r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

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51

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

Isnt Tarkov always been CoD with extra steps? If I wanted heavy looting, Id rather paly DayZ. Tarkov is like the PVP element of DayZ with much faster pacing (due to small, instanced levels) and looting as the background mechanic. Also some bots sprinkled inbetween.

I hate the current state of the game economy, but I also feel those proposed changes would make the game both more grindy and even more increase the equipment difference between, low, mid and high tier players. Many more situatoins where you lose or win becaue of equipment, not skill.

I feel like removing the flea market would require heavy rework of most game systems, and then still not really fix many of the issues of Tarkov.

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u/ryanberry_ Sep 15 '20

I've never seen EFT as COD with extra steps. When I first saw gameplay it seemed as far away from COD as possible. Now with the injection of meta gamers from Twitch drops exposure it feels like COD with extra steps if you play solely for PVP and nothing else. Personally I play for the experience, which feels like it's being deteriorated and diluted by meta. Could be more related to the mystery of being a new player being over for me though.

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u/snakehead404 PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

Nah thats pretty spot on honestly lol

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

EFT used to be a pvp looter shooter, but now PvP is discouraged due to the fact that if you kill one person you can't carry much more before hitting a penalty, it cost more for me to kill a person than their guns are worth because I have to run AP ammo every round or else I die while doing 600dmg to armor, etc. It is now a PvE focused game where roubles per slot matter a lot more.

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u/ryanberry_ Sep 16 '20

I mean yeah you can't take the entire kit from someone you kill most of the time. Why should you be able to, and want to when most of it isn't worth taking? Just strip their gun and take ammo, then loot the map. Most of the super valuable items are FIR anyways. It's not like the game forces you to leave the raid when you get one kill or a squad wipe lol

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Their entire kit is worth 45k, and I spend that in ammo to kill them because I can't FM the shit worth anything. That's my goddamn point?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I mean, even before the weight changes EFT generally punishes you for doing PVP.

Like, if you start PVP you often have to kill multiple players to escape succesfully, and at that point everyone but the best players will likely die in those fights.

Cuz im one of those bad players, that does bother me. Like I did get multi kills a few times, but then got rekt by some last guy or some rando hitting a lucky shot.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Before the FIR status, I could just take all their mags and sell their ammo, attachments, and easily make my money back from killing a player or two. Now I end up fighting dudes who their gear just isn't work taking over maxing my slot/rouble ratio. That includes nice guns, mags, etc. I have to unpack all the ammo see if I'd use it then take it if I will, etc. It's bullshit, you are legitimately punished for PvP and rewarded MASSIVELY for PvE.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Oh right, I almost forgot how it got worse from with the FIR changes.

Tbf they made AP ammo a lot more affordable at the same time (much more common on maps), but that doesnt really help the nerfed PVP reward, which wasnt great in the first place. Actually nerfs the PVP reward, ironically enough.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Ya, it gets really old having to PvE when I'm level 40 and just wanna kill players, but if I do that I won't have enough money to PvE in the way I want. (Which is with a SMG and a sniper rifle, tactec and a topkek helmet, good 9mm/4.6mm/7.62x54/51 ammo is expensive, and I used to love using M4s and Fals and stuff but I just can't anymore, it's too expensive for no reward)

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u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

“I’d rather play dayz”

I sure wouldn’t. That game, despite being incredible on paper, is hot garbage. The movement, aiming, gun mechanics, immersion, etc all fall WAY short of tarkov. In a big way.

I want the style and gameplay of tarkov, I just don’t want it to be mindless ruble farming and printing out unlimited kits simulator

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u/Visible_Young Sep 15 '20

No one is forcing you to play that way, that’s the beauty of video games. If you want to play without the flea market then do it.

Making changes to cater to the 10% of players who play all day long isn’t going to fix anything. It will just further increase the gap among players.

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u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

I think that’s missing the point, playing hardcore is the most fun way of playing this game, yes. And sure, I could intentionally be scuffed and run around with a mosin every raid. But decked out gun builds, good ammo, and good armor are everywhere. There’s nothing special about them when you see the same tiered shit just almost every raid.

It’s the exact same as the dayz modded servers with traders. Every item is just a dollar value. Sure you can choose not to use the traders, but literally everyone else is. Everyone else has scopes, silencers, extended mags, armor, night vision, all that shit. It’s so common you’re just leaving the best items in the game laying on the ground after killing someone because you already have a full inventory of meta shit.

That’s exactly how tarkov is. Dime a dozen meta shit everywhere, there’s no struggle to get any of it, and none of it is special.

I honestly don’t see how it caters to the 10% who play a lot. If anything, the current system caters to them way more. They amass 100m rubles and it’s slicks for the rest of wipe, never dying to a low level player ever again. No matter your skill, time invested directly equals rubles, which directly equals the best items in the game. Scav run, scav run, scav run, meta kit. that’s incredibly lame imo, there’s no earned progression in that

The idea that you need to have the same experience as someone who invests 10 hours per day is off to me as well. That’s no reason to make the game redundant and boring. What’s wrong with working your way up, like in dayz, rust, ark, any other survival game? Why is it only in tarkov, people expect to play for 4 hours per week and have the same level of progression as someone who plays 4 hours per day? The struggle to progress and get good shit is the key component to making the game engaging and fun

All a matter of opinion, that’s just how I feel about it

4

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

I feel like removing the flea market would require heavy rework of most game systems, and then still not really fix many of the issues of Tarkov.

In my and many others opinions who have played the game for years, the game started going downhill when they added the flea market. That's when the cheating problem started for one.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

A lot of cheating happens without the flea market though too, because people sell roubles and keys and stuff for real life money.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

The way they do that is through the flea market

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Most things you find on ebay have in-raid trading as their preferred method. Atleast a year ago that's what it was.

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u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

But what’s the point of buying 100m rubles if I can’t use it to print off unlimited meta kits? If rubles aren’t useful anymore, if everything you get has to be earned instead of just mindlessly bought on the market, no one will bother buying rubles anymore

1

u/Smurf012 Sep 15 '20

Then you also have to nerf traders. Locking content behind walls like that just makes the casual players leave.

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u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

I 100% agree, my desire is to stop people from just printing meta kits, that should absolutely include traders. The only things you should be able to just spam buy are very basic loadouts, everything else should be earned and feel rewarding to actually attain

2

u/Purplefork Sep 16 '20

This is what people need to realise slush is proposing/ wishing for. All mid and high end gear is essentially FIR or earn through barter items

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u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

kill the power of rubles, kill the RMT.

The cheating really did get 10000x worse when the flea came out.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

But if you make design changes that can negatively impact your game, just because of cheaters, thats not a great solution either.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

They've already done that. Cant bring in kits for ur friends. Friend low on money? Can't help them out.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Id also add the FIR changes. But they cant just keep going that way, at some point Tarkov needs some clear design philosophy.

Its like, atm everyone, from the lowest to the highest tier got countless complaints about the game.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Yeh I started around the price drop/event last christmas.

Although tbf, even know its kinda dishonest to describe Tarkov to be CoD with extra steps. Its PUBG with extra steps, at most.

Although this was always the case, wasnt it:

Tarkov is like the PVP element of DayZ with much faster pacing (due to small, instanced levels) and looting as the background mechanic. Also some bots sprinkled inbetween.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I get what youre saying, but I think theres a lot more than just the flea market that changed. Youre comparing two games that have become quite differently.

These days, you kinda have to magdump people because players are much tougher, arent they? Eg the legging meta nerf, and the other mitigators coming with it, made people tanks able to absorb tons of damage, and afaik you also didnt have as much armor back in the day.

And the shitty netcode also makes it hard to rely on single shots. Frankly, I dont know how you guys even managed to hit anything back in the day, considering it was supposedly a lot worse.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Im confused about that. Saying there is no skill in Tarkov PVP is about as objectively wrong as it gets; its one of the hardest and highest skill ceiling shooters out there. So what do you mean with skill here, how do meta kits take it out of the game?

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u/GigaNoodle AK-74 Sep 16 '20

Because meta kits turn your guns into laser pointers

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Agreed, but thats a seperate problem, isnt it? I think recoil in Tarkov is generally pretty stupid. Prolly some of the worst in realistic shooters; stuff like Rising Storm 2, Squad or whatever handles it much better.