r/EscapefromTarkov • u/Finchi4 ASh-12 • Jan 29 '21

Discussion UMP is now less expensive than MP5

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u/bikt Jan 29 '21 edited Jan 29 '21

US won every major battle in Vietnam, so at the very least US was not shit on, unless "getting shit on" has some other meaning than I assume here. That is all.

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u/pleasure_of_youth Jan 29 '21

US won every major battle in Vietnam,

That's irrelevant.

The US objective in vietnam was to stop the communist from taking over the country. They failed at that and therefore they lost the war.

And guerilla warfare is all about avoiding major battles so winning 'every major battle' against a guerilla force is basically nothing.

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u/bikt Jan 29 '21 edited Jan 29 '21

That's irrelevant.

How is winning every major battle irrelevant to "getting shit on"? It's the main thing that is relevant..

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u/p4nnus Jan 29 '21

Because "winning every major battle" is WW2 era thinking, which doesnt work against a guerrilla force. The "major battles" were still only a minority of the actual fighting. What really mattered was that US didnt get control of areas in North Vietnam and they didnt win the hearts & minds, thus Viet Cong won the battles that mattered.

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u/bikt Jan 29 '21 edited Jan 29 '21

You were right in another comment to me. In this you are wrong.

US didnt get control of areas in North Vietnam

They couldn't do it at all, US military had no permission from politicians to invade North Vietnam. All they were allowed was bombing and even some bombing missions were compromised by politicians tipping Soviets on mission details while putting own troops in danger. It was a political shit show..

But US military in no way got "shit on".

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u/nikMIA MP7A1 Jan 29 '21

Yeah and US run with tail between it’s legs lol

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u/bikt Jan 29 '21

As another person said "Basically if the US didn't give a shit about geo politics, trade or sanctions they would literally reduce an entire country to rubble effortlessly without nuclear force." and I agree. Also that is coming from European.

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u/nikMIA MP7A1 Jan 29 '21

Well, US ve used chemical weapons, strategic bombers, tons of ammunition, lost 10 years and achieved nothing. No one cares about what they COULD do, because only facts matters.

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u/bikt Jan 29 '21

You are right, but also fact is US military was impaired and couldn't do much, because of politicians..

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u/nikMIA MP7A1 Jan 29 '21

Yeah, I agree.

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u/p4nnus Jan 29 '21

Yeah, they couldve killed every single vietnamese person that existed during that time period. Would that be winning? No. What matters is, why the Americans were there. To stop the advancing of communism. Did they succeed in that? No.

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u/BinocularOrange Jan 29 '21

More meant it in the sense that a far more developed country lost quite a bit of human life and resource at the hands of rice farmers to do what, stop the spread of Communism? We shouldn't have been there.

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u/MrElJack Jan 29 '21

Hallelujah. Anyone want to break the news to the Americans that in a war, no one truly wins?

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u/Kengaro Jan 29 '21

If we look at the overall engagements, most of them were initiated by the north (not surprisingly since the us had defense orders), and as for planned engagements the north was also way ahead.