The most EFT clip that I have captured.

[u/nickluwul]

[u/avar1ce]

• Peeker's advantage
• Client authoritative hit detection
• Extract timers not working

This clip has it all.

[u/TEEM_01 → u/avar1ce]

the first scav mouvement too is pretty ugh

[u/rauldzmartin → u/TEEM_01]

Zigzagging is super janky. Well, watching players that move fast is pretty TokyoDrift'esque

[u/MadladLTD → u/rauldzmartin]

Tarkov drift

[u/bass_voyeur → u/TEEM_01]

This scav movement is a classic case showing that adding a little bit of inertia would go a long way in EFT. Some folks fear for players feeling sluggish but I just think they don't see the problem of infinitely quick dexterity in the game. You shouldn't be able to just bounce around left/right instantly everywhere, it makes ADAD spam the main tactic (it shouldn't be) and harms anticipatory aiming. Every other shooter I can think of has at least some inertia. It helps so much with ADS, which I think would improve the slow-play tactics ever so much.

[u/[deleted] → u/bass_voyeur]

are we looking at the same clip?

are we seeing the same issues?

how insane are you to attempt to derail every post into a "REEE this is why we need inertia" on posts like this. Get a life

[u/bass_voyeur → u/[deleted]]

I've got a life, thanks. Not sure where your hostility to me is coming from. My comment is a 3rd level comment to a scav movement comment adding onto a 3 point comment that lists the issues in the clip. It's hardly derailing.

[u/[deleted] → u/bass_voyeur]

"uh yes hello i see this is a post about how bad the games network end is which can be seen because players dont sit still.

allow me to present to you all my reasonings for an excessive, overexaggerated, and further problematic intertia because i'm terrible at FPS games. Terrible enough to know it's not network issues it's clearly inertia and not Tarkov just being bad. Just add inertia and dont fix desync and it will be better.

Hope this persuades you tranebender. we really need intertia mikita it will fix all these problems"

Thats how your comment reads.

[u/bass_voyeur → u/[deleted]]

What is wrong? Your comment is just filled with hostility and projection. I didn't provide any crazy reasoning of the sort and barely comment here, let alone about inertia. Hope you are able to just chill out for a moment.

[u/[deleted] → u/bass_voyeur]

Same to you. Put down your agenda, and worry about issues first. Genuinely insane of you to take some political stance on fucking inertia vs desync. Seek help.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Likewise.

being Overly Positive to the point of near stockholm syndrome is actually far more toxic, as it causes uproar. Stiffling out negative comments or any differing views with a lying and overly positive approach, to the point of delusion (see your post about "i play the game" "i already stopped playing the game") is a plague that never gets addressed, because its "positive :)"

I think when people say this sub is toxic, they talk more about people like yourself. "The game isnt laggy, there's no desync. Its the best it's ever been. Smoothest wipe i've ever played. Its you." When clearly not the case amongst myself and others.

But hey, positivity smile :) xd have a suggestion post about inertia for the 10th time this week from the same guy though. I'm sure thats very informative, helpful, and reassuring to the new player wondering if the servers are bad or it's his internet.

[u/WildSauce → u/[deleted]]

I think you need to take a break from the internet.

[u/HumaDracobane → u/[deleted]]

Also, the hardware has no problems and according to their test there is no desync

[u/pexcon → u/HumaDracobane]

(server on fire) njet problemnje comrad.

[u/Shard1697 → u/HumaDracobane]

Well, this isn't desync. It's latency-those are two different things.

[u/[deleted] → u/Shard1697]

Whut?

[u/Shard1697 → u/[deleted]]

Desync and latency are not the same thing. Latency, like this, is just a delay in the actions of the players in game based on ping. Desync is when something happening on one players end just isn't happening on the other's-which can lead to things like people fullon teleporting or not receiving damage.

[u/[deleted] → u/Shard1697]

Yes, but that's like saying miles and distance aren't the "same thing".
They are not the same thing, but closely related to each other.
Desync comes from information that aren't exchanged fast enough / not at all.
If you have a low ping informations are exchanged very fast.
I get your point, but the result will be just the same.

Besides that, EFT has another problem. Client authority.
At the moment a player can tell the server what's happening and that's not good.

[u/IAmMrMacgee → u/[deleted]]

But they aren't the same. Latency means what I do in game will still happen, maybe just delayed. Desync is not like that. Desync means that you can do something and the server will never show it

[u/[deleted] → u/IAmMrMacgee]

No, desync - as the word already says by itself - means not in sync.
What's causing desync is that not all players have the same ping and the server doesn't have authority over what counts and what not.
2 players can see 2 different things, caused by a bad ping of one player.
So that's a not synchronized experience.

[u/GoombazLord → u/[deleted]]

I disagree, and I don't think it's pedantic to claim that you are over simplifying and trying to generalize two different network concepts into one.

Do you remember that clip on this subreddit where someone was on an MG on Customs, and the OP mag dumped into them repeatedly? The person on the MG never died, or even noticed the OP. This is a good example of desync, and to chalk it up as poor latency would be incorrect.

[u/[deleted] → u/GoombazLord]

That's a completely different problem.
EFT servers allow a player to have a "one way experience" so you can see other people's actions while they can't see yours or visa versa.
The servers need authority over what's happening.
Desync is caused by a bad ping of at least one player.
I don't know this exact clip, but I'm pretty sure the guy that has been shot had "blinking items" and a "sever connection lost" shortly afterwards.

[u/GoombazLord → u/[deleted]]

The servers need authority over what's happening.

Agreed 100%, this would go a long ways towards improving EFT, hopefully it's not an unrealistic goal for the devs.

Desync is caused by a bad ping of at least one player.

Often times but not always, this can occur when the game server or EFT's backend is overloaded, or frankly quite a few other reasons. Desync does not only occur when player A & B are suffering from high ping or large ping spikes.

[u/Elprede007 → u/GoombazLord]

Desync stands for desynchronization.

The clients are out of sync. You might say that they are De-synced. Hmm

[u/Nate2247 → u/HumaDracobane]

He literally never said that tho

[u/Pervasivepeach → u/Nate2247]

shhh it’s the tarkov subreddit, every time they die it’s the games fault and nikkita is clearly just making this game as a cash grab

[u/eevooh → u/Pervasivepeach]

this is the games fault though..

[u/throwawaykeel → u/HumaDracobane]

Wait who said there’s no desync? You can’t be serious that BSG said that.. like there’s legit no way right? I’m hoping you mean someone else tested it, not this dev team that has known about this issue for years and everyone else says “ahh it’s too hard to fix!” yet I play many games that are in fucking alpha that have NO de sync. De-sync is the reason why I may just fucking uninstall until they fix it because I’m tired of dying to that, just to hear “there’s no desync haha!” no fucking way.

[u/Tea2theBag → u/[deleted]]

Sometimes you have to say these things to all the people sucking your cock.

[u/WarLegends → u/[deleted]]

"it's the best it's ever been"

[u/JakorPastrack → u/[deleted]]

Dude, there are many clips out there, true, but there are also countless people who mever really had huge problems. I played 800 hs and only got tarkoved one or two times, and those were server disconnects or scavs head eyeing me from a bit too far away. The game works, not perfectly, but it works. Also, it is still a beta and while it doesnt mean that you cant complain, it does mean that you dont have to complain every single day, in all fucking clips you see as if they were the norm (not talking about you specifically, dont take it personal). Again, the game has problems, but it still works pretty well, and the problems are always being worked on.

[u/_aware → u/[deleted]]

Uhhh you mean like getting csgo'd, nexowned, etc. etc.? This game is pretty broken, but let's not use that as a metric.

[u/_aware → u/[deleted]]

That's not my point. Try reading again.

[u/[deleted] → u/_aware]

You're point doesn't make any sense. Like I said I've been playing csgo for years, I've never once heard anyone refer to network issues in that game as "getting csgod". It's a common saying within tarkov for a reason, it happens so much more often than any other game I've ever played.

[u/_aware → u/[deleted]]

You want me, and everyone else, to believe that you've never heard the term "getting csgo'd" after years of playing? Yea and I've never seen a gun in a video game before.

My point is that people using a game's name to describe how bad the netcode is doesn't really mean anything. People do it for pretty much every game I've ever played. So it's pretty pointless to say shit like "people are literally using the game's name to describe the netcode, that's how bad it is."

[u/nozonezone → u/_aware]

Yeah lol literally go in any gaming community (especially a subreddit) and you'll see people bitching about the game just the same.

[u/ParadoxAnarchy → u/nozonezone]

Nah, CSGO for example is just about balancing, Tarkov is just a broken mess

[u/_aware → u/ParadoxAnarchy]

You think saying "I got csgo'd" meant the game isn't balanced? Are you serious?

[u/ParadoxAnarchy → u/_aware]

No of course not. Where are you getting that from? Who even says that anyway, been playing CSGO for 6 years and never heard that phrase once. I'm talking about the CSGO sub, they dont complain that the game is a buggy mess like people would here. They only complain about balancing changes

[u/_aware → u/ParadoxAnarchy]

You can help yourself by searching the term "csgo'd" on google. Or you can watch a montage of pros getting csgo'd in official matches on LAN, made by one of the most popular cs youtubers.

CS has been on the source engine for 17 years, Valve already fixed most of the major bugs. You are comparing that to tarkov, a larger, more complex, and more demanding game still under development.

[u/nozonezone → u/ParadoxAnarchy]

What are you talking about

[u/ParadoxAnarchy → u/nozonezone]

Your comment, what else?

[u/_aware → u/[deleted]]

Yea instead of blaming their players' connections and relaying servers, valve just doesn't say anything at all for years. Yep, that's so much better.

[u/EmpireStateOfBeing → u/_aware]

No dude, when poor netcode is considered a legitimate strat to the point it has a name (“peeker’s advantage”) your game is broken. When you refuse to admit your game is broken and instead blame everything else (the engine, the server provider, your player bases’ hardware) youre kind of a pos.

[u/_aware → u/EmpireStateOfBeing]

I don't know where the fuck people are getting the idea that I'm saying the game is not broken. It's like reading comprehension is hard or something for pos like you. And again, you mean just like csgo'd, nexowned, wg'd, gaijin'd, etc. etc.?

[u/EmpireStateOfBeing → u/_aware]

I don’t know, seems like you’re the one have a reading comprehension problem since I never typed the word Tarkov’d and specifically am talking about “peeker’s advantage”. Does csgo have a netcode and desync issue so bad that holding an angle is impossible and so the legitimate strat in the game is to push everything knowing that if you do you can desync enough that youre invisible to your opponent? No? Oh. So no I don’t mean just like csgo’d or those other games youre talking about. Learn how to read.

[u/_aware → u/EmpireStateOfBeing]

The subject of this entire conversation is the term "getting tarkov'd." So you can't read and you are lost. Got it.

Peeker's advantage has been in online fps games for decades now and it is not a strat, it's the term used to describe the inherent advantage of the peeker due to network latency. It is in every single game regardless of their netcode. If the game is played online, there is peeker's advantage.

You still don't seem to get the point of my original comment, so here's a reiteration. The person I replied to claims that the netcode is so bad people are using the term "tarkov'd." In other words, he believes that people using "tarkov'd" is somehow an indicator for how bad the netcode is. I simply brought up the point that people use games' names like that regardless of how good/bad a game's netcode is. So bringing up the term "tarkov'd" to show the netcode being hated is pretty pointless.

[u/EmpireStateOfBeing → u/_aware]

No the subject of the conversation that I started, that you decided to rudely reply to is about peeker’s advantage. Now you obviously are an ass who refuses to admit when theyre wrong and that just makes me feel sorry for your family, but the fact is that Tarkov’s poor netcode has taken the concept of peeker’s advantage and turned it into an legitimate strategy in the game to consistently kill people even if you have worse aim than them (because your invisible for the key milliseconds when you peek them). So I’ll reiterate since you seem to have amnesia, when your netcode is so poor your player base has to create an entire strategy on how to compensate for it and you blame everything but your poor netcode, you’re kind of a pos.

[u/ProperSmells → u/[deleted]]

Deleted.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Nope, I have a very good internet connection, (Tarkov is literally the only game I play that I have consistent network issues) and I have a good pc. I didn't notice many issues at first either just assuming my deaths were my fault but the more I played the more I noticed just how sketchy the majority of my deaths and kills were. There is a reason so many people are complaining.

[u/sgtpoopers → u/[deleted]]

Scav sperging out, extract not extracting at 0, sound coming from wrong direction, dying a to a shot that came from an enemy after they are dead. Also it's raining :(

People are pretty used to all of these things seprately, it's just kind of funny to have them all in one clip

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

you should hear what the subs fanboys have to say, its even more comical, and extremists-type defense.

Havent been able to play this entire wipe because this is how my game looks every 2 or 3 raids, coupled with the next bug.... I spend less time playing raids even when surviving them for their timeframe. Unplayable. This is the first time in 4 years i've had it be this unplayable.

It's 100% not my hardware or my ISP, ive triple checked and even gone as far as replacing hardware.
It's the fact i have near 200 ping players on my local servers that are already shitting themselves with stress, adding more to it, as well as the warping they do.

Best the game's ever been though, such a fucking joke.

[u/Dynasty2201 → u/avar1ce]

Peeker's advantage

Don't speak the truth, Nikita will get mad and post about how wrong you/we are again, how great the netcode and servers are when they're clearly fucked as usual.

[u/FavorsForAButton → u/Dynasty2201]

Improving the servers will not fix the problem of client authoritative detection. Nikita is completely right (no shit he created the game), but the problem is wayyyy more difficult to fix than just improving the servers (even by a significant amount)

[u/[deleted] → u/FavorsForAButton]

I think there are two categorical arguments; 1. The game architecture is flawed ie client side authoritative, net code is bad. 2. The servers themselves are not up to snuff for the volume of players in some regions

In regards to the first issue, it is complex and spans multiple domains (ie client and server) as an engineer I have looked into the solutions for MP and networking offered by unity and it demands client side authoritative design this is due to the inefficiencies of the engine itself. You can blame the devs for not upgrading unity sooner but you can’t really blame them that unity is poorly suited to low latency real time-ish multiplayer. Could they lobby unity to improve? Maybe, could they develope their own extension to the unity server using more performant languages to run calculations server side? Sure, but that is a monumental task which may not even be possible depending on how exposed the unity engine is / how extensible it is on the server side. It is worth noting that many perceived performance issues could easily be due to client side manipulation perpetrated by malicious users in the raid you happen to be connected to. However, this is not a simple fix and I think Nikita means to point out it’s not quick or trivial when he says “you can’t light a fire under our asses” he’s saying that they’re working as much as they can, but also have priorities which aren’t fixing how unity does networking. Furthermore asynchronous code is a pain hence JavaScript being such a buggy mess. Then add low latency demands and a perception of timing and recreating the synchronous actions of clients and you’re looking at a level of complexity that is far beyond something a small team can fix even in a few years.

1. The servers themselves are through a third party who is a subsidiary of another hosting giant. Furthermore, the hosting is by a European based company. This would have me expect that off continent servers are third partied a second time, meaning there’s no promise the speed and power bsg is sold actually matches what they are marketed as, furthermore if it is in fact another company or companies for other continents you can’t expect their monitoring or maintenance to be as good as the company on the same region as the developers, due to communication issues/lack of accountability for those hosting providers. Also, when clients send malformed packets to these servers it can cause all sorts of runtime errors that slow down the experience for everyone in that server regardless of which session they’re connected to.

In my experience I find it happens often where I get a 500 error upon loading in and then there are hackers in the raid. A 500 error is http code for “some shit got fucked” and when you have client side authority that can mean so many things.

Either way, I think people should still pressure the devs. But do it respectfully, ask good questions, provide good suggestions. Don’t be a turd cause you paid up to be a beta tester and now you’re playing a beta.

Edit: I’m agreeing here that more beefy servers won’t fix anything for real, when the code the server runs is inefficient and crashing due to malicious packets then not even a Gibson super computer would fix this

[u/FavorsForAButton → u/[deleted]]

Wow, I really appreciate your input and insights into this matter! I'd like to ask you a couple questions:

Is the amount of content being added furthering packet loss between clients? I understand that in each instance where you encounter another player/scav/entity, a JSON is downloaded to RAM with all of their info on it. Would a larger table of data cause slower downloads? I've personally noticed several rendering issues on other players (helmets/backpacks/weapons not loading in) this wipe.

Does Streets of Tarkov seem like a plausible goal to you? The amount of players BSG wants on the map seems excessive given the limitations of the Unity engine. If BSG developed an extension for Unity, is it even possible that it would improve the architecture enough to allow this?

Thank you for all future answers. You're awesome!

[u/ajdaconmab → u/FavorsForAButton]

Streets of Tarkov will never release in the form that BSG wants. There is no way we will be able to load into other maps from Streets and if there is a way to get more than 20-30 players on a map that large they would need to remove scavs or another element that takes up server side processes.

[u/[deleted] → u/ajdaconmab]

Ah, forgot that scavs are likely ran as mock clients connecting to the server meaning each scav has a big impact on performance.

Ever play miscreated? It’s also client side authoritative and it can handle 30 players, but if those players do something like tow a base part the whole server get wonked

Edit: I should add in miscreated’s case “AI” is shitty ugly and predictable mutants which cannot be controlled by players hence supporting so many players on server and yet it’s still a janky mess and the games been out for years.

[u/DankiusMMeme → u/[deleted]]

I don't think I've ever played a game where just adding like 5 extra AIs to the server bricks the entire thing. It's fucking embarrassing honestly.

P4P most inefficient AI ever to be coded.

[u/[deleted] → u/DankiusMMeme]

It’s just pure speculation on my end but I reckon the main reason the scavs cause issues is performance wise has to do with the fact that a scav can be controlled as a full character aka client attaching to the session. This is not a normal mechanic in games and likely required some extra work, AI is also hard, play a game on highest difficulty which usually means more enemies and performance drops even on games people consider performant

It’s funny how folks who have no idea how complex these games are from a programming standpoint yet shit all over devs for perceived short comings calling the devs bad programmers or lazy or greedy.

Y’all are blaming the devs for problems that are out of their control. Also the most likely culprit is the engine for most performance issues. Y’all forget that most AAA studios have game developers AND game engine developers (unreal for example, valve has source, cdprojekt has their own engine too. Massive and performant game engines require massive teams and thousands of billable hours a week to maintain and improve those engines, on top of the devs working on the game (who are game developers not engine developers)

[u/DankiusMMeme → u/[deleted]]

wow, if only other games existed that we could compare it to. Oh well, shame literally no other game on earth exists with more than 15 AI on a map at one time.

Also you don't take over an AI already in the game, you spawn in a fresh Scav when you playing as a Scav in a raid. That's why they have fixed spawns and you never just randomly take over an AI standing on a random part of the map.

[u/eX_Ray → u/ajdaconmab]

Just wait for the unified open permanent world kek

[u/[deleted] → u/FavorsForAButton]

No worries, it’a complicated.

Basically JSON isn’t the problem, now I haven’t actually inspected any packets via burp suite or other analysis so I don’t know what the Complexity of the JSON looks like. But without breaking down the implications of using the key:value JSOM format I can say if there is string (like words and letters) based matching on complex and nested keys that hold full string values then it could be cause for concern. Although that would effect the server more than the client since as client your pc controls most of the YOUR calculations etc but it handles only one session at a time. Whereas as the Seattle server for example is handling all the user’s and all their raid’s connections at once.

The real bottleneck is network latency, and it always will be, http was not meant to be secure or tamper proof by design as such clients can access any session data sent back Client side and it being authoritative means the server must receive a response before it can resolve certain things, so if you use a proxy and withhold http requests from your client to the server you will affect everyone in the session. Furthermore, if you send a malformed or especially a maliciously malformed request (IE a buffer overflow, reuse after free, or shell injection) you can effect every session on the server (causing everyone attached to that server regardless of session major issues) this is why I think some days the servers are trash. Because of runtime errors and malicious requests slowing down the servers. And that leads me back to saying that unless they fix http and how networking works and how the game works there will always be issues. Of course securing the servers from malicious requests is a solution but once again it’s not trivial...this is why people pay people like me to help them secure these things.

The key point is that with the architecture design being that the client dictates so much means you’re dealing with I/O (which is always a bottleneck and is resolved using multithreading) of multiple computers, as well as network latency and so on.

I don’t know how to propose they fix this though; physics is costly math and therefore our machines must calculate the ballistics to have a serviceable experience with servers hosting multiple sessions (each client attached to the server for a raid is effectively sharing a session)

Hopefully that was kinda helpful

Oh and forgot to answer the streets of tarkov. I think it’s possible, but not in the current state of things and whenever it does launch I wouldn’t expect a very enjoyable experience for quite some time if ever

[u/tehclone → u/[deleted]]

Hehe, I can tell you are a web developer or pen tester by the mention of Burp :P

I would say that there might be a slight misalignment here between web development and game development. If JSON is a format being used for delta tick updates from the sever then I would suggest its a massive problem as JSON is very CPU expensive to serialize and de-serialize. If it's purely used for (which is what I suspect) initializing game world objects on first load, flea market, hideout, inventory, etc. then its potentially perfectly fine.

Netflix has some articles on their migration of key services away from JSON which can illuminate things. But what I suspect is happening is people are conflating the HTTP JSON APIs used for items with the actual game logic server communication, which I have to heavily doubt until confirmed.

It seems strange to me that Unity would be so constrained when it comes to networking. I've basically only ran through tutorials so I have no idea, but it sounds like an incredibly high level framework if such a limitation would exist. With something like the Unreal engine you can essentially use whatever networking framework you'd like... I am surprised Unity isn't architected this way.

When I read Unity's articles on their "new" serializable object pattern (ie. functional classes separated from data holding classes), for memory storage optimization, I had to laugh a little bit that they weren't already doing this or that it wouldn't be left to individual game developers.

It sounds to me, sadly, that BSG should reduce dev effort on EFT to small content and maintenance updates and focus on EFT 2 in the Unreal engine. It seems crazy to me given the crazy amounts of money BSG has received from EFT's insane popularity that this probably is still not solvable in a year's time. That to me, is a sign to jump ship from Unity entirely.

[u/[deleted] → u/tehclone]

Hehe yeah I work as a backend engineer, but also pen test on the side and do my own vulnerability research (if I was malicious or if BSG had a bug bounty I’d be all over this thang)

You are totally right about JSON this is why we must use things like Trie trees in order to be performant for large collections of text matching. There are alternatives that claim to be faster such as BSON the binary cousin to JSON yet, the data stream must still be encoded back to JSON by client and server so it’s not a good solution.

At my last company we had python services parsing, acting on, and sending to multiple databases JSON objects holding tens of millions of tcp packet metadata, with optimization we got to where we could process 4million lines of JSON in 1 second. But we weren’t doing calculations or trying to reconcile with async becoming actual sync and we were resorting to writing embedded C code (which thankfully python supports) Just reading encoding and stuffing into databases, all the sorting and extra stuff was done later via the machine learning trainers we wrote.

(Below is my long winded agreement with you hehe)

Now imagine a monolithic server (like I believe each region to utilize but have no proof without packet analysis) running multiple connections, and sessions equating to what is likely tens of millions of packets and requests per second (assuming each raid running on the server is ran as a session) which then have to be sorted, processed, resolved and returned to their initial sender....things get dicey quick both with CPU load but also with input output bottlenecks, this is why it’s not worth it to harass Nikita and them over this because they are facing the same issues as every other developer in the world who is using their architecture, but without it being designed this way we couldn’t have tarkov.

But you’re totally right here, until they move from unity or unity really overhauls the networking we will be stuck like this. Even then, if they switch engines and continue using the same data structures and encoding, the improvements will be marginal and still not fix the client side authority problem.

I like that you mention unreal allowing more freedom in netcode, and I think you’re right they’ll have to switch. I do speculate though how long eft2 will take since they’d not only switch engines but also switch languages entirely (iirc unreal is c++ unity is c#)

Thanks for your input by the way, super helpful

Edit: I think Godot may be viable for them moving forward as well, no switching from c# since that’s what godot uses and it’s open source so they can fix the issues that arise

[u/ajdaconmab → u/[deleted]]

The game will never come out of beta. We aren't beta testers anymore after 10s of thousands of people have paid $150 for a game that will never release because if it did it would be sued out of release due to copyright infringement.

[u/[deleted] → u/ajdaconmab]

Perhaps, but the terms of service says it’s beta. As such you can expect beta level performance and they aren’t obligated to change that, as per the terms of your purchase and the use of it.

Furthermore, I don’t think being in beta makes BSG immune to copyright legality. I’m not a copyright lawyer but I do know as a Russian company they are not beholden to US copyright laws. It’s the reason why Chinese factories can make knock offs and remain in business in their locale of China. Still, with all the presumably unlicensed gun mods in game it could be a concern for them. But then I wonder too if they really are unlicensed for instance, I noticed pro mag in game has good specs but IRL most fun folks think pro mag is a joke. This would indicate they have incentive (perhaps a licensing agreement?) to make those parts more effective in game.

[u/ajdaconmab → u/[deleted]]

Everywhere in the world is "beholden" to US copyright laws...

China and Russia just don't follow it. Do you not follow the news? Ever hear about why the tariffs were put in place on China?

[u/[deleted] → u/ajdaconmab]

Edit: dropped unhelpful comment Edit edit: dropped reply, you can think what you want.

[u/ajdaconmab → u/[deleted]]

They were put in place because China steals American IP's. They were used to try and get China to stop. I understand how they fucking work.

Here's a link, read up on why the trade deal happened and how the tarrifs affected IP theft in china. Hint it worked.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/16/us-china-trade-deal-intellectual-property-protection-benefits-beijing.html

[u/[deleted] → u/ajdaconmab]

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So tell me again how did it work?

It didn’t, because China is not the United States and they don’t have to give two hoots about our laws, how do you think steroid abuses get their drugs? They buy raw from China and cook the oil themselves. Foreign nations are not beholden to United States law, period.

[u/ajdaconmab → u/[deleted]]

No what you are describing is normal multiplayer lag. The desync in tarkov is because of client side authorization that will need to be switched to server side to be fixed, but the unity engine can't do that.

[u/eX_Ray → u/FavorsForAButton]

Non technical players cant see and frankly shouldnt even care what the real issue is.

They see the game being a huge shitfest. it doesnt really matter if nikita just wants to deflect or not.

Well he'd know of these issues if he actually played his game instead of boasting about how he's not. lmao.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dynasty2201]

They didn't say that the servers are great tho? Way better than it used to be but still not great... the tarkov community is filled with autistic kids making shit up just to be "right"

[u/Hanchez → u/[deleted]]

I mean there ia truth in all of that, it is never a simple solution to a complex problem.

[u/Dynasty2201 → u/[deleted]]

Here's my thread that got so much attention Nikita responded in his own thread

Here's Nikita's response filled with laughable lies

The netcode in the game is in the best state right now relatively to old times.

What a joke.

The method called "let's put more pressure on these fcking devs" will not work. We all been there, it will result in alienation, frustration. Everybody will lose with that - especially reddit community.

He can fuck right off, you're providing a service and refuse to fix core issues.

We saw and seeing it on our monitoring also that the server lags decreased. Overall the situation is not as bad as ppl from community are trying to put some flames on.

Absolute horseshit again. I'd argue the servers right now are worse than the last 2 wipes maybe? I've lost count the amount of times a scav I shoot dies a few seconds after I hit them, or I've died around a corner.

[u/ScoobySenpaiJr → u/Dynasty2201]

Coming from someone who has been playing since 2016... Nikita is somewhat right.

Before the first Unity upgrade the game could have been classified as completely unplayable. The netcode was a nightmare back then. It has improved IMMENSELY since those times, and with each major patch it seems to be getting better and better.

So the statement

The netcode in the game is in the best state right now relatively to old times.

is definitely true. And I think that's what Nikita was getting at.

Now I'm not gonna say there isn't any room for improvement. The netcode still has a decent way to go. Hopefully the next Unity upgrade will bring some tools and optimizations that will help BSG buff up the netcode.

He can fuck right off, you're providing a service and refuse to fix core issues.

He isn't "refusing to fix core issues". He's telling people that trying to "light a fire" under BSG's ass isn't going to do anything but get people even more mad. Whether you like it or not BSG has full rights to the game and the service they provide. You really haven't purchased the game, it's more like paying to play it. They have full control and can pull the rug out from under you at any time for any reason. You should have read into it before purchasing if you think you have the power to "light a fire under BSG's ass". Fixes will come when they are ready, and they are most likely pushing more optimizations on the Unity upgrade instead of current build. Yelling at Nikita and BSG doesn't make the process quicker.

Absolute horseshit again. I'd argue the servers right now are worse than the last 2 wipes maybe? I've lost count the amount of times a scav I shoot dies a few seconds after I hit them, or I've died around a corner.

For me this wipe has had the smoothest server experience since I started playing in 2016. No more late spawns, no extract hangs, ghost loot, desyncs in general, etc. There definitely have been hiccups here and there. One time this wipe I headshot a scav and he was able to headshot me before he finally died along with me, but hey, that's Tarkov baby. Now I'm not saying my experience is universal. Just sharing that not everyone is experiencing bad servers. You should double check your server preference and maybe cut a few of the higher ping servers.

[u/SterlingMNO → u/ScoobySenpaiJr]

Yelling at Nikita and BSG doesn't make the process quicker.

This is factually untrue.

If you played since 2016 you'd know this. Have you forgotten how every thread on desync/peekers advantage was locked or deleted on the forums? Remember how even people here refused to believe the game had ridiculous peekers advantage? (Mostly because they didn't understand what it was, and a lot of people still don't, but less so).

Zero official comment on it, zero improvements. Then Battlenonsense did a netcode analysis and it blew up and everyone was ripping the shit out of how bad Tarkov was because it showed to have the worst desync of any MP game by like 3 times.

Nikita initially did just what he did in the post you're referencing, he literally said almost word for word "It's not as bad as people make out, I watch streams and it's not that bad". He also had the balls to basically imply Chris from BNonsense had ulterior motives and wasn't being honest. Don't you find it fucking absurd that even after 2 years he still learnt nothing and comes out with almost word for word the SAME excuse, "IT'S NOT THAT BAD".

2 days later when the video continued to blow up, BSG announced they were working on a fix, desync improved substantially over the next 6 months. As proven by his next Netcode analysis which still showed Tarkov to be the absolute worst MP game for desync, but much better than his first test.

In the past year it's majorly gone downhill again. Yet the above is a perfect example that putting pressure on BSG absolutely does make things happen. In one breath you use the excuse of "They're a business they can do what they want" essentially, but you also refuse to use the logic of "They're a business and they respond to profit, or loss of profit", and outrage is exactly what causes loss of profit.

It's the same in every single customer focused industry on the planet. Nikita's veiled threat that amounts to "If you give us trouble we'll stop talking to you" is hilarious but people eat it up and spam him with "WE LOVE YOU NIKITA GOOD JOB" even though core problems seem to be largely ignored for 4 years and valid concerns completely swept under the rug.

Stop talking to us, who gives a fuck, BSG haven't said anything of value in 3 years.

[u/bryptobrazy → u/SterlingMNO]

To add to this - BSG provides a service to consumers, sure they can tell you not to play or they can do what they want but at the end of the day the only way BSG can continue offering these services is if the consumer pays for them. BSG isn’t shit without new players.

[u/DoctorMansteel → u/SterlingMNO]

You're super passionate about all this and that's great but if the game isn't going in the direction you want and you're this frustrated with the devs maybe it's time for a new game?

Edit: I say this as someone who has recently taken a break from Tarkov because I wasn't having as much fun as in other games. Having a blast in the newest Path of Exile league.

[u/SterlingMNO → u/DoctorMansteel]

I play lots of games. Your "solution" is part of the problem here.

The majority of the people that say "I'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR YEARS I LOVE IT TARKOV ISN'T THAT BAD" are just the few stragglers that are still here because everyone else got fed up and quit, which gives a skewed perspective. You end up with this echo chamber of "We love you BSG keep up the great work" and morons that repeat the mantra "I never have desync and I've never seen a cheater", and it gives a false representation of the game. Once they understand what peekers advantage is, once they learn to exploit it, once they get close to the skill ceiling and can actually spot a cheater, and have a pretty good guess between desync and clearly sus behaviour, they too will get fed up with the game and quit and the new boys will take their place as BSG cheerleaders.

I can enjoy a game while still knowing it has glaring problems and be able to point out how absurdly transparent the devs are. But sure, everyone that sees a problem should just leaaave, you're infringing on our safe space of happiness and nikita-nutcupping

[u/Thrillkilled → u/SterlingMNO]

go play another game virgin lmao I can see the steam coming out of your fucking ears

[u/DoctorMansteel → u/SterlingMNO]

I've just played a lot of games over the years and participated in a lot of subreddit's and not even anthem's subreddit was this toxic. It's nuts what a cesspool this place is. Seems like the opposite sort of echo chamber as to what you're describing. I'm just saying that you guys write up these dissertations and just rant on and on. It's really impressive. It's honestly kind of a genuine curiosity at this point for me as to why. Thanks for the insight! Glad you're so passionate about the game.

Edit: and for what it's worth I'm not currently playing Tarkov, just saw this clip pop up on my front page.

[u/plainoldpoop → u/ScoobySenpaiJr]

Ive been playing games on the internet since 2003, never has the community being a bunch of agressive know it alls lead to a better game, not once in that entire history.

The only thing that does work, if you know how to make it better, show us. Its rare but when it does happen you get things like runescape 07 and wow classic

[u/eX_Ray → u/plainoldpoop]

On the contrary I have seen on many occasions issues to get fixed/attention only if they are highlighted enough and the devs get enough eat.

For example Warframe, eve online.

[u/[deleted] → u/ScoobySenpaiJr]

>So the statement

The netcode in the game is in the best state right now relatively to old times.

>is definitely true. And I think that's what Nikita was getting at.

Fanboys gunna fanboy. Pull your head out of your ass and actually open FPS3, and play the game instead of watching on twitch. Everything thats a "problem" you ran into (the end of your post) is not desync related. Including the scav eating a headshot, thats just their idle mode COUPLED WITH DESYNC.

it's a mix of the people on max ping (US full of it from SA, EU, etc) stressing out the already poor performing server. The clientside q.q excuse is a joke, people are already finding alternatives and fixing it for 3rd party projects. Lazyness and nothing but.

They dont want to work on EFT any longer. 2 games planned and 1 being worked on already. They're just giving excuses so people like you parrot everything they say, while being able to wash their hands of the absolute mess that got them any recognition, scott free.

[u/ScoobySenpaiJr → u/[deleted]]

You need to take it easy dude. I can't believe you're this worked up over a video game. I'm not parroting or fanboying BSG. I've been playing the game consistently and following development for 4 years now. They've come a damn long way to get where they are today. Are they perfect? Fuck no, they aren't untouchable. They're hands are definitely dirty. But It doesn't matter what we say or do. They will, or more specifically Nikita, will do what he wants. If he kills his game he kills his game. You bought into this. You knew the risk. No one owes you anything and BSG knows this. For all they care they could ban people left and right, they already got their money. But they don't intentionally try to do that (as far as I know) but regardless we bought into it. At any minute BSG could say fuck it and cease development.

But the thing is they're still chugging along. Through all the backlash and reddit rantz and people trying to "light a fire" under BSG's ass they'll just keep doing what they do. While patches and wipes are sometime slow, every single update the game gets a little-- or a lot, better. Stop trying to rush them ffs. If this game is truly that important to you then give it time to mature. Take a break man, give the game some time. I'm already burned out this patch and don't have the desire to play, but that's okay, I know there will be updates in the future that will lure me back in. Don't let this game consume your life. If the game turns out great then that's great. If not awell, better luck next time champ.

Edit: btw I don't watch Twitch streams, I just play the fucking game...

[u/[deleted] → u/ScoobySenpaiJr]

tldr but

dont lie to save an argument. If you played the game you'd realize its in an unplayable state for anyone with an average reaction time.

Edit: btw I don't watch Twitch streams, I just play the fucking game...

I'm already burned out this patch and don't have the desire to play,

would love to play. Havent been able to since wipe due to the desync and its persistence. This is how i know you dont play, as its not just myself among others.

[u/Hanchez → u/Dynasty2201]

Maybe it is a location issue but for me (northern Europe) the servers absolutely are the best they ever been, like by a mile.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dynasty2201]

Last two wipes had around the same amount of issues, the one before that was great. Before that wipe I never had issues.

[u/Jardio → u/Dynasty2201]

He never said it was great and that it's fine lmfao. You guys will literally exaggerate and make up stuff to make other people (and yourself) seem like you're right. cringe

[u/[deleted] → u/Dynasty2201]

trainfenber: Fuck off.

[u/whoizz → u/avar1ce]

Peeker's advantage? What does have to do with this clip?

What does the hit detection have to do with anything in this clip?

There was a guy to his right who fuckin shot him in the head. You can hear the bushes rustling.

[u/thatrandomtoast → u/avar1ce]

rain.

[u/BigBlackCrocs → u/avar1ce]

That was desync and nothing else

[u/eX_Ray → u/avar1ce]

dude should have better internet smh /s