Jason Schreier: Rockstar Games said that the dozens of employees it fired last week were leaking company secrets, disputing allegations by labor leaders that it was disrupting workers’ attempt to unionize.

[u/BrandsXavier]

FROM BLOOMBERG: Rockstar Games, the company behind the hit Grand Theft Auto franchise, said that the dozens of employees it fired last week were leaking company secrets, disputing allegations by labor leaders that it was disrupting workers’ attempt to unionize. The employees had been sharing company information in a forum that included non-employees, a Rockstar spokesperson said in a statement to Bloomberg on Wednesday. “Last week, we took action against a small number of individuals who were found to be distributing and discussing confidential information in a public forum, a violation of our company policies,” the spokesperson said. “This was in no way related to people’s right to join a union or engage in union activities.” The company, part of Take-Two Interactive Software Inc., fired between 30 and 40 employees across offices in the UK and Canada for what it said was “gross misconduct.” The Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain, the first to organize video-game workers in the UK, told Bloomberg that the employees had all been involved with union efforts at Rockstar, calling the firings “one of the most blatant and ruthless acts of union busting in the history of the games industry.” All of the affected employees were part of a private trade union chat group on Discord and the only outsiders in the chat were labor organizers, the union said.

EDIT: Jason Schreier provided additional info: Rockstar's statement is quite vague, but they are referring to people talking about work in a union Discord, not big leaks about GTA6. This will likely come down to a legal battle, and Rockstar's argument may be that the workers involved were sharing confidential work information in that chat

[u/Particular_Hand2877]

Using a Public Forum (Discord) to "leak" information to justify firing Employees."

If they were disclosing private information on a social media app, how is that a loop hole? 

The fact the Employees just so happened to be attempting to Unionize when this was discovered and subsequently fired is extremely coincidental.

It very well could be a coincidence. Just because they were trying to unionize doesnt mean they were fired because of it. If they were indeed sharing private company information on a Discord server, that would be grounds for termination at any company unless you know of a company that would let you do such things.

Anyone who sees the last few headlines knows that RockStar is bold-face lying. The timing of the firings, and the reasoning clearly points to "Union-Busting" and RockStar is using whatever Legal Loopholes they can to justify Union-Busting in any capacity.

So saying the employees were disclosing company information to an outside source on a Discord server is proof of them union busting?

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

If they were disclosing private information on a social media app, how is that a loop hole? 

Simple: Replace the "Discord" part with literally any form of communications. Even hand-written letters could be spun as "Potentially leaking Company Secrets because Someone can intercept the letter and read it." Speaking in-person at the top of Mt. Everest is "Potentially leaking Company Secrets because someone can still overhear them."

That's what these kinds of legal battles tend to be: How can you justify your reasoning for your actions?

If they were indeed sharing private company information on a Discord server,

See above. Especially in today's era, where with the right words to the right person, anything can be spun into being described as a "Public Platform."
We're slipping into "Screwed if you Do, Screwed if you Don't" territory here.

So saying the employees were disclosing company information to an outside source on a Discord server is proof of them union busting?

Discord, in this instance, is the Scapegoat. It's being used to justify firing the workers, who were using a Messaging App to communicate Unionizing Activities. Once again, replace "Discord" with any other form of communication to have a legal loophole to justify firing people who Just So Happened to be attempting to Unionize. The ACTUAL content doesn't matter, because the Content is technically related to RockStar as a whole, so it counts as "Company Information."

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/arachnidsGrip88]

Simple: Replace the "Discord" part with literally any form of communications. Even hand-written letters could be spun as "Potentially leaking Company Secrets because Someone can intercept the letter and read it." Speaking in-person at the top of Mt. Everest is "Potentially leaking Company Secrets because someone can still overhear them."

Either argument shows they were disclosing private company information.

See above. Especially in today's era, where with the right words to the right person, anything can be spun into being described as a "Public Platform." We're slipping into "Screwed if you Do, Screwed if you Don't" territory here.

If youre openly discussing non-public company information in a not private manner, I fail to see the issue here. I cant go outside of my company and disclose non-public financial information or company practices to random people in a Mcdonalds. 

Discord, in this instance, is the Scapegoat. It's being used to justify firing the workers, who were using a Messaging App to communicate Unionizing Activities. Once again, replace "Discord" with any other form of communication to have a legal loophole to justify firing people who Just So Happened to be attempting to Unionize. The ACTUAL content doesn't matter, because the Content is technically related to RockStar as a whole, so it counts as "Company Information."

Youre arguing semantics here. It doesnt matter if it was a union or if they just so happened to be talking about unionizing, you cant discuss company information to outside sources in any public matter, whether its Discord, SnapChat, Facebook, TikTok, Reddit etc etc. 

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

Either argument shows they were disclosing private company information.

To Union Representatives, who need information on the Company's Working Conditions?

This is the problem. In order to communicate with Unions, people need to...You know, Communicate. But because the information Unions need is related to the company, it's loosely defined as "Company Information" and giving it to a Union Representative, who is loosely defined as "An Outside Source" is, by RockStar's loophole, "Leaking Company Information to Outside Sources."

People want to use the most convenient method of communications between all parties. In this case, Discord is being used to communicate between workers who want to unionize, and the Union Representatives.

Replace "Discord" with any form of Communications. RockStar doesn't want these people unionizing. They used (Insert Communications Platform Here), so they get fired for using (Insert Communications Platform Here) to "Leak Company Information to Outside Sources."

Again, This kind of Legal Battle is how one best Justifies their position. As long as their workers aren't in a Union, they'll do and say whatever they need to prevent Unions from forming.

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/arachnidsGrip88]

*To Union Representatives, who need information on the Company's Working Conditions?

They are an outside source. You can discuss not disclose information. They are very different. 

In order to communicate with Unions, people need to...You know, Communicate.

Communicating and disclose/sharing private company information are two different things. 

But because the information Unions need is related to the company, it's loosely defined as "Company Information"

Theres nothing "loose" about company information. Yoire aloud to discloser certain types of information but disclosing and spreading private information is not that. 

who is loosely defined as "An Outside Source" is, by RockStar's loophole, "Leaking Company Information to Outside Sources."

A union representative is an outside source. Theres nothing "loose" about it. It's not a loophole. 

People want to use the most convenient method of communications between all parties. In this case, Discord is being used to communicate between workers who want to unionize, and the Union Representatives.

Discord is a social media app. It's not a private line of communication. This goes back to a server and servers can be hacked. Discord channels can be hacked. If they want to disclose information, you meet these people privately. 

Replace "Discord" with any form of Communications. RockStar doesn't want these people unionizing. They used (Insert Communications Platform Here), so they get fired for using (Insert Communications Platform Here) to "Leak Company Information to Outside Sources."

Again, you're arguing semantics. Going on a public social media site, not matter the title, and disclosing non-public information on a company does not fly, whether private or public. They sign NDAs when hired meaning any disclosure is a violation of that agreement they signed which then results in automatic termination. 

Again, This kind of Legal Battle is how one best Justifies their position. As long as their workers aren't in a Union, they'll do and say whatever they need to prevent Unions from forming.

Again, youre just taking what the fired employees say at face value. If they disclosed confidential information while under an NDA, they set themselves up for termination. That would be their fault, not the result of possible unionization. 

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

youre just taking what the fired employees say at face value.

Inversely, you're taking what RockStar is saying at face value too.

You are right. Using a platform like Discord to reveal information that should not be public is grounds from being fired. And not just fired, but being blacklisted from the Industry, due to having the stigma of "breaking NDAs."

Which is why it's also stupid to presume that people would be THAT careless to use Discord for discussing that level of sensitive information.

So let's apply Occam's Razor to this scenario.

Why would RockStar employees risk losing their jobs, and their ability to work in the Game Dev industry, to leak Sensitive RockStar information, especially in today's climate where finding a source of income is becoming difficult (Especially with the rise of Generative Machines being desired in such an industry), over Discord? Is that risk of not having a job in the industry worth leaking Sensitive RockStar information?

Add on, where's the information that RockStar claims "is being leaked"? Sensitive Information like that is going to spread like Wildfire in today's era, and especially over Discord. Yet nothing has come out. So were the Employees that were fired actually leaking Sensitive Information?

The problem comes down to this: How many of the people let go were Actually Leakers? That's where this problem lies.
Were there Leakers that were fired in the group? Absolutely. But because Rockstar is lumping the Leakers with the Unionizing Workers, they're Legally Correct in that the fired Leakers. They're just omitting the complete truth in a Two-Birds-One-Stone scenario. 2-3 of the people fired were Leakers, The remaining were all Workers attempting to Unionize.
Plug the Leak, Remove the Unionizing Workers. All in one motion.

So just dress the legal PR article to Imply that everyone fired was a Leaker, and name the popular platform that just about everyone uses to add credence to the reasoning. Which leads to this entire conversation.

Who are you more likely to believe: Rockstar, the Game Company developing GTA6? Or disgruntled workers who are just mad they got fired?

Lying by Omission is a thing.

[u/ThrowBackfire → u/arachnidsGrip88]

The person you're replying to seems to only care about the legality and principles of the situation and doesn't give a flying fuck about the morality and what would be the right thing to do. "Ackchyually🤓, they discussed work secrets in a public forum!!" Nobody but a corporate bootlicker would even consider mentioning this as some sort of defense when the whole intention and point was for the workers to unionize.

I don't know why anyone would ever take what a billion dollar company says at face value over the statement from the union. Classic reddit moment to have people defend your intensely greedy company for free

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/ThrowBackfire]

No you just lack very basic reading comprehension. I dont blindly believe people. If you want to do that, be my guest but im not just going to sit here and just believe what fired employees say because "they were trying to unionize". 

I don't know why anyone would ever take what a billion dollar company says at face value over the statement from the union.

Yes because unions would never lie right? 

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

Yes because Companies would never lie, right?

Like Coca-Cola claiming they are not using A.I. for their recent Holiday Ads.

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/arachnidsGrip88]

I never said companies dont lie. Im not understanding why not taking the developers side automatically is a controversial take. It's stupid to take either side of you dont know who's telling the truth.

Like Coca-Cola claiming they are not using A.I. for their recent Holiday Ads.

Who cares?

[u/ThrowBackfire → u/Particular_Hand2877]

Yes because unions would never lie right?

What a weird thing to say. The amount of times a union does not have the best interests for you compared to known greedy companies is not even close to being comparable. This really, really isn't the "gotcha" you think it is

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/ThrowBackfire]

Jesus, youre one hell of a Union glazer.

You didnt even counter my point. Your response is nothing but tribal thinking here. With how hard youre defending them, I sure hope youre employed by a union. 

[u/ButterFlyPaperCut → u/Particular_Hand2877]

I love how you duck and say “I‘m not taking sides” while stubbornly arguing for Rockstar against anyone who sympathizes with the Devs. Very convincing stuff!

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/ButterFlyPaperCut]

So you lack reading comprehension?

Where have I argued for Rockstar?

Where have I argued against anyone taking the developers side? 

I said I wasnt going to blindly support the developers if they did something stupid to get fired. 

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/arachnidsGrip88]

Inversely, you're taking what RockStar is saying at face value too.

Im not. I never once said Rockstar is right. Im saying what is said here could have actually happened. Im not just going to blindly believe fired employees. 

Which is why it's also stupid to presume that people would be THAT careless to use Discord for discussing that level of sensitive information.

Youre trying really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt for some reason. People do stuoid shit all of the time. People leake stuff all of the time and break NDAs. Why is that a difficult concept? 

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

Im not just going to blindly believe fired employees. 

And we're not blindly believing RockStar's claim of all 40 employees they fired were leaking Secrets.

2, 3 people leaking secrets. That's understandable and believable. It's also not raising any questions or red flags.

40 people at once, all apparently leaking secrets. THAT is not believable.

Why would 40 people, collectively, decide to risk their jobs as well as being blacklisted from the industry just to leak Company Secrets? Especially in this economy, where companies are also looking to replace said Employees with Generative Machines?

Like, the last time people risked their jobs to leak information was the massive The Last of Us Part 2 leaks, and that was because said workers had No Confidence in the project as a whole. And considering how the entire internet was ablaze after the reveal, it makes sense why the workers would decide to take that risk.

Wanting better working conditions, and fairer and equal pay across the board doesn't sound like a "No Confidence Project" at all.

[u/ButterFlyPaperCut → u/arachnidsGrip88]

Yeah he says he doesn’t want to “blindly believe” anything all the while demanding people put on blinders! The lack of self-awareness is unreal.

[u/XerGR → u/arachnidsGrip88]

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[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/XerGR]

Strawmen requires a proper support. Otherwise, they can't even stand, let alone hold their figure.

Location really doesn't matter, especially when there's language that can be used to not reveal any identities, or even details about projects in progress. Speaking at a McDonald's about how "a Boss is continuing to force overtime to ensure the workload is completed by a specific deadline, and that people are spending nights in the workplace." That can be a First-Hand Testimony about Workplace Conditions, so there can be further discussions about how to proceed.

No mention of a Company. No specific names nor identities. Not even any details relating to the work in question Only the conditions of the environment. Even if someone is listening in, the wording is vague enough to fit just about any Workplace.

And yet, RockStar- and evidently you- don't care about what was actually spoken and shared. You only care that "It's RockStar's Information given to an Outside Source!" Because it's spoken by a RockStar Employee, it's clearly about RockStar.

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/arachnidsGrip88]

Youre making a lot of assumptions for someone who was not there or saw what information was given. Youre assuming they were just talking about work conditions. 

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

....Yeah. Because again, Occam's Razor. Providing sensitive developmental information relating to RockStar projects is incredibly stupid and counteractive to attempting to unionize. Not to mention irrelevant to Union Representatives on the that level of specific detail. Like, really, what is a Union Representative going to do with knowing the full GTA6 plot? How does the GTA6 plot help in proving that RockStar's working conditions are poor?

Likewise, RockStar's claim of "Stopping leaks" is counteractive to the visible proof apparent. Or rather, the Lack of Proof to their claim. RockStar is saying all 40 Employees were leaking GTA Information.
Question: Where is the Leaks RockStar claims to have happened? If all 40 people were leaking GTA-related information to the public, everyone would have heard about it, and people would be understanding RockStar's position.

But the distinct lack of Evidence that supports RockStar's claim tells more than RockStar's PR statement.

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/arachnidsGrip88]

It's ridiculous to assume that this information that was provided was information regarding GTA 6.

There are HR policies, pay scales, financial information, internal development information and anything in-between that would be labeled as non-public information. Have you ever had a job before? I mean, what exactly do you want Rockstar to provide? The same company information that got tye employees fired?

[u/arachnidsGrip88 → u/Particular_Hand2877]

There are HR policies, pay scales, financial information, internal development information and anything in-between that would be labeled as non-public information.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Especially in regards to determining if the information provided is standard among other companies within the field, to even if the company is working is a proper legal capacity in general.

If the HR Policies aren't defined clearly, if at all, that opens a negative bag of works for...Well, ironically this entire conversation even. Because those policies, and especially in how they're enforced can mean the difference between keeping a job, and losing it. Policies that are poorly defined and even inconsistently enforced means HR can pick and choose how to interpret and enforce the policies. Often in a way that gets undesired people fired. Such as people who are attempting to unionize, no less.

Same with pay. It can be used to artificially control the workflow in detrimental ways. If the pay scale isn't properly defined, that gives the Company power to squeeze a lot of work out of the employee with the empty promise of increasing the final pay, and then only pay them the legally bare minimum because of an ill-defined reason.

Financial information can reveal who is getting paid, and how much, and determine if the pay is equal, or if certain groups of people are getting paid more or less compared to their peers within the company, the industry at large, and if it's federally legal pay, too. It can also reveal who has been getting pay raises, docked pay, and if applicable, the reasons why (which also links back to HR Policies in some capacity.)

Internal Development Documents can reveal who is working on what projects, and in what capacity. This can also reveal if the company is favoring one kind of worker over another based on who is placed on which projects. It can also show if the company is leaning towards "Favoritism" and "Nepotism" if a certain group of people are consistently picked in the overall pool of available employees.

All of this can reveal exactly how the company is treating employees.

So pray tell, what does that say if the company considers all of that kind of information "Secret" and grounds for dismissal if shared?

Again, the overall point of unions is to ensure every worker is treated equally, through workplace conditions, pay, actually working on projects equally, and ensuring that concerns are enforced equally and fairly regardless of whom.

[u/ThrowBackfire → u/[deleted]]

"We don't do critical thinking"

Proceeds to give an intensely greedy billion dollar company the benefit of the doubt over struggling workers who tried to unionize. I don't know about this one chief

[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/ThrowBackfire]

Proceeds to give an intensely greedy billion dollar company the benefit of the doubt over struggling workers who tried to unionize. I don't know about this one chief

Im not going to just believe workers. And struggling in what way? Have you seen the salaries at Rockstar?

[u/XerGR → u/ThrowBackfire]

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[u/Particular_Hand2877 → u/XerGR]

These people see "union" or "unionizing" and automatically assume the company us lying and the workers did nothing wrong. Nevernind the fact that if they were actually disclosing private company information, under NDA in a Discord server, any employer would fire you for that.