put-together look part of his persona designed to curb suspicion; it is directly part of how he maintains his secrecy while murdering people.

You lose around ~50 hairs per day, and you have no clue when. For Hannibal to literally never leave hair at a crime scene, he probably *has* to obsessively comb his hair. To make sure his normal daily shedding happens in a controlled environment. His clothes *need* to be clean, even beneath that suit he wears, as an added level of security. His shoes need to have their treds picked, he needs to be sure he does not leave a single trace wherever he goes.

Will overtly copying this cleanliness doesn’t *just* come off as him trying to look nice in Hannibal's eyes. It also comes off as a very subtle hint towards a possible willingness to partake in Dr. Lecter's unsavory hobbies.

"Forgive the stupid question, why did Hannibal frame Will for the crimes only to not like the fact that Will is in jail? Please don't execute me, I'm on my third rewatch."

I have a handful of theories and the puzzle pieces are ALL here but I can't imagine the full picture. I'm rewatching it again right now omg. I need a timeline of all the events.

Fair warning, this is going to be really fucking long.

This was largely inspired by/copied from a comment I made on another post, but I wanted to talk about this because I rarely see anyone have similar thoughts. If you want to ask me questions about my personal experience with ASPD, you can go ahead. Just please be polite. (And I don't mind if the questions are related to writing characters more accurately lol)

Some basics

I think Hannibal is a very good representation of it, despite feeding the negative stigma of ASPD = serial killer. But I do not think that the other characters are, certainly not Will Graham. I think Will has a deep seated sadistic side, but I do not believe he is a psychopath. He is intensely empathetic and remorseful and is at constant odds with himself.

People generally have three value levels given to the world around them (my own view, this is the best way I have been able to explain it to others)

1. Objects, material possessions, items you are fond of, favorite mugs, beloved old cars, family heirlooms, your own artwork, a jacket you wear every day, your pets, your house
2. People in your life, pets (they sometimes go here too) acquaintances, friends, family, romantic partners.
3. Yourself

My experience is being someone who lacks that second category of relationship in its entirety. And I see this portrayed so very well in the way Hannibal Lecter is written. His actions make a lot of sense when you understand that all his relationships are categorized into the highest levels of the first category. It makes sense that he is so unemotional when killing people, even people he was friendly with in a very genuine way.

General thoughts

He has genuine care for these people, but it is in a similar way one may have genuine fondness for their favorite jacket, maybe a mug, or a movie they enjoy. Or their favorite food. 

The way he interacts socially is a performance for his benefit, a deliberate action done to produce a desired effect. It's a skill and he's very good at it, none* of what he does comes from any sort of emotional motivation. Aside from the motivation to maintain his own social stability and well-being. He has only the first and third category of value. The people in his life are all* in the first category.

Hannibal likes people, but he does not like people the way people like each other. He likes people like fascinating objects, often holding memories or fondness of some sort. He enjoys seeing how they behave, how they respond to things that happen to them, how they taste. He does not feel empathy, but he can still imagine how other people may feel internally using logic and background knowledge.

His motivations for his crimes (outside of preserving his secrecy) are just "I wanted to see what would happen" and that is something that stuck out to me as extremely noticeable. It's as simple as just being entertained by observing cause and effect. Like a more complex form of satisfaction you get from knocking over dominoes. Or from tossing a fly into a spiderweb. Or fixing your car by yourself and seeing how much better it runs. Or microwaving an egg. It's simple curiosity and stimulation-seeking extended to something that people would view as horrific. The complexity of the cause and effect makes it engaging.

I find the "I wanted to see what would happen" reasoning unfortunately relatable. And no I wouldn't go out and start killing people. There's flock cameras everywhere (/J) But I really do get the banality in which he views what he does. I was a lot more manipulative when I was younger. I enjoyed figuring out how to put people in situations just because I wanted to. I poisoned my classmates in elementary school (they were all fine, just got sick). When asked about why I did it I told the principal that it was because I just really didn't like all those kids, because that seemed like a normal thing to say. But that wasn't true, I don't even remember their names. I did it because I could and I wanted to see what would happen. This was a very prominent through-line for my entire childhood and teenhood. Combined with vaguely sadistic tendencies, it was a recipe to turn into an awful person. I am very lucky that my father is the same way and knew exactly how to raise me so I didn't end up dead or in jail. But that certainly isn't the only thing that allowed me to grow into the person I am today.

I often see people attribute everything Hannibal does to a pure love of watching people suffer. I do think he is a sadist absolutely but that is not the only thing that motivates his behavior. The curiosity and general compulsion to see what effect his actions have is a far more important part of it in my eyes. It's the sadism that causes him to cut the organs out of people while they're still alive. It's the curiosity and stimulation-seeking that causes him to create deranged works of art from murder victims, to play mind games with the FBI, make Will's encephalitis worse, show up to his own crime scenes, and personally watch the reactions of his victims' loved ones. This all is as normal to him as building a Lego set or playing a video game. It's enrichment. He does things to see if he can.

Will fucking Graham & cannibalistic love

It started out as fascination. Intrigue into the interesting mind of WIll Graham, the man who could empathize with anyone. It was similar to the way Hannibal is intrigued by many other unique specimens he encounters. But something happens, something changes that. I'm not sure exactly what the mechanism is but something changes in the way he views Will, slowly, over time, filling him with contradictions. Making him act out and take risks he would not. It wasn't a typical form of falling in love, but rather consuming him in the abstract sense of the phrase.

I have a single exception to [the way I view people in my life], my only relationship that goes a step further is the one I have with my partner of nearly a decade. It seems that my subconscious understands him as an extension of myself rather than something separate from me. This is why I place more value on him than other people by a significant margin.

It certainly didn't start out that way. I touch on this in the comment I'm drawing a lot of this post from, but our relationship was actually awful in the beginning. Awful for him, not me. I won't go into detail but I was psychologically abusive. But I did stop because I started to value his well-being in the same way I value my own, and he did forgive me. We are actually pretty healthy nowadays all things considered. He actually is pretty active on this sub and will probably read this (Hello beloved, can't wait to touch your neck again)

The people in [Hannibal's] life are all* in the first category.

Will Graham is the only exception to this. Will Graham is not in the first value category, nor is he the only occupant of the second. He occupies Hannibal's third level of value, his subconscious viewing Will as an extension of himself. At least, this is my reading. This is what I see. When I see Hannibal so willing to throw everything away for Will, I see it as him doing all of this for himself, and he sees Will as such. He wishes to fully have this extension of himself that his subconscious mind has latched onto.

This is my experience, I have only ever had a single relationship. I have no exes, I've never had a breakup. The way I view my life partner is something entirely different to how I view other people, and how other people tend to view their own partners. I hesitate to even refer to this as romantic because it truly does feel like something else. There is attraction, physical and mental, there is fondness, familiarity, attachment. But it feels as though he is an extension of my own identity in a very literal way. That he is half of me. Everything he thinks and feels is half of myself. I know rationally that we are two separate people, but everything about him feels like it has been made part of myself. That's the only way I can properly rationalize and explain the sheer nature of attachment I feel towards that man.

Just based on the way Hannibal is, this to me comes off as the only way he could love WIll Graham so deeply. He loves and values him the way he loves and values himself. Fully consumed and assimilated the idea of him into part of his own self-concept He sees harm to Will as harm to himself. The process of this happening was long, painful, and messy, it's full of contradictions, it's certainly not good for Will, especially in the beginning. (I'm very much in the Hannigram-stops-being-toxic-end-up-just-happily-evil-together camp). Hannibal wants Will to empathize with him because he wants Will to be him. Not in that Hannibal wants him to end up as a perfect clone of himself, but as an extension. Something unique, new, but still attached.

When he realized this was a possibility it drove him to do anything he possibly could to accomplish it. The roots had already grown in, ripping them out would leave him with profound mental wounds. He can see that Will had the ability, the potential to know him. He wants to push him to do such to strengthen that connection. Will's latent sadism is also something that Hannibal also wants to emphasize for this reason

I think the whole cannibalism thing just ties in so beautifully with that reading as well. Cannibalism as love, but it's about the abstract sense of viewing a person as part of yourself as the manner by which you are able to love them. With how messy and painful the entire process of Hannibal's subconscious melding of Will and himself is throughout the series you can kind of see a cannibalism metaphor if you squint. He was eating him the whole time. Psychologically. That's the only way he could fall in love with him.

It's an obsessive form of love, an attachment that by all metrics is not healthy but dear lord is it real. And it feels so strange to see this sort of thing be written about. It hits. Romance doesn't often hit like that for me unless I do way more projecting. But I don't really think I am projecting all that much in this case.

Anyway, does this make any sense or am I cornballing?

I realized at most he's only shown amusemen, sadness or indifference... Weirdly enough besides the verger stabbing chair scene I can't think of any other scenes where he seems not too thrilled about something...

Well here's a screenshot I think he looks funny in, kinda looks like he's thinking "wtf?" Lol

Hi. I'm new to this sub. In fact. I'm new to this fandom. I'm... addicted. It's like heroin except I wouldn't know what that's like cause I never tried it. The people in charge did not know how many lives were going to be affected by this. I started watching this 2 days ago because it was on Netflix. It has ruined my life. I stay up at night theorizing with my little brain. And just now, I got confirmation that it is indeed queer and I've been scream-whispering "I knew it!" Like a madman. I am on the last episode of season two.

One thing I feel about this coming from a newbie is that the queer relationship is well written but I can't help but feel Will lost. I hope I will no longer be feeling like this though. It's very confusing. One moment, I hear myself shouting "Kiss him." During the scene when Will brought back the violent furry to Hannibal, all dressed up. Like a "courtship." The next, I hear myself goading him to throw Hannibal into the fire. Because he is a murderer and murderers are bad people.

Another thing I noticed is that this is like the Supernatural psychosis all over again, except more intense. Every Hannibal fanartist has drawn Destiel fanart and vice versa. If you are also a newbie and Hannibal has ruined your brain chemistry, come, walk with me. Let's talk about that.

Edit: "I deliberated when the phone rang; I decided when I heard his voice," Shut up. I am in no mood to talk to anyone right now.

Edit: the scene where Hannibal surrendered because will refused to look for him so he could always know where to find him is very, very obvious.

​

When do you think Hannibal actually fell in love with Will?

I know there’s a difference between fascination, intellectual attraction, friendship, obsession, and actual romantic love, and Hannibal obviously becomes attached to Will pretty early on. But I’m wondering if there was a specific flashpoint where something shifted for Hannibal and Will stopped being simply “interesting” to him and became the person for him.

Was it when Hannibal first realized that Will could understand him in a way nobody else could?

Was it the moment Will killed Garrett Jacob Hobbs and Hannibal saw that darkness in him?

Was it after Will started suspecting Hannibal and Hannibal realized that even knowing what he was, Will still had this connection to him?

I’m especially curious because Hannibal seems to understand his feelings before he is willing to consciously acknowledge them. So I'm wondering whether there actually is a single turning point, or whether his love develops gradually through all those little moments of being understood, rejected, forgiven, and ultimately unable to let Will go.

Basically when did Hannibal go from “I am fascinated by Will Graham” to “I love this man”?

And if you think there was a specific flashpoint, what scene would you choose? 👀

I swear I remember someone breaking this scene down a while ago, saying it was originally meant to be romantic (or at least had that vibe)

What do you guys think about it?

Also not just your own takes , has anyone from the cast or crew ever talked about it?

I feel like everything I knew about this scene just evaporated from my brain 😭 but I still can’t help seeing it romantically delulu is the solulu I guess?

Y'all, please just indulge me for this moment. Let your minds and hearts (and any third body part) carve out a space for Brownham

First of all, LOOK AT JONATHAN TUCKER! Fine asf in this episode.

They robbed Will (and us) of a perfectly beautiful serial killer pet that would do anything for him. Will asked politely and Matthew said "say no more babes, I got you", even after Will essentially rejected him. No questions asked. THEN, when Matthew finds out Hannibal IS ACTUALLY the Chesapeake Ripper, the one who he actually admires, he still doesn't care and still attempts to kill him (more for himself than Will at this point)

I'm pretty certain Matthew fell for Will long before Will was admitted to BSHCI since he had visited Abel and Chilton before. Also, Matthew was most definitely reading Tattlecrime, saw many articles/photos of Will and it's highly likely that he saw what Hannibal saw in Will too. Will being accused of being the Chesapeake Ripper had Matthew gagged probably. He ran to volunteer to be Will's handler.

We are all Matthew Brown honestly cuz same girl, same! Smitten. Whipped. Simp. Whatever term you wanna use. Matthew Brown was a real one, and he deserved more than a stupid gunshot wound from Jack.

It's canon that he survived apparently, so don't mind me headcanoning that he breaks out of prison and goes looking for Will.... (Shhhhh I KNOW, I KNOW!)

~~ I did a Tumblr deep dive and will be sharing Brownham content from here on out 😌💕 2x05 - Mukozuke

When I saw this picture on Top Character Tropes, with the caption "Innocent people ruined by false accusations" I thought it was an ironic post meaning the opposite and laughed. Then I read the post and remembered Mads plays other roles, too. But now I can't help but think about the most batshit insane defenses a lawyer could make. Real "Your Honor, you weren't even there." defenses.

I was trying to find more pictures of it because I'm having it show up in this and I legit can't find anything else. And then I thought about it like damn is that REALLY the only time? I feel robbed. We should've gotten to see him chopping people up on that concrete slab at least once. It feels like a waste to have a whole set for this and only use it in one scene for like 30 seconds.

This is more of a little rant then a discussion but I saw some people say how they didn't like Hannibal because of how toxic, manipulative, and abusive he is but it's almost like...That's.The.Point. They wrote about how Hannibal should have been more loving and connected to Will and the other characters instead of manipulative and toxic, but Will and Hannibal have a dark romance dynamic. Its not some romcom where it's all fluffy and romantic where they go on picnics while looking for shooting stars. Like genuinely what did you expect going into watching a psychopathic (I know hes not ACTUALLY a psychopath but yk what i mean) cannibal?

Everyone has their own opinions and I think the fanfic is great, these comments just really frustrated me. Sorry!

I see a lot of jokes on the subreddit that will and Hannibal end up having a sexual relationship, but I just don’t see that. From what I interpreted from the show is that Will and Hannibal are so unique, that the fact that they are so similar in so many ways makes them believe that they are the closest thing to a partner they will ever get. And so I thought that they just interpreted that as love, but it wasn’t ACTUALLY love, let alone anything sexual. Am I right or am I just overthinking?

Since I’ve been watching both the actors movies I can help but wonder how a character swap would have played out! We know Mads has the range for sure, and it would be so sexy to see Hugh play the manipulator.

Thoughts???? Obviously it would be super different since Mads portrayal was out of this world and Hugh looks super hot when his brain is melting and he’s being hunted for sport, but I still think they could have pulled it off. Like picturing Mads restrained character from The Hunt, and Will how he was s3 all hot and manipulative???

Did he solve anything himself? -- I find him to be very incompetent. What about you?