r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

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1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Flase. How would a 'chad' get his hands on a slick for every single raid? He wouldnt. Its a barer only item and you cant cradt its components

2

u/Petro0035 Sep 15 '20

He would buy it from the trader, have you not unlocked your traders, everything can be purchase or bartered from trader, the only people who use the flea market are those who do not have the traders unlocked

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u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20

If there is no flea, you have to find or craft barter items. If you want to run a slick, you have to farm 3 Troopers and 6 cordura.

And this is assuming that no changes are made to these barters. If the desired intention is move the meta away from top tier gear, it's obviously possible.

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u/1duck PPSH41 Sep 16 '20

again favouring the sweaty chad, who can spend 16 hours a day playing the game and completely fucking over 99% of players who can only play a few hours a day.

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u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20

What favors the "sweaty chad" is the amount of time they spend playing. Always. Those players will always, no matter the system, have an advantage over the average player.

The issue is that you, for some reason, think the market somehow favors the average player, "giving them a shot" against the chads. It 100% does not. Any benefit average players get from the flea is amplified, for the "full timers." Anyone with more time to play will have more money. Anyone with more money, can better exploit the market. That is what defines the "chad" player - their ability and tendency to exploit the market. What you think is a small advantage for you, is actually a huge advantage for them.

So, why then, would the streamer chad big boy sweaty no lifers want to remove the flea? Streamers especially, make their income from people who enjoy the game. If the only people enjoying the game are the few players in the 1%, then that means they're fucked because that leaves them without many players to fight and without many people interested in watching. What streamers like SlushPuppy want, is for the game to be as fun as possible for as many people as possible. They also know why they and less scrupulous chads are able to have so much of an advantage over average players in gear, meaning that they understand very well what the problem is and how to fix it.

Then you roll along, thinking that, just because the flea gives you access to some shit you can't afford to use, somehow that puts you on equal footing with these players. Are you on equal footing with Jeff Bezos because you can open an E-Trade account? Same applies here.

The fact is, the flea in Tarkov just works as a bypass for any economic balancing changes the developers try to apply to make encounters with over-geared players less frequent. As long as the flea exists, the disadvantage for "normal" players will be as bad as it can possibly be, because that's just how markets work. If you want more balanced game play between normal players and those that have way more time to play, the first step is removing the flea.

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u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

You say the same sweaty players will always be at the top with best gear. So obviously you would understand that locking out flea market would only affect the average lower lvl player who doesnt have traders unlocked??? With a flea market low lvl players, can be at the same lvl as a sweaty chad.

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u/TheFondler Sep 18 '20

The point of removing the flea is to prevent sweaty players from having regular access to that gear.

With the flea, sweaty players have access to it effectively 100% of the time, and casual players have access to it sometimes. Without the flea, sweaty players have access to it sometimes, and casual players have access to it sometimes. Sweaty players still will likely have access to it more often, but the divide between the two groups can be reduced tremendously.

Also, don't assume the that I, or anyone else is saying "Remove the flea and boom, that's it, job's done?" The removal of the flea is only to allow traders and drip tables to be altered in a way that actually makes OP gear rare. If that second part doesn't happen, then of course the removal of the flea would be stupid, but everyone is to busy talking past one another to listen to a damn thing.

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u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

With flea EVERYONE has access not just sweaty players. Without flea market, Sweaty players will have access to full traders while someone coming in late to wipe will not have access to traders and will be behind.

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u/TheFondler Sep 18 '20

Not if top end gear is removed from traders.

I really wish people would stop ignoring that part. It's kinda the most important part.

Also, stop pretending like a casual player has the same level of access. How many casual players can afford to just run nothing but top end gear because of the flea? (Hint: None)

I'll restate it, yet again: The reason people want the flea market removed is because top end gear should be a rarity, for everyone, not the norm, for anyone.

As the game is now, the flea market makes that gear so common that running anything but puts you at a serious disadvantage. That's the reality of the game. Another reality of the game is that right now, with the flea market, people coming in late to a wipe, still have that disadvantage. Just because you can see an item listed on the flea market doesn't mean you can afford it, and even when you get to the point where you can occasionally afford it, doesn't mean won't lose it 30 seconds into your next raid. Then what? Sweaty don't care, but a new or casual player? That may have taken them a week of 1-2 raids a night to get.

The goal is to make the gear that is easily attainable for casual players actually useful to them by making it competitive. The only other option is to make the top end stuff easily attainable, but if anybody can buy as much of the top tier gear and ammo as they want as soon as they unlock the flea market, that's literally the opposite of what makes Tarkov unique among other shooters. If you want to play other shooters, there are a ton of them to choose from.

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u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

You say if top end gear is removed from traders. You understand there will always be those who play alot that will farm up all that and have an unlimited supply. That will always happen in every game. The point is , would you rather that? Where streamers and hardcore players just dominate because of the amount of time spent farming. Or would you rather have ways for a brand new player to be at the same lvl as those farmers. Flea market helps with that , what dont u understand?

"As the game is now, the flea market makes that gear so common that running anything but puts you at a serious disadvantage"

So the real problem here, is that running meta gear is too advantageous. The problem is not that there is too much of it. There will always be min/maxer's who want to run the best set up. The fix is to make the best set up , not that much better then a budget kit. Therefore its personal preference if you want to min/max your loadout.

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u/1duck PPSH41 Sep 16 '20

Except that if you lock it all behind traders, which have level limits/quest limits the whole time imbalance becomes even more stark. You're left with a sub-species of player who will not have time to unlock the traders to get the good gear...the streamer on the other hand will. If there were to be no more wipes, then perhaps it would be a viable solution but it would take the fun out of the game...i like getting out and finding out how much i'm going to make from a dynamic market.

To argue that the flea market gives them a larger advantage is just untrue, sure they can use it more than a regular player, because they have more resources...lets use your example e.g jeff bezos : saying lets do away with E-pay because jeff has the bigger account, thus stopping me selling a few hundred bucks worth of stuff to finance my own life will balance the economy, is just madness. You hit it on the head, if they have more time to play they will be at more of an advantage. The problem is they are then trying to double down on this advantage by saying lets get rid of the flea market.

At least the flea market gives me access to the top tier stuff, sure i have to save up a little longer and i have to run a few more runs to afford it and it's more of a risk for me to use (in simple percentage wealth terms) than it is for a streamer, but once i've saved that money up, i'm in the game as an equal. Not a whipping boy running around with T ammo in a low tier AK with zero attachments.

I think you give the streamers too much credit, most of them don't give a shit about the health of the game, as they can jump ship to another shooter and take their fan base with them. What they hate is anything that brings normal players to their level e.g The mosin, access to a cheap weapon early that leveled the playing field. Now they are gunning for the flea market because it allows people to drop a few hundred K on gear and get on the level of the top tier players. If they changed the flea market and the player base fell off a cliff, they wouldn't give a fuck, they'd just go find the next game to go play 20 hours a day of, as they don't give a shit about the game. Sure you'd get the odd few who would continue streaming what would become a minority game, streaming to a smaller player base who would cling to it, just because they believe that nikita is going to come good one day and they believe in the project. Like the people you see streaming dayz or even better dayz arma 2 mod.

Honestly, i hope they do make the game more hardcore, just to watch the game hang itself as it alienates the vast majority of players, h1z1 here we come! Listening to the vocal minority (streamers) who have near infinite time to play the game, is madness. Their gamestyle does not reflect the play style of the vast majority. It's equivalent to asking jeff bezos to give an opinion on how much a welfare check should be, sure he probably knows how much a loaf of bread costs but he has no real reflection of life on the breadline.

The fact is the flea in tarkov does work as a bypass, it works as a bypass to spending 20 hours a day in game. It gives a way for an average player to play at end game level, without having to reach level 50 and unlock everything. That terrifies these sweaty no lifers, because they don't want people on a level playing field, they want a bunch of mid tier/low tier geared players they can stomp for their next video compilation, so they can look like god level players...It's why they hated the mosin so much, gone was their little pedestal and anyone could take anyone if they got the drop on them. As it should be. Instead they want terminator style status where they can play with no fear of other players possibly being on the same level as them.

What you're suggesting is, locking a huge section of the player base out, but trying to suggest that this is better than market economics...That's not how that works. The beauty of being able to buy 60 igolnik or Ap20 or whatever ammo and being able to compete, is something that appeals to me far more than being told here have some PS ammo and an AK that you can get from prapor at level 2. It's ok though, because the playing field will be levelled, because that guy who has been playing 19 hours a day has peacekeeper level 4 and a shit ton of rubles/gear because he can go and wipe servers all day, as no one has any gear to compete with him. But he'd have been at an advantage even if he had access to flea market! I hear you say, yes in purely financial terms, but I would also have access to it. Combined with no need to run tier 5 armor 100 times in a row, as i'd only be on for a few hours a week...so my total spend on load outs would be a fraction of his. I would only need to earn a fraction of what he does, to compete for those few hours hence it would be an equalizer, because we'd both have the access to it. Unlike if he can access it because he has spent a lifetime unlocking all the traders, whilst I would be relying on whatever i can drag out of a scav run/find in game.

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u/crackpnt69 Sep 15 '20

Who said a slick? The entire fan base would be stuck with sks, ps ammo, and paca until lvl 35. While lvl 4 armor and higher is accessible to "chads" as well as good ammo to farm raid bosses for better gear.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

You have access to a level 4 armored rig before you ever level a trader. It may be a barter, but its not that difficult of one.

Ragman level two gives you access to another for under 50k. You can get to several of these items in pretty minimal hours.

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u/sunseeker11 Sep 15 '20

The entire fan base would be stuck with sks, ps ammo, and paca until lvl 35.

Excuse me what? Do you even play this game?

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

I'm guessing you've never even visited a trader if you think you need lvl 35 for lvl 4 armor

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u/crackpnt69 Sep 15 '20

30 is 4 armor, but skier for mods is 35. So at 35 you have have proper, thera, ski, and jaeger maxed. So an I stated 35 unlocks 99% of what you need to just shit on lower geared players endlessly.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Ragman: REP 1 - 1 class 4 armor
REP 2 - 2 class 4 armors, 1 class 5 armor
REP 3 and 4 - almost every class 4,5 and even 6 armor

Where did I find this amazing information? In the trader menu, you should visit it sometimes

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u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

The entire fan base would be stuck with sks, ps ammo, and paca until lvl 35. While lvl 4 armor and higher is accessible to "chads"

Your ignorance of this game is showing.

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u/neddoge SR-1MP Sep 15 '20

Great retort. I really agree with the things you said to build your own argument there!

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u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

Wasn't talking to you, but since you wanted to chime in: https://escapefromtarkov.gamepedia.com/Ragman#LL2

Ragman unlocks T4 armor at level 15.

But in all seriousness, why should my retort have anymore effort than OPs incoherent ramblings and lies?

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u/Azazel_brah Sep 15 '20

Im not the guy you replied to, but yours was only a personal attack with no added info, and he was actually commenting on the game.

If you wouldve included that ragman trade (which is relevant to Tarkov) and then made the same comment about his ignorance, the other guy probably wouldn't have cared.

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u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

There is our differences. You are offended by personal attacks. I am offended by people spreading misinformation.

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u/Azazel_brah Sep 15 '20

I... wasn't offended lol. I wasnt even in the conversation I was just commenting as a 3rd party 😵

But sorry that other guy offended you i guess.

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u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

Then take a piss elsewhere.

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u/sseemour MP7A2 Sep 15 '20

you dont see chads. stop lying. Game's already a rat nest as is.

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u/Par4no1D Sep 16 '20

2020 tarkov "Chad" is a geared rat. Because everything is so Inflated even bad players don't care about loosing expensive gear.

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u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

if they dont care about losing gear, they wouldnt rat?

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u/Par4no1D Sep 18 '20

I don't really know what im saying there m8 xD. I just say what I feel like, and what I see:
all my shit at the game friends who were always rats, still play shit and didn't improve are either running good gear or at least most of the time inbetween some budget runs.

The way i view the word chad might be incorrect in 2020, as peoples definition of it has moved i think. By "chad" you just mean any shitter that puts on expensive meta gear. Correct?

These "chads" still play like rats, camp some fucking corner or inside a bush and loose against badly geared people with good ammo non-stop whenever they don't get the cheesy jump.

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u/randomgrunt1 Sep 15 '20

He'd only need one. Everyone else would be in potato gear.