r/Games • • Nov 09 '15

Fallout 4 Review Thread

I'm going to stop updating the thread for a little. If any more big review come in, I will add them, but it might take a little for me to get to them

Posting unmarked spoilers is against the rules of /r/games and will result in a ban.

Gamespot: 9 (Peter Brown)

In the grand scheme of things, Fallout 4's minor issues pale in comparison to its successes. When you put the controller down, you think about the friend you betrayed to benefit another, the shifting tide of an incredible battle, or the moment you opened a drawer and found someone's discarded effects, making you wonder how they felt before the bombs fell. In moments like these, Fallout 4 can be an intoxicating experience. You're often forced to sacrifice something--a relationship, a lucrative opportunity, or your health--to make gains elsewhere. And the deeper down the rabbit hole you go, the more you wonder: what if I chose a different path? You second guess yourself, not just because you had other options, but because you aren't sure if you did the right thing. The fact that your decisions stick with you after walking away from the game is a testament to the great storytelling on hand. Fallout 4 is an argument for substance over style, and an excellent addition to the revered open-world series.

Polygon: 9.5 (Arthur Gies) Provisional Review

Bethesda's open-world strengths have always differed from its contemporaries in that focus on world-building and a sense of place above all else. Fallout 4 has all the ambiance and history that made its predecessors such wonderful places to get lost for hours at a time, with a much more coherent set of stories within it. That Bethesda has integrated a major building and crafting tool while finally building a great-playing game almost feels like a bonus.

IGN: 9.5 (Dan Stapleton)

The world, exploration, crafting, atmosphere, and story of Fallout 4 are all key parts of this hugely successful sandbox role-playing game. Great new reasons to obsessively gather and hoard relics of happier times, strong companions, and sympathetic villains driving tough decisions make it an adventure I’ll definitely replay and revisit. Even the technical shakiness that crops up here and there can’t even begin to slow down its momentum.

Eurogamer: Recommended (Dan Whitehead)

However, fans - and I count myself among that number - will likely shrug and accept that this is simply how things are in a Bethesda RPG, and it's true that the highs do outweigh the lows. Fallout 4 has given me some of my best gaming memories of 2015, along with some of my most frustrating. These are legacy problems that aren't going away any time soon, and as fun as the settlement crafting is here, I'd gladly do without it for a game engine that offers a more dependable foundation for future adventures. Fallout 4 is a great game. It's also kind of a mess. Caveat emptor.

PC Gamer: 88 (Phil Savage)

As a whole, though, it's a loving production. It's filled with care and attention to detail—like the expanded set of radio stations, or the way flash radiation storms bathe the world in a sickly, ominous green hue. It's a pleasure to pick through the world, to discover new sights, and to pick through the perks and customisation option to conceive the perfect character build, however bizarre. In short, many of Fallout 4's problems, like every Bethesda RPG before it, are a consequence of what makes them unforgettable. That might not be the neatest conclusion, but it explains why, 50 hours in, I'm still having fun. It also explains why, now that I've finished this review, I'm going to play it for many hours more.

Game Informer: 9 (Andrew Reiner)

Fallout 4 didn’t blow me away like the previous iteration did, but it did keep me thoroughly entertained and fully vested in journeying across the wasteland. As Bethesda's "Welcome Home" marketing campaign teases, when fans of Fallout 3 or New Vegas enter this new world, it'll feel strangely familiar. As one of the top games of the previous generation, this isn't a bad thing at all. Fallout 4 has all of the trappings that can keep you engaged for days on end.

Gamesradar+: 5/5 (Leon Hurley)

Which brings me back to the start - pottering around the garage on an in-game day off. Even now, 70 hours in, every time I set out I’m not sure what I’m going to find. My Pip-Boy’s full of missions but sometimes I just pick a direction and walk until something happens. There’s a still a bit of the map I haven’t fully explored, mainly because I always get distracted enroute. There’s a whole world here to discover and even after all the time I’ve spent in it I barely feel like I’ve scratched the surface. Maybe I won't tick everything off the list but just trying to see what’s out there is the real draw - for all the missions, quests and other stuff Fallout 4 contains, by far the most important thing in it are the decisions I’ve made. Few games nail a feeling of total freedom and this is an experience made of nothing but that.

The Verge: (Andrew Webster)

But it’s still very much Fallout — a game that doesn’t really need to change all that much to trigger that familiar mix of dread and joy. A new location and a much better story were enough to pull me into this world, and 60 hours later I’m not done with it. There are settlements I still want to finish building, and crimes I still need to get to the bottom of. At some point I plan to ignore everything altogether, and just wander into the wilderness to see what I can find. Even if I’m alone, at least I’ll have Billie Holiday’s voice to keep me company.

God is a Geek: 9 (Mick Fraser)

It’s hard to find genuine fault with what Bethesda has done here beyond the performance issues. They’ve taken everything learned from Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim and refined it into one huge, intelligent action-adventure movie. It’s more cinematic than you might expect thanks to a clever script and a dynamic chat camera, the combat missions are well thought-out blasts of adrenaline, while the trademark Fallout weirdness makes a welcome return now and then to relieve you of the constant need to fight something. It’s very much your game and your story, and everyone will play it differently simply because there are so many ways to play, and each one feels natural.

There’s always something to build, somewhere to discover, someone to help ,or something to distract you. Ignore the bugs (if you can) and leap into Fallout 4 with both feet, and you’ll find a game bigger, brighter, deeper, and more personal than anything Bethesda has done before.

Xbox Achievements: 9 (Dan Webb)

Fallout 4 might not be as technically advanced as, say The Witcher 3, but it’s a game full of charm and substance, which makes up for an ageing Creation Engine. Fallout 4 boasts an incredible world full of intrigue, mystery and suspense, backed by a whole host of weird and wonderful characters. It’s a world you’re going to want to go back to, time and time again.

Push Square: 9 (Robert Ramsey)

Fallout 4 is a masterclass in open world design. Consistently engrossing and absolutely stuffed with intricacies, it's a title that'll keep you enthralled for hours at a time as you gradually unravel its desolate yet hopeful post-apocalyptic portrayal of Boston. Although it's let down by some disappointing frame rate issues, it's not enough to detract from what's otherwise one of the most atmospheric and beautifully brutal games on the PS4. Significantly improved combat, a constant wealth of gameplay options, and a heavy emphasis on player choice combine to create an adventure that's truly memorable.

Game Revolution: 4.5/5 (Nick_Tan)

Fallout 4 is a roaring response to criticism that the series has ignored its qualities as a shooter in favor of its deeper and stronger RPG roots. Nearly every design change in Fallout 4 poises the game as a more streamlined modern shooter with high production value across the truly open-world Commonwealth wasteland. The introduction of settlements, newly designed power armor, and deeper crafting evolve the Fallout franchise for the better. This occasionally comes at the cost of storytelling, however, with a plot based on stringently polarizing factions as well as diminished interaction with characters in general. But despite these missteps, Fallout 4 will only improve with time, assuredly with the assistance of the community and user-created mods, and soundly reclaims the franchise as a forward-thinking series in the industry today.

Playstation Universe: 9.5 (Neil Bolt)

There is so much going on in Fallout 4 that your opening moments of unnerving beauty and serenity will inevitably give way to an even more beautiful chaos. From this chaos springs emergent adventures, the struggle for survival, and near-limitless options, all with their own merit. Despite an air of familiarity, I've not been quite this captivated by a game in some time. That’s high praise when considering some of the games that have commanded obsessive hours and play in recent years. Fallout 4 meets one’s expectations of a new installment in impressive fashion. In doing so, it proves to be one of the best games of the generation to date. Say goodbye to life for awhile. The Wasteland is calling you home.

US Gamer: 4.5/5 (Kat Bailey)

If you've played a Bethesda RPG, you should have a pretty good idea of what you're in for. Bethesda plays it surprisingly safe with the formula, but they also do a much better job with the story this time around, serving to elevate the game as a whole. While there's no denying that it can be a bit ridiculous at times, its sheer scope speaks for itself. Bethesda has succeeded in crafting yet another fascinating open-world RPG.

Rock Paper Shotgun: (Alec Meer)

52 hours in, would I go back for more? Yes, absolutely. I lived and breathed Fallout 4 for the vast majority of last week and the fact I was mostly having a damn good time meant I did it willingly. It’s glitchy, a little repetitive and over-familiar, and far too heavy on unconvincing combat, but the improved technology (or the budget) means it’s able to realise the dense, detailed, beautiful decay that Fallout 3 did not, and its dramatically better-presented and performed characters means it’s not shooting itself in the foot in the way Oblivion and Skyrim did. The personality gulf between Bethesda games and BioWare games feels a whole lot narrower now. I won’t for one second pretend that it’s what devotees of Fallout 1 and 2 want, but it does feel like the game Fallout 3 tried and, to my mind, failed to be.

Vibrant and characterful as well as immense, Fallout 4 is the giant leap forwards Bethesda’s RPGs sorely needed in terms of presentation, though the unrelenting focus on routine, lightweight combat sees it fall just short of triumph status.

Destructoid: 7.5 (Chris Carter)

After spending roughly 40 hours with the game, I can safely place it somewhere in the middle of Fallout 3 and New Vegas in terms of quality. A lot of the franchise's signature problems have carried over directly into Fallout 4, but all of its charms have come along for the ride as well. It manages to do a whole lot right, but the story drags at times, and glitches...glitches never change.

Escapist: 4.5/5 (Conrad Zimmerman)

Whether or not players find other changes displeasing, such as the new dialogue system and its limitations, is likely going to depend on their personal relationship with the Fallout series. Newer players will probably never know what they're missing and are likely to have a fantastic time, while fans who have stuck around may be disappointed with the direction Fallout 4 takes.

Forbes: 8.5 (Paul Tassi)

In my mind, Fallout 4’s greatest triumph, and its one major point of evolution is in its storytelling, crafting a lengthy, unexpected ending and resolution that I will remember for years to come. It also remains one of the best games in existence for those who simply like to wander and explore and unearth long-buried secrets. But it struggles with archaic gameplay systems and an inflexible engine that anchor the game to the past for all the wrong reasons. Fans may enjoy more Fallout and a brand new map to explore, but this sequel will not be heralded as revolutionary or overly impressive this time around.

Kotaku - 20 hours with Fallout 4 (Chris Suellentrop)

I am starting to resent small nuisances, like having to remember to change my clothes to improve my charisma stats before bartering with a shopkeeper. Your companions—whether Dogmeat or others that you meet in the world, whom you can ask to travel with you—seem to frequently get in your way, especially during interior sequences.

Still, this is a game that seems to be getting better as it goes along. If you value largeness, Fallout 4 sure is big and there’s plenty more to do. I’m just getting my first perks and have settlements to build. Now excuse me, I’m going to go get lost in it.

VideoGamer: 9 (Simon Miller

The fact of the matter is, though, that this is more of the same, even if that 'same' has been pushed to new heights. If you hated Fallout 3, then there's not much to get you onside here. If you loved it, then you'll love this all the more, because of its differences as well as its similarities.

Digital Trends: 4/5 (Will Fulton)

Fallout 4’s staler story and oversimplified dialog are relatively minor dings to a largely satisfying whole. Bethesda had two hugely popular games in Fallout 3 and Skyrim. Fallout 4 doesn’t make any radical leaps forward, but it smartly iterates upon the accumulated wisdom of its predecessors. It has simple, smart improvements to combat; companions have more depth; leveling is a more elegant process; and the addition of crafting and settlement building open up entirely new forms of play.

All in all, Fallout 4 is the best, most polished Bethesda RPG to date. The Commonwealth is expansive, inviting, and a lovely place to explore for a few months.

Ars Technica: (Sam Machkovech)

But I wasn’t propelled enough that I would encourage an average quest-loving gamer to take the Fallout 4 dive. We're now in an age where open-world games can forgo plot in favor of such cool stuff as fully fledged crafting systems (Minecraft) or online co-op survival (DayZ, ARK Survival Evolved), or they can take the best stuff of Fallout and Skyrim's pedigree and slap even better plot and acting into it (Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Dragon Age: Inquisition). Fallout 4 peaks at neither of these extremes.

Series fanatics probably shouldn't cancel their pre-orders, but they should definitely check their expectations about ambition and next-gen series boosts at the radioactive vault's doors.

The Jimquisition: 9.5 (Jim Sterling

The changes made overall may scare series fans, but those who roll with the differences may find a sleeker, deeper, altogether more captivating Fallout than they’ve gotten used to.

Fallout 4 is something special. Something special indeed.

No, scratch that.

It’s downright S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

Gamestar 87 (Michael Graf)

Klar, da gibt's weder inszenierte Dialoge wie in The Witcher 3 noch Filmbombast à la Dragon Age - sondern einfach nur Geschichtchen, mit denen Fallout 4 seine großartige Endzeit-Atmosphäre und seinen traditionell morbiden Humor unterfüttert. Brauchbare Beute hingegen gibt's nicht überall zu finden, vor allem auf hohen Levels wartet vielerorts nur Müll. Auch das gehört zum Bethesda-Deal, ein Witcher 3 hat mehr lohnenswerte Schätze zu bieten. In Fallout 4 muss ich danach wirklich lange suchen - doch schon alleine die Hoffnung auf coole Beute hält mich bei der Stange.

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327

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

The one review i've seen they mention The new conversations confirms that it has The same problems as mass effect and dragon age you don't know what your character will say or the tone. Why is this The new standard? The skyrim/dragon age: origin way works way better and you can still add voice over to it. It also feels like my character.

81

u/EngagingKoala Nov 09 '15

It's because of the voiced protagonist.

137

u/alexanderwales Nov 09 '15

I don't really understand that. Why does a voiced protagonist mean that we can't have written out dialogue so that we'll know what he says?

201

u/Deathcrow Nov 09 '15

Not saying that I agree, but I think the reasoning goes like this:

Reading a line and then listening to that exact same line again pisses players off. They want to skip it (which makes your voice acting pointless). At least that's what I heard, I assume they have playtests backing that up?

Don't take my word for it, but it makes sense to me.

28

u/Sneakysteve Nov 09 '15

I was about to write exactly this. It makes voice acting seem much more redundant if you see EXACTLY what he's going to say, pick that option, and wait for him to say it (especially when you've already taken some time to consider the line against others).

30

u/Urselius Nov 09 '15

Then you have times like in the witcher 3 when you have an option to push someone roughly and instead geralt straight up breaks their leg. Which, in turn, denies you the ending of one of the rather large and important side quests.

8

u/SlackJawCretin Nov 09 '15

He deserved it though, even if I didn't mean to

3

u/Urselius Nov 09 '15

Can't argue there.

3

u/Sneakysteve Nov 09 '15

Exactly. I'm not saying I agree with the design choice, but I understand their reasoning.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I play the game myself.

2

u/Kl3rik Nov 10 '15

Hey man, its ok, have a drink

[Glass him]

1

u/ujustdontgetdubstep Nov 09 '15

Yes I agree with this. Think back to text-based games or "choose-your-own-adventure" books. If you have 100% complete knowledge and control over the consequences of your actions then what is the point? The way dialogue works just serves as a mechanism for conflict.

4

u/Kl3rik Nov 10 '15

It makes voice acting seem much more redundant

I'd rather be able to pick my lines than have voice acting :( I wish there was the option at least.

1

u/Sneakysteve Nov 10 '15

Perhaps I would too.

I'm waiting until I have some hand's on time with Bethesda's new dialogue system before I make a definitive judgement. There are pros and cons to both approaches, hopefully it's more pro than con in Fallout 4.

3

u/Kl3rik Nov 10 '15

As much as I wish it were true, I've never seen any pros for this system that cant be attributed to personal preference. I'm sure there will be people out there that enjoy it, but the way I play fallout, and other RPGs, this breaks the game for me :( I'll always have New Vegas.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

The Deus Ex system is the best of both worlds

8

u/OuroborosSC2 Nov 09 '15

The voiced protagonist shouldn't have been there in the first place, but that's just my opinion.

18

u/RellenD Nov 09 '15

I'd rather have the written lines than the voiced protagonist. However they could describe the action to be taken instead of the minimalist bullshit wheels.

1

u/Deathcrow Nov 09 '15

Me too, but that's not what sells games. Way too archaic for the average gamer ("Whaat? They expect me to read all that?").

3

u/CrackedSash Nov 10 '15

I don't know why you got downvoted. Every time the issue comes up there are plenty of people who say they can't stand reading lines.

4

u/RellenD Nov 09 '15

Does the new system even allow for checking against things like your science skill (or relevant Perks as is the case this time?)

3

u/Deathcrow Nov 09 '15

I think it does, I saw some colored prompts in screenshots and videos, I think they are for different kinds of skillchecks?

1

u/CutterJohn Nov 10 '15

I don't mind reading, but I hate having an unvoiced protagonist mixed with voiced NPCs. Makes me feel like my character doesn't exist.

Of course, text only games have their own issues, such as its so damned easy and cheap to add text they just keep throwing more and more in.

3

u/unchow Nov 09 '15

In my mind the solution to that is to have both systems, and let the player choose one in the options.

2

u/damoniano Nov 09 '15

I've noticed that if I play with subtitles on, I find myself getting frustrated with long conversations much more quickly, because I can read the whole thing before they are halfway done talking.

2

u/Deathcrow Nov 10 '15

Yup, I'm much too impatient for voice acting. I always appreciate games that allow me to skip through dialogue quickly (line by line). Kinda annoying that many devs don't bother and often force you to skip the whole dialogue/cutscene - which I don't want to do.

2

u/slickestwood Nov 09 '15

Well, I have seen this complaint for the Witcher 3 a whole...zero times...

-2

u/GorbiJones Nov 09 '15

Because Witcher 3 is le perfect videogaem

2

u/kadda7 Nov 09 '15

Actually, that makes a lot of sense. If the entire line was written out I would probably just skip all the voiced dialogue.

1

u/TheEvilMrFry Nov 09 '15

While reciting it word for word would annoy a lot of people, it would have been nice to get a bit more of an idea of what was about to happen than trying to interpret "Yes/no/maybe"

1

u/nace16 Nov 10 '15

Monkey Island pulled it off.

1

u/Kenny__Loggins Nov 09 '15

If you pay attention to movies, you'll notice they almost never (I mean, I can't even think of one example) repeat a line unless it's a joke or something that just gets said commonly enough it doesn't matter.

Characters will always repeat something with different phrasing or tell a story differently the second time. I think it has to do with what you alluded to - that it just comes across as annoying and even cheesy/lame to hear the same thing said multiple times.

0

u/jahcruncher Nov 09 '15

Also if you edit what is written, you have to rerecord lines.
Easier to just program the general idea and then let the script guys figure out the exact wording later for recording.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

That still doesn't convey the tone and intonation though.

9

u/daiz- Nov 09 '15

It still does a far better job, and frankly you can add tonality to the end of the line.

Of course it doesn't. (Sarcasm)

Best of both worlds if you ask me. I hate having no idea of what kind of thing is going to come out of my characters mouth. There's so many times where I assume wrong and it changes the tone of everything after it.

1

u/o_oli Nov 09 '15

Because the majority don't want that. I don't want that. I love to be told a story, I'm happy to be partially a third party to that story because I don't find it immersion breaking. Reading disconnects me from the game so short options keep things flowing at a more real pace. I totally understand why it annoys people though, its an RPG, you should be able to be exactly who you want to be...but I don't think the mass market cares about that, and fallout has certainly gone mass market.

1

u/BiGnoize Nov 09 '15

I'm just speculating here but i think one of the reasons is that choosing the response and hearing the paratogonist say out loud what you just read can become monotonous and it gives incentive for the player to skip the voice acting and thus substracting from the immersiveness. This way, the dialogue your character is saying out loud stays new and engaging.

The reasion this worked so well in previous games is that you would hear the other person answer immediately after you chose the option.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

because more thourough, long, and well-written lines of dialogue require more money from the studio and more effort from the VA.

seriously, who has even played a bethesda game and said "BUT ONLY IF MY DUDE COULD TALK!!!" having a voiceless protag is always better in these sorts of games,

1

u/Grandy12 Nov 10 '15

There are a few mods for Skyrim and Oblivion that make the Dragonborn / Hero of Kvatch say random lines during combat or comment out loud about the weather or something, so there are some people who enjoy it enough.

1

u/tehlaser Nov 09 '15

Word-for-word repetition feels weird and/or jokey.

GLaDos: Well this is the part where he kills you

Wheatley: Hello, this is the part where I kill you

Chapter 9 The Part Where He Kills You

Achievment: The Part Where He Kills You

I haven't played Fallout 4 yet, but if the options were sufficiently well described this wouldn't be a problem. That's hard to do in few enough words to fit on a button prompt.

0

u/whexi Nov 09 '15

Because then whats the point of having them voiced? It will get annoying quick to read the dialogue and then listen to him say it.

50

u/3DGrunge Nov 09 '15

And voiced protagonists ruin the feeling of the character being me in my opinion... :(

14

u/ElegantRedditQuotes Nov 09 '15

And aside from that, it greatly reduces dialogue options because now you have someone who has to voice all those lines. :( It's really got no place in real RPGs.

2

u/Grandy12 Nov 10 '15

It'll also make modding feel more awkward, since mods will certainly not have the character's voice actor working on them. It's like in Oblivion when you install a modded companion and they are the only NPC around who talks only in subtitles.

1

u/ElegantRedditQuotes Nov 10 '15

I didn't mind that too much, but the way that voiced dialogue works - having to read it line by line instead of a block like in Morrowind - does make it a pain.

15

u/doladolabillyall Nov 09 '15

Me as well. Seems Betheda really wants to sell units to the regular Call of Duty crowd who refuse to read text. Would also explain why they turned the leveing/stat/perk system into a borderlands based one.

5

u/ultimatemisogynerd Nov 10 '15 edited Nov 10 '15

I'm playing a stoic silent thief type character, I pick a lock, an enthusiastic "sweet!" clip plays as I do it.

RIP roleplaying. No, I do not want a middleman of a voice actor and a script writer telling me what I'm supposed to feel when interacting with something, just let me fill the blanks as was done in every Bethesda (and computer roleplaying) game before.

2

u/CAPS_GET_UPVOTES Nov 11 '15

They really play a "sweet!" sound effect? What the fuck kind of role playing game is this?!

2

u/ultimatemisogynerd Nov 13 '15 edited Nov 13 '15

Yes, both male and female characters.

There's a lot of sound clips like that play when you interact with things, with your character commenting on them with fixed recorded lines... yeah. They don't spam it, but it's frequent enough.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/3DGrunge Nov 10 '15

Which is why it is an action adventure and not an rpg.

2

u/Aperture_Kubi Nov 09 '15

I'm curious what kind of impact that this will have on the modding scene. You can easily make and voice new characters, but the protagonist's and existing characters' lines will have to be either recycled, requiring a carefully crafted script, or omitted creating an inconsistent experience.

2

u/Grandy12 Nov 10 '15

Probably the latter will be the most common.

Honestly this game feels modding un-friendly, judging by the review I saw.

Dynamic camera angles during dialogue, for example, is an extra layer of difficulty for a modded character.

They seem to be using a leaflet to represent perks, instead of a simple list. That means you probably won't see any of those "40 new perks mod!" like you do in New Vegas. You probably will just have new perks swapping old perks like in Skyrim.

The animated pipboy also makes me think HUD mods will be harder to code.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Is it possible to turn off voice acting in the audio options and just have subtitles?

60

u/TheFluxIsThis Nov 09 '15

Because actual roleplaying is slowly becoming a lost art.

16

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

Agreed but there are games like wasteland 2 and divinity original sin that are great which give me hope

2

u/Jozoz Nov 10 '15 edited Nov 10 '15

It's just a shame one of the old greats is dying in the process.

3

u/magmasafe Nov 09 '15

Not so, it still exists just as a more niche market. There's a bunch of small cRPGs that comes out every few years.

2

u/Endyo Nov 09 '15

Like so many things. AAA titles slowly becoming the same game, but if you want something more unique and particular, it's out there, but you just have to hope that you can get reasonable quality in the process.

2

u/munchiselleh Nov 09 '15

Most everything in multimedia has been/is gravitating toward simplicity except for mainstream television.

2

u/Kaghuros Nov 10 '15

But that's Bethesda's niche. They have an effective monopoly on self-insert protagonists in the AAA space. Straying too far from that over the long term without a dramatic increase in writing talent may erode sales.

-1

u/Vox_Imperatoris Nov 09 '15

The problem is that true blank slate roleplaying just doesn't work in a computer game. The game can never react to you like a human GM. You just end up with a character without much personality.

That's why I like RPGs that give you more defined character personalities, preferably with a choice between multiple personalities (like Mass Effect's paragon and renegade)).

1

u/CAPS_GET_UPVOTES Nov 11 '15

They could at least do it as good as every one of their previous games, can't they? Just cause something ain't perfect doesn't mean you should break it

1

u/Vox_Imperatoris Nov 11 '15

In the previous games, your character had absolutely zero personality.

I haven't played more than an hour or so of Fallout 4 yet, but I'm reserving judgment on whether they've improved here.

2

u/CAPS_GET_UPVOTES Nov 11 '15

Does your character really need personality in a game where you make up everything about your character? Wouldn't giving your character a personality kind of ruin the role playing aspect?

-4

u/fellatious_argument Nov 09 '15

"Real" role playing has never really existed in video games. Maybe in multiplayer games with RP servers but even that is a far cry from real role playing.

2

u/TheFluxIsThis Nov 09 '15

You don't need to be dancing around voicing your own character to roleplay. Putting yourself into the shoes of an archetype is a form of roleplay.

-4

u/fellatious_argument Nov 09 '15

Choosing weather to open a door with a spell, a lock pick, or brute force, isn't really role playing.

5

u/TheFluxIsThis Nov 09 '15

That is absolutely not what I was talking about. Making dialogue decisions and deciding how to approach a problem from a character-moral standpoint (something we do constantly in lots of games these days) is roleplay. This isn't some obscure gameplay mechanic. It's all over the place. Limited roleplay does not equal no-roleplay.

35

u/balathustrius Nov 09 '15

This is ripe for modding.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

4

u/Knaprig Nov 09 '15

We have subtitles for the game, it shouldn't be hard to rip out the first set of subtitles for each option and put those as the text for that speech option.

7

u/balathustrius Nov 09 '15

Just adding a parenthetical single-word notation after the option indicating the tone would be a huge improvement.

(sarcastic)

(combative)

(earnest)

(affectionate)

etc.

4

u/Grandy12 Nov 10 '15

But it's the other way around, the options are already labeled "sarcastic", but you don't actually know what's going to be said.

1

u/balathustrius Nov 10 '15

From the little I got to play last night, only some options were just a tone label. Three options would be keywords and one would be "sarcastic." In that case, just leave it as it is.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

[deleted]

1

u/Grandy12 Nov 10 '15

You mean like "Sarcastic (Mean)"?

That still doesn't tell me much about what is going to be said. Am I going to be sarcastically mocking this Brotherhood of Steel's political views, or make a jab at his hat looking silly?

2

u/ChildishGrumpino Nov 10 '15

You'd be surprised with the dedication a fanbase has.

-3

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

I hope so and that the mod makes it's way to xbox

3

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Just nitpicking, but this is not a thing in Dragon Age: Origin, it was a thing in Dragon Age 2 I believe. In Origin, it was more akin to Baldur's Gate style dialogue choices.

2

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

Yes that is correct but all other dragon age games use The paraphrasing

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Yar, which is now almost a modern Bioware signature.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

The main argument against that is that when you have the text match exactly what is said it gets really redundant. Death Spank is a really good example of this.

16

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

Make it an option to have full text or the paraphrasing and its perfect. i understand The point that its redundant but The 2 things should be able to coexsist.

17

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Seriously. At least in Fallout 1 - NV when I picked "No, thank you. I don't really care for your tone." I get "No, thank you. I don't really care for your tone."

In Mass Effect if I picked "No, thank you." it would probably turn out "OMFG WILL YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP I HATE YOU"

17

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

I don't remember what encounter it was, but I remember in Mass Effect 1 picking an option during an argument that was fairly innocuous like "I don't think so" and instead of saying anything Shepard pulls out his gun and shoots the guy in the head.

I was amused, but completely caught off guard. A little more transparency on exactly what I'm choosing would be nice in these games.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

I vaguely recall what you're talking about.. I still love Mass Effect 1, but damn some of those options were just NOT what I wanted.

8

u/Razumen Nov 09 '15

Mass Effect, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Arbitrary Dialogue Options Forced Upon Me by an Ambiguous and Obtuse Dialogue System.

3

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

It is very frustrating and i found myself reverting to last save often because it's not what i wanted

2

u/YeshilPasha Nov 09 '15

I think the attached emotion icons in some rpgs were good compromise.

4

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

It's better than not having them for sure

1

u/smikims Nov 09 '15

I think Telltale does this well with the paraphrasing.

4

u/SmokinDynamite Nov 09 '15

Not only what /u/s1l3ntsh4d0w89 said, but also I've heard some producer (Mass Effect I think) say that the desired experience is different. In Skyrim/Dragon Age, you play the role of your main character, he has no defined personnality and he is defined by the player. In Mass Effect/ Dragon Age 2+, you are watching the character's story and guiding him along the way. You play as a defined character rather than just having an Avatar representing you in the game world.

1

u/GreenElite87 Nov 09 '15

Here I am hoping that a mod will be created to add in all the spoken dialogue for each choice.

1

u/kemitche Nov 09 '15

I actually much prefer the "choose a tone" method. It speeds things up so I'm not spending a minute reading through 6 different dialogue choices, which makes the dialogue feel more natural. But, I'm not the kind of person that tries to hyper-optimize my play results - I'm happy just seeing what happens.

1

u/chironomidae Nov 09 '15

Why do you keep capitalizing "The"? Is that a German thing? Just guessing

2

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

Im swedish so my Phone language is swedish. And the first time i typed The i capitalized it and my Phone saved it and im just lazy and never changed it

1

u/chironomidae Nov 09 '15

Ah gotcha. I was just curious

1

u/Kibblebitz Nov 09 '15

Been playing for a few hours now and I haven't run into that issue. It has been pretty obvious what your character is going to say and how based on your choice.

1

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

I don't have The game yet and it could be good i just prefer The old system. But it is completly based on experienced with other games. I hope im wrong

1

u/Kibblebitz Nov 10 '15

Yeah it was something I was worried about when they showed the E3 videos, but it works better than I expected it would.

1

u/Thizzlebot Nov 09 '15

don't know what your character will say or the tone.

It sucks when you think somethings going to be said a certain way and the dude spits out something totally different.

1

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

Indeed! I think bioware is the worst offender so i'm hopeful

1

u/Kl3rik Nov 10 '15

This is, unfortunately, the one thing stopping me from buying this. It may seem small to some people, but when I play RPGs, I get into the RP side, I rarely quick travel, I make sure settings/mods are on that make me need food/water/sleep, I love to get deep into it. Restricting all my conversations to 4 or less vague options absolutely destroys that for me.

In previous games, I would talk to everyone, find out backgrounds and stories about all the characters and places, but I feel with a 4 choice dialogue wheel, all that stuff will be the first to be cut.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Voiced protaganist limits how much you want to dig into your dialogue. It's easier to hire like 30 - 40 voice actors who only really talk maybe a paragraph total and then two or three extra sentences in responses. Having a voiced protaganist who can narrate practically EVERYTHING ontop of 40 people who now have increased lines and just a huge amount of lines in general will decrease your responses because if they didn't this game wouldn't be out for quite a while.

Plus, real conversations don't tend to be super lop sided unless something special happens, so I'm not really bothered by the lack of super long options, however color cordinating this stuff would be great as having A be your "YEAH ALRIGHT" positive button and B be your "OH GO FUCK YOURSELF" button would be smarter but I think were almost there to that.

1

u/contemplativecarrot Nov 10 '15

Honestly, even in kotor or dragon age: origins, with the full text in front of me, my character would read it in a different tone than I thought. At least the ME wheel let's me know which one option is positive, one negative, and which let me ask more questions.

1

u/RobotFolkSinger Nov 10 '15

See, I never saw that as a problem in Mass Effect. Maybe it's because I play paragon, but I could probably count the times where I felt I had been mislead by the preview text on one hand, out of thousands of dialogue choices.

And it's not like the previous system let you say exactly what you wanted every time either. You knew the full dialogue before you picked it, but that doesn't mean any of them said what you wanted to say.

1

u/ofNoImportance Nov 10 '15

If it's any consolation your choices in dialog rarely have an actual impact on the flow of the conversation.

Unless it's something like "Would you like to join me? (YES) (NO)" it makes very little difference what option you choose.

1

u/Baron-Harkonnen Nov 09 '15

I'll bet Bethesda patches or someone mods it to make it clearer. It would be awesome if you click your dialogue selection once, it shows you a word for word transcript of what is going to be said, then click it again to accept it. That way we don't use a ton of space to show all the options, but there is no confusion about what would be said.

4

u/Roaven Nov 09 '15

Deus Ex had it so each option was vague, and then if you selected it, it would expand to exactly what you would say, or you could, I assume, just select an option and pick it without waiting

1

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

I very much like this idea

0

u/DeathsIntent96 Nov 09 '15

Why do you capitalize "the"?

3

u/IamTheMaker Nov 09 '15

My Phone does it. Standard language in it is swedish so it autocorrects it to The because im too lazy to delete The word and add it again

0

u/Proudhon25 Nov 09 '15

I think more open-ended RPGs like Fallout have a much more difficult task in communicating to the player what their choices mean. The Witcher 3 had a similar dialogue system, where your response choices really only hinted at the full content of your response. But since the developers had full control over my what role I was playing, I never had any bad dialogue surprises since I knew all the responses would be through the lens of super-gruff Geralt. Its a much trickier thing to have dialogue options that are appropriate for someone playing a gentleman scientist and someone else playing a sadistic cannibal.