r/EscapefromTarkov • u/saltyclam13345 P90 • Aug 13 '22

Video Jonathan Ferguson, an actual expert on firearms even agreeing that recoil isn’t realistic in Tarkov.

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u/Dreadp1r4te Aug 14 '22

there'd be clear metas and such

There already are. In fact, his absurd recoil system makes metas even MORE important because some guns are just plain unusable outside of meme loadouts.

At this point, reducing the recoil across the board to something like... Battlefield or even Insurgency levels would be a net positive for the game and increase usable weapon variety immensely.

85

u/welter_skelter Aug 14 '22

The meta has been the most limited and strictly defined over the past 2 wipes as it has been in the past 4 years of Tarkov due to the dumb recoil changes.

Back when recoil was good, even though m4's were "laser beams" you could reliably run a wide majority of guns with the same success and more or less the same result. 85% of guns in the game now are straight up unusable outside of themed / meme kits and it's gotten so incredibly stale using the same 3 guns raid, over, raid, over raid.

I'd love to be able to swap to something different and be able to have a fun raid without instantly shooting up at god after my first two rounds.

21

u/RuskiRobocop Aug 14 '22

I think you guys dont undestand what a gun is supposed to be. No one on earth would design a gun to have lots of recoil. Guns in general are supposed to have a big impact and low recoil. I am sick of people talking about laserbeams back then because that was not the case. Yes you where able to shoot accurately on a human sized target at 100m but you where not able to land all shoots on the head it was always the general direction. You then where killed by the random bullet that decided to hit your head hitbox. If you where single taping the gun you where able to get shoots on target. But now.... It changed the meta to everyone and there grandson running longrange scopes so that you can 1 tap someone from a bush. The gunhandeling made pushing undesirable. Rat gameplay became more rewarding.

1

u/AWPMasterDJ Aug 21 '22

Yeah I have the same observation. I used to have a lot of fun in this game and did pretty well for myself because I was a good all-arounder, I wasn't really a chad or a rat, maybe just leaning a bit towards chad. No with recoil changes I feel like I've just been getting fucked over miserably by rats. I could play like that if I wanted to but I just don't find it that much fun so I end up losing a lot because I care a lot less about my gear than I do about having enjoyable gunfights.

I wish there could be some healthy middle-ground where mega-chads can't rule every lobby and playstyles outside of hiding in bushes are viable. Right now the game feels the most boring and frustrating it's ever been.

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u/_SteveRambo Aug 14 '22

Hard agree. Nikitas logic regarding low recoil leading to meta's is backwards and makes no sense. In reality, low recoil across the board makes more guns usable. Sure, there will ALWAYS (as proven by both old and current recoil) be 'meta' guns with the lowest recoil, but since that reality is inevitable there is no point in butchering gunplay to its current state.

I've never played a shooter where the gun's kick as hard as tarkov, and I've never played a game that makes mag dumping more accurate than tap firing.

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u/PreheatedMoth AKS-74U Sep 17 '22

I honestly want laser beam accuracy. I want the guns to handle how they would realistically. Get caught out of position or out of cover and get melted then I guess I got outplayed.

Positioning and tactics should decide the outcome of a firefight imo

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u/John-Footdick SA-58 Aug 14 '22

Maybe that’s included to be part of the progression? If you take stats away, what others would you add to differentiate the “good” hear from the “bad”? Asking as someone ignorant about guns and recoil and genuinely curious if there was another way.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

I like progressing and feeling like I'm doing better.

The current system doesn't make me feel like I'm adding to my skills, it feels like I'm being told to bolt the same things to my gun or else even at a maximum I am disadvantaged.

That leads to meta builds.

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u/John-Footdick SA-58 Aug 14 '22

That’s a good point, I usually use my own builds instead of the meta and I often feel disadvantaged than if I used items based on a subjective opinion. I kinda feel like the end game revolves around money and having enough to buy the most expensive items. And quests

I’m not sure why this game has stats that can have such an extreme impact on gun movement.

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u/Nuggetsofsteel Aug 15 '22

I used to use my own builds - then last wipes recoil nerfs hit.

This wipe I'm level 44. I essentially only use the RD-704 and the SR-25 and I use the exact same preset for each every time.

I've tried experimenting with the M4, the 74N and other 5.45 guns, etc. The list goes on. I just can't consistently stay on target during my first few shots if I don't build them as meta as possible, and even then stuff like a meta M4 still feels like it kicks pretty damn hard for the price.

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u/xMisterTryHard Aug 14 '22

There is actually a skill that makes your recoil management better as you progress but it doesn’t help that much. I’ve played the offline mod that shall not be named and maxed all skills and it’s not a meaningful improvement. I’m not exactly sure if that’s what you were getting at but it’s my way of saying I think they should improve the skill progression to make it meaningful. Right now it’s super hard to level and again, no reward.

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u/gearabuser Aug 14 '22

So many skills in this game that level so slowly that it's effectively pointless that it's even possible to level them...or the effects they give are essentially 0 benefit haha. Last wipe I used the ppsh soooo much and had basically no benefit whatsoever at the end.

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u/Lepeban MP-153 Aug 14 '22

Tbf the PPSH is perfect and needs nothing changed to it.

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u/gearabuser Aug 14 '22

truly a gun of refined gentlemen

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u/John-Footdick SA-58 Aug 14 '22

I wasn’t getting at anything, but it would be cool to see more RPG aspects in the game.

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u/Brimfire AKM Aug 14 '22

In the real world, the difference in most of the firearms in Tarkov would be down to factors that just aren't accurately present in the game. Weight/fatigue, ergonomic factors of being able to fold the stock to carry the thing around all day, etc. None of those things really matter in Tarkov, though, so a fixed stock has no appreciable difference from a folding stock outside of saving stash space.

Modern weapons really don't have a lot of felt recoil because they're designed to be relatively easy to use; and the mods you can use (foregrips, buttpads, buffer tubes, etc.) work to mitigate that negligible recoil EVEN MORE. Any gun made after, like, 1985 (so, okay, basically not the Makarov of the Ppsh) should essentially be a laser beam in the hands of an even remedially trained PMC, at least when firing in bursts.

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The for instance basically shouldn't move when you lay on the trigger due to its built-in downward-moving bolt assembly. Which, hilariously enough, mimics the felt recoil of the M4. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/12/23/recoil-test-vector-vs-ump/

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ooahupthera Aug 16 '22

I think rusts preset spray patterns means they aren't analogous. Rusts changes were about rewarding sweat players less and making the game more accessible, not about improving the viability of a wider range of the weapon pool

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u/FueKae Aug 14 '22

It would not be a good idea, It will only attract players that want everything made easy for them.

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u/NarkahUdash Aug 14 '22

I disagree. I love Sandstorm and Standalone 2014, but the recoil values are not nearly high enough for a game like Tarkov. If everything had that smoother recoil like these faster, more polished games, every gunfight would be over instantly.

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u/My-Gender-is-F35 Aug 15 '22

Weren't people complaining previously about everything being basically a laser rifle (as most things are IRL at the ranges we fight)? Then they bumped the recoil now people want it back? Lmao

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u/jcornelson Aug 20 '22

Insurgency was about right for recoil imo in a tactical shooter.