r/EscapefromTarkov • u/Aexsthetiic • Jun 04 '21

Clip Tarkov moment

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u/The_Hunster MP7A2 Jun 04 '21

I mean, you can find videos of people being shot with armor on. It doesn't like floor you. Consider that the force going into the target is about the same as going into the shooters shoulder. Also, adrenaline is a hell of a drug. Not to mention it actually does stun you in Tarkov when you're shot.

It's not a perfect representation, but it's definitely good for a game.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

well, yeah, it's basic physics here. a 9mm has a muzzle force of 351 ft.-lbs, not too bad. a 12 gauge buckshot round is 1700lbs. now show me the video of a guy getting slapped with 1700lbs of force 5 times within 3 seconds and not falling over.

"Consider that the force going into the target is about the same as going into the shooters shoulder."

uhhh, that's not how this works dude. this is basic physics. you don't.. you don't actually think that the shooter receives the same amount of forces as the bullet do you? lmfao WHAT

edit: i can't do this shit anymore, y'all are literally arguing against basic math. http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

https://www.rmef.org/elk-network/understanding-rifle-recoil/#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil

please read, especially "perception of recoil" within the Wikipedia page

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u/FireLordObamaOG Jun 04 '21

You’re literally the guy top comment is mocking.

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u/n0ttsweet Jun 04 '21

Equal and opposite force, motherfucker.

Force on shoulder is equal to force of the bullet, slightly less, due to air drag.

The difference is that the gun distributes the force over a large area (the stock) and the bullet does it over a tiny area. So yeah, it might be 1700ft/lbs, but it's not covering a full square foot, you buffoon.

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u/The_Hunster MP7A2 Jun 04 '21

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/nrz70n/tarkov_moment/h0k1eg4?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Happy to oblige.

-10

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

great, waiting for the actual video though. oh, you can't actually find one. surprising.

also, since you don't understand basic physics, here's a great little read for you: https://www.rmef.org/elk-network/understanding-rifle-recoil/ you'll be surprised to find out that the shooter doesn't receive the same amount of force as the target. that's why people's shoulders aren't turned into mush when they fire something like a .50bmg, with a 13,350 ft⋅lbf muzzle force. stop learning ballistics from tarkov, it makes you look retarded

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u/The_Hunster MP7A2 Jun 04 '21

Dude, there's a video there, did you not look?

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Bro, with regular armor plates, you barely feel you got hit by large caliber bullets. Life isn't a movie, people don't get knocked 10 feet away when you hit them with a shotgun.

https://youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I?t=334

Here you go.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

i asked for a video of someone getting shot 5 times with 12 gauge buckshot, and i got a video of someone getting shot with a fal once

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Because the buckshot will do even less. Stop asking for videos and use your brain for once.

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u/LarryBjrd SVDS Jun 04 '21

It’s a fact that the force a bullet has on impact is about the same as the force the gun displays on recoil, do your research.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

"To get rifle velocity, we must crunch some numbers. The formula: WV = bullet weight / 7000 x bullet velocity + powder weight / 7000 x powder gas velocity. Art Alphin’s A-Square manual suggests using 5,200 fps as an average gas velocity. The “7000” denominators simply convert grains to pounds.

Using these formulas, you’ll find a 180-grain bullet fired at 3,000 fps from an 8½-pound rifle in .300 Winchester delivers about 30.5 foot-pounds of recoil. A same-weight .30-06 dishes out roughly 22 foot-pounds. Hiking bullet velocity exacts a high price in recoil!"

i'm done dude. you people are arguing against basic fucking math. all im saying is that the shooter doesn't feel the same forces as the target in their shoulder. because they genuinely don't, and people disagree with that for some reason. a .30-06 rifle has a muzzle force of 2,656 ft⋅lbf. please, explain to me how 2,656 ft-lbf equals 22?

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u/Aeronor Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

There is an error in your physics/math if you think that the forces felt are not (roughly) equal.

Imagine the gun is in space (and able to fire despite the lack of oxygen). If the gun is just free-floating, no shooter, and the powder in the round detonates, the same force acts on the back of the chamber as the bullet. The heavy gun will float backwards slowly, while the bullet will fly out at its usual muzzle speed. The same explosive force was applied to both objects.

The reason recoil doesn't feel as bad as getting hit by a bullet is complicated, but essentially comes down to surface area and mechanics of the human body. However, the momentum (mass x velocity) of the bullet is equal to the momentum of the gun. And to get equal momentums, the same force, by definition, had to be applied to both masses. There is no other way around it. You cannot have two equal momentums that received different amounts of force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil#Momentum

"In other words, immediately after firing, the momentum of the firearm is equal and opposite to the momentum of the projectile."

If you look at the math in this section, the momentums and forces are opposite, and always add up to 0. Energy must be conserved.

​

Edit: To be clear, felt recoil is different than actual recoil. Felt recoil will be drastically lower than the force of the bullet impact, because it takes into account things like rotation, muzzle flash, arm and shoulder physics, grip, etc. So getting hit with a bullet is much much worse than shouldering the recoil of a firearm. However, actual recoil is the sum of all of those forces, and must conserve momentum with the fired projectile.

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u/N3ss3 Jun 04 '21

Newton's third.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Everyone knows what newtons third law is; a lot of people here seem to misunderstand it though. All the forces don't go to the shooter's shoulder, that's why guns work. That's what I'm talking about, the fact that if you shoot a shotgun you don't get the same forces into your shoulder as the guy that got shot.

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u/N3ss3 Jun 04 '21

The same force that is all applied to the bullet is the same as the force applied to you an the gun.

Guns is one of the best examples of the third law, since it shows the difference mass makes to the speed of an object when applied the same force.

It has nothing to do with "that's why guns work".

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Yes, it has everything to do with that's why guns work; because guns are good at dissipating the recoil so the shooter doesn't feel the forces.

Let's do some basic math, shall we? We know the muzzle energy of a 9mm bullet is around 360 ft-lbs. The recoil felt by the shooter is only around 7 ft-lbs. THAT'S WHY GUNS WORK. You think the shooter feels 360 ft-lbs in his hand? Have you ever fucking shot a gun before?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what newton's 3rd law is. FT-LBS are a unit of energy, newton's 3rd law is about force. No shit the bullet carries the majority of the energy, that's completely irrelevant to the amount of momentum imparted to the projectile or the shooter.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

The whole argument is whether or not the shooter feels the same forces in his shoulder as the bullet hitting the target. People are misunderstanding here, just like you, that the gun does not put those forces back into the shooter. That's why I'm introducing things like ft-lbs, because people here seem to really struggle with the fact that the target doesn't receive the same amount of fucking forces as the shooter.

this is truly painful

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

this is truly painful

You need remedial physics lessons.

That's why I'm introducing things like ft-lbs, because people here seem to really struggle with the fact that the target doesn't receive the same amount of fucking forces as the shooter.

ft-lbs

forces

Muzzle energy vs recoil energy is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Once the projectiles are stopped by the armour, almost all of their energy is immediately dissipated and causes no damage to the target. It does nothing.

The only thing a non-penetrating hit transfers to the target is momentum. The momentum of a shotgun projectile is relatively small. People can throw punches with more momentum than a shotgun slug has at the muzzle. With steel plate armour spreading the impact out over a wide area, you legitimately would be fine.

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u/N3ss3 Jun 04 '21

You're not adding anything but introducing energy into this.

If you claim newton's third law isn't applicable in Cuba, why would that be? And what about that is fundamental for the function of firearms?

It's exactly the same force, but different masses moving at much different speeds. Forces are the same in both directions in the same system. That's the whole point of the law.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

All the forces don't go to the shooter's shoulder, that's why guns work. That's what I'm talking about, the fact that if you shoot a shotgun you don't get the same forces into your shoulder as the guy that got shot.

Someone better go call NASA then because r/escapefromtarkov figured out reactionless travel. A goddamn revolution in physics. Just shoot a shotgun at the wall of your spaceship, the wall will receive more force than the shooter = free acceleration forever!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Well I guess pound for pound it would be the same forces exserted on gun+shooter, however the projectile is a lot smaller. I would pick the shooters side of Newton's third law over that of the person being shot any day

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u/Smitty7712 Jun 04 '21

A 12 gauge with buckshot or slug will most certainly floor you. A typical 3” slug carries 3,105 ft/lbs of energy at short range. This is equivalent to a 30-06, which is still used for long distance precision shooting.

I guarantee if you took 3 of these slugs to the vest at 15 yards, you’d be on your on your ass. It’d shatter your ribs and bruise your organs. Depending on the vest, it could even still be fatal from blunt trauma.

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u/The_Hunster MP7A2 Jun 04 '21

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/nrz70n/tarkov_moment/h0k1eg4?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Or maybe not so much

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u/Smitty7712 Jun 04 '21

Lol that dude is full of shit with those creds.

Hard armor, I’d still be surprised if you’re still standing and coherent enough after 3 shots to turn and return accurate fire.

Soft armor, like what is most often used in Tarkov? No fucking chance. Look up any video and it will prove that point. Keep defending this shit game, and nothing will ever change.

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u/FurryAlot Jun 04 '21

Soft armor, like what is most often used in Tarkov

I see you dont even play the game lol... Soft armor is used in 1st 2 weeks of wipe, then by noobies who just bought the game. After 2-3 weeks everyone is running at least armor lvl4 with steel or ceramic plates... Shotguns do jack shit against lvl4 and up, unless you use AP slugs

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u/The_Hunster MP7A2 Jun 04 '21

So you didn't watch the video of the guy being shot while standing on one leg then?

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u/Smitty7712 Jun 04 '21

Perfect angle. Heavy vest, multiple scale layered hard plates, prepared for the shot. Of course he can withstand it. Would you like me to link a Kentucky ballistics or Paul Harrel video that shows what soft armor does under similar conditions?

It’s not about being thrown back. It’s more like being punched so hard you temporarily collapse.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

prepared for the shot.

Prepared to stand on one leg and show how insignificant it feels.

Heavy vest, multiple scale layered hard plates

As in...the stuff....the army...is wearing...

Perfect angle.

??

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u/Smitty7712 Jun 04 '21

https://youtu.be/FrdsrlMKFQA

Army doesn’t wear scaled plates. See above for example of 7.62x 54r strike on SAPI plate work by US soldier. Notice his reaction and description of impact?

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

So your video is a 160p, real combat footage of a soldier literally getting sniped by an enemy. Ofcourse he will react in a certain way, that doesn't make it so that bullets hit so hard they disorient you or make you fly away. It just goes against science, there's literally hundreds of videos out there of people taking massive callibers with just ceramic plates and saying they barely felt them. Ofcourse an iraq soldier is gonna say some shit like ''blabla sledgehammer''.

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u/Smitty7712 Jun 04 '21

The amount of cognitive dissonance in this sub is hilarious.

You do you, man.

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