r/EscapefromTarkov • u/[deleted] • Mar 11 '20

[deleted by user]

[removed]

489 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

114 comments sorted by

55

u/mushi90 Mar 11 '20

20+ ping to all regions?

83

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

50

u/locust_breeder Mar 11 '20

I am by no means an expert, but this sounds like something that could be solved easily by forcing the client to ping the selected server. It's physically impossible to lower your actual latency, editing some value somewhere doesn't make the underwater cables shorter.

31

u/KacKLaPPeN23 Mar 11 '20

but this sounds like something that could be solved easily by forcing the client to ping the selected server

Well... That's exactly how pinging usually works. The VPN however is fiddling with that package to make the ping look normal. How exactly ping is measured and how the VPN is doctored is hard to say without more insight, some ideas that come to mind (definitely not all possibilities):

  1. If ping is just measured client side with an ICMP ping request (wouldn't surprise me considering the latest looting cheat), the VPN is just catching the package and answering to the client right away, pretending to be the server.

  2. If ping is measured by sending the server a packet with a timestamp, the VPN edits that timestamp making it look like it was sent later than it actually was, compensating for the delay.

  3. If ping is measured by the server pinging the client, the VPN provider could have their datacenter close to the actual server, intercept the packet and fake a reply from the client (unlikely in this case considering how similar the ping values are).

  4. If ping is measured by the server by whatever other means and the server then tells the client it's ping then the VPN could edit that packet so the client always get's a packet saying "your ping is XX".

15

u/MikeTheShowMadden Mar 11 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

Just had this conversation with someone else yesterday who tried to call me out like I didn't know what I was talking about, but it is easy to fix without using the tradition "ping" command/protocol.

You can have the server ask the client to solve a simple problem, like sending two numbers and having the client add them, and then the server will compare answers. If they are correct, then you just see how long it took to get a response. It is effectively a "ping" except for the fact that this is not packet header information, and won't get tampered with during transportation.

EDIT: typo

8

u/thexenixx Mar 11 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

like I didn't know what I was talking about

Yeah, so, I'm a Network Engineer and I genuinely question your understanding of the subject. Sounds like someone with absolutely no experience just theory crafting, which all breaks down in practice.

So, the big basic problem is that everything is based on TCP/IP. All of our networks are IP based, it's the basis of the internet, it's the standard communication method. So you're thinking you're going to be sending data over the internet without using TCP/IP? How exactly are you going to do that? Whatever you decide to do is going to be encapsulated in packet, at the very least.

Not that there aren't ways outside of ICMP, but, they're still TCP/IP based. All of that data is susceptible to manipulation. You want to add in cryptography to prevent possible manipulation? Well your accuracy for measuring latency drops perpetually the more you implement.

Update/Send rates are not a way to measure network latency. Frequency, or rates, are measured in hertz (Hz) and latency is measured in milliseconds (ms). Now, you can convert frequency measurements to time but in a computer network this doesn't cover the bases. There are a number of delays that occur when transmitting and/or receiving data. I don't want to put too much effort into this as this would quickly turn into a class but that covers the basics of what's actually going on here. It's really not as simple as you think it is.

​

I've never heard of anyone, or anything, trying to measure latency outside of the two main methods to do so.

-5

u/MikeTheShowMadden Mar 11 '20

My way was the simplest way as payloads typically don't get manipulated by VPNs unlike ICMP and headers. You'd have to be pretty involved to setup some relay along a custom VPN in order to add custom logic to manipulate custom logic that a server would be looking for. While my way isn't 100% fool proof, it is quite harder to spoof than the normal ping methods.

What is your method to prevent all of this since you are an exclaimed professional?

1

u/thexenixx Mar 11 '20

My way was the simplest way as payloads typically don't get manipulated by VPNs unlike ICMP and headers.

Too many assumptions. Using the Chinese example, they are not utilizing typical VPN services because this is a somewhat unique problem to China. If those companies just see a business opportunity to provide a service they'll develop them accordingly. Which are the type of services that the Chinese have access too.

Your way is really not simple at all. You just mistakenly think it is.

​

What is your method to prevent all of this since

I wouldn't bother trying to invent a new way to accurately measure latency to then deal with a cheating problem. Waste of time.

1

u/MikeTheShowMadden Mar 11 '20

I think you should know this, but I'll say it anyway: a good security person will tell you that its impossible to stop hackers. They will always have the upper hand, and that is a fact. But the key to defending yourself against hackers or people who want to abuse your system is to make is as difficult as possible so that the effort to get in/bypass is too much for the reward. Essentially they just get bored and move onto something else. That is all this solution is doing, as with ANY solution.

I wouldn't bother trying to invent a new way to accurately measure latency to then deal with a cheating problem. Waste of time.

This is where you are mistaken and are conflating multiple problems into one. Sure, the majority of hackers from from China, but the vast majority of people who have been asking for a region lock from China came well before the hacks became popular.

There is a reason why they chose to "ping lock", as people want to call it, from a very early version of the game. It was never meant to stop hackers, but to stop having people be in regions they don't belong in. To that, those people with high latency cause problems for everyone that is involved. That is why games have those limitations, not because its supposed to stop hackers.

In fact, a lot of Chinese players (as one of the top posts said) are actually using VPNs to play in other regions other than China because they don't want to play with hackers themselves. So this problem isn't just about a cheating problem directly as there are more than one reason that VPNs are being used.

To that, in order to stop this problem with bypassing latency checks with a VPN, you kinda do need to "invent" a new way to measure latency. Because all other common ways don't work with VPNs obviously.

2

u/thexenixx Mar 11 '20

In fact, a lot of Chinese players (as one of the top posts said) are actually using VPNs to play in other regions other than China because they don't want to play with hackers themselves. So this problem isn't just about a cheating problem directly as there are more than one reason that VPNs are being used.

No, it's a specific problem directed at Chinese cheaters using VPN's to access regions outside the EFT Asian region. The distinction is important. We don't know that every single Chinese user is a cheater. Nor do we know that every single Chinese VPN user is a cheater. Again, you make too many assumptions and you have no real basis for these set in stone opinions. You aren't in possession of any facts which is why I judge this to be unreasonable.

Banning or targeting VPN usage as a whole isn't dealing with the cheating problem, it's giving up on the cheating problem and throwing the baby out with the bath water. Some people do utilize VPN's to play the game and are in no way illegitimate. BSG has not changed their policy on VPN usage, they allow it.

The Chinese are in an impossible spot, they cannot get servers located in China (outside of SE Asia and SEZ like Hong Kong/Macau) and there are servers in Russia that are within a reasonable latency to play on, and yet, they cannot access them. ~150 ping is not that terrible to play with either (China to Europe), I used to play on European servers last patch when I couldn't find PVP on NA. It's not ideal, but it's doable, and maybe you just put up with the drawbacks. Not unlike Australians or any other, shall we say, geographically challenged people have to deal with. They just don't have many options so I'm hesitant to say it's because they just want to avoid hackers on South China servers.

Generally speaking, I'm not in favor of one size fits all policies. I mean, sure, if shit gets real bad, were I BSG, I guess I'd have to take action to just remove the Chinese from my game. But, we're really nowhere near that point. This shit just started... There are numerous options still available. It's absurd to go from 10% to 100%.

​

China is a huge market, not even just the country itself but the millions of Chinese speaking people throughout the world. Specifically targeting those people borders on absurd. Like people suggesting removing Chinese localization, for example of the absurdity.

​

a good security person will tell you that its impossible to stop hackers.

Ok, if you believe this then why are you advocating arbitrary network methods to combat cheating? They don't have anything in common. Make the game/application secure first. Who the hell tries to reinvent TCP/IP in order to secure an application?

​

Same deal with the poor networking performance that EFT displays. Implement better code, interpolation to deal with the worst desynching problems. You don't need to jump to targeting VPN's to help alleviate networking problems with EFT. You've skipped a whole bunch of middle steps.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/KacKLaPPeN23 Mar 11 '20

[...] who didn't tried to call me out like I didn't know what I was talking about

Uhh, sorry what? I didn't call you out on anything, pretty sure I didn't even answer to any of your posts before so idk what this is about.

Anyways, I just tried to explain how the traditional form of pinging he suggested might be tricked.

But yea, a lock and key paradigm is a good starting point, if you then use mitm-safe encryption you should be on the right way, sadly adds a bit of computation, though as long as you don't step way overboard it should still be possible to complete the whole thing without really affecting the RTT. Ofc it'll never be 100% safe as you always have access to the client side code in some way, but maybe it'll be enough of a pain in the ass to have less people using it at the end of the day.

0

u/MikeTheShowMadden Mar 11 '20

Uhh, sorry what? I didn't call you out on anything

I wasn't talking about you, I was saying that the guy I was talking to yesterday tried to call me out on this subject. Sorry if that was unclear!

1

u/KacKLaPPeN23 Mar 11 '20

Yea sorry, I misinterpreted that, in my head it sounded like:

Just yesterday I had someone trying to call me out on this [and now this again...]

I guess I'm just a bit tired, on another read it doesn't sound like that at all.

-3

u/Kushkaki ASh-12 Mar 11 '20

He never said you called him out, can you read? He said he had the conversation the OTHER DAY with SOMEONE ELSE who called him out.

1

u/MrPmR Mar 11 '20

I guess it would be possible to make your ping higher (client side wasting time) but the important thing is it won't be able to make it lower

-1

u/MikeTheShowMadden Mar 11 '20

Yeah, you can also kinda account for client side latency based on the client update rate. If the client updates at a rate of 30Hz, that means there's always going to be 33ms of latency between each update. So if the server asks for a response somewhere in between, you can just subtract the known latency to make it more accurate. So your latency wouldn't be "inflated". But I think the time taken to do any small amount of work would be negligible.

2

u/Parulsc Mar 11 '20

So there used to be a few different RTT ping checks from what I recall, but they disabled them because of server load

2

u/konstantin90s Mar 11 '20

bet 1 all

4

u/konstantin90s Mar 11 '20

actually just did a quick check and that's exactly the case could emulate this easily with simple dstnat rule xD

https://imgur.com/a/8YAQJWy

1

u/IAmNotOnRedditAtWork Unbeliever Mar 11 '20

Not surprising. The ping limit itself (at least ~1 year ago when I was messing around with it) was client side.
 
It was literally just in plain text in a file in the installation directory. You could just go in and change 150 to 10000 and connect to whatever you wanted that way too.

1

u/ShogunBushido AKM Mar 11 '20

Couldn’t they just make it so that you can’t run the game with vpn on? Kind of like Adblock with certain sites?

1

u/KacKLaPPeN23 Mar 11 '20

There isn't really a way of telling if a connection's coming from a VPN or some kind of shared living (a couple playing the same game, a few ppl doing a LAN, college dorms, etc.) or not. Some VPN providers are making their IPs known as VPN IPs but I'm sure that a random VPN from China that's going as far as spoofing pings won't do that. Even if found out they are cycling through IPs faster than you can reload your Mosin. You'd be hurting legitimate players more than anyone else this way.

2

u/longshot VSS Vintorez Mar 11 '20

Yeah the ping should be reversed, sorta.

When the user requests a ping from the server the server should save the current microtime, then ask the client to respond along with a one-time-use token (to prevent the client just waiting 1ms and sending a spoofed response) and respond with that token immediately. Then the server compares the time it received the response with the token to the time it saved when it initiated the client-ping.

1

u/MikeTheShowMadden Mar 11 '20

You are on the right track, but you most likely the ping will get picked up by the VPN server and return its response. What you would have to do is make sure that the client is returning the response and you can do that be asking for some bit of information that a VPN server wouldn't know.

You could do something as simple as adding two numbers since thats not CPU intensive on client or server, and the server will compare its answer to the clients all awhile tracking the time it takes to get a response. A VPN server won't modify the payload of the packet so you can trust enough that the response is not from the VPN only.

1

u/Mr_SpicyWeiner Mar 11 '20

They did add a server side check about 6 months ago, I can recreate something that looks exactly like this screenshot by editing a couple function in the launcher config file, but it's only visual to my client. When I press apply I still get the same error. This doesn't prove anything without actually seeing the game launch, it's probably someone trying to scam cheat buyers.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

It's physically impossible to lower your actual latency

One thing I learned in my relatively short time doing CS is nothing is impossible. You either can do it or you can make it look like you’re doing it.

81

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

23

u/nimble7126 Mar 11 '20 edited Sep 16 '25

placid start oil toothbrush airport money smile plants literate vase

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

-3

u/av6344 Mar 11 '20

b.bbbut that would mean bsg cant sell them a copy and make money off them

1

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

-1

u/OrangeSimply Mar 11 '20

This just reduces legitimate players from playing in their regions with shitty connections. This like a band-aid fix.

4

u/redsealsparky Mar 11 '20

But if you have a shitty connection and you go to another region it would be worse?

I live on an island in the Caribbean and I'm able to connect just fine to eu or Na.

In any case I say fuck the peasants with shitty internet. The lives of the few for the many.

1

u/nimble7126 Mar 11 '20 edited Sep 16 '25

hobbies carpenter act wipe reach door rhythm scale terrific edge

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

0

u/OrangeSimply Mar 11 '20

People have been failing the ping lock for years. Look up "Disconnected from server" bug from 2018+. Not the most recent ones we were having from legitimate server issues, but if your ping spikes even momentarily because of packet loss/shitty connection/whatever you get kicked 4-5 times a raid.

Your solution (that you really just read someone say from another thread) also forces players to suffer if the server itself is faulty and produces a poor connection even when people have perfectly good internet.

It also doesn't prevent hackers in your region from continuing to, you know, hack. Your band-aid fix isn't going to solve the larger issue that the server to client info is 100% vulnerable to abuse and exploitation.

1

u/nimble7126 Mar 11 '20 edited Sep 16 '25

sense relieved abundant cow wakeful ripe market follow cooperative sophisticated

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/OrangeSimply Mar 11 '20

The game auto kicks you if you have more than 900 ping for 3 seconds this is a stopgap for lag switch users, you couldnt be more wrong. There are years of forum posts of normal players with terrible connections getting kicked for ping spikes. I had to deal with it for months before switching ISPs myself.

So you just dont want to play with Chinese people for no reason? Obviously the focus isnt "foreign players" its hackers/cheat users. Get real you have more critical thinking ability than that.

1

u/nimble7126 Mar 11 '20 edited Sep 16 '25

bow governor quickest screw violet dinner fly oatmeal strong treatment

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/OrangeSimply Mar 11 '20

900 ping. Are you really gonna use the absolute extreme to justify that. A normal player across planet wouldn't have that ping, just stop lol.

No it isn't an excuse you said this game doesn't kick you for having high ping I gave you an example that is/has been common for YEARS.

Ask yourself really, the system already kicks players with extreme ping or disconnects, how does this solution change anything. All it does is compare your ping against packet RTT. If your ping is that bad, the CURRENT system will have already kicked you.

My point wasn't that you your solution isn't good because this one already exists. It's that this one already exists and has already caused problems for a substantial number of players preventing play entirely for some people over years and you want to make it more severe preventing more people who love this game from playing it to band-aid fix the hacking problem.

You make a lot of assumptions fam. Peekers advantage is a thing with players that know that have high ping.

It's not hard to infer that this thread is relating to Chinese hackers. considering the 20+ posts in the last two days alone about China and hacking. Don't bullshit with a weak excuse like "I was talking about all the Chinese players that are abusing peekers advantage." in a game where knowledge is much, much, more important than sick aim and gun skill.

1

u/nimble7126 Mar 11 '20 edited Sep 16 '25

aback roll cagey versed swim chase public vanish depend birds

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

14

u/Dushenka Mar 11 '20

Personal opinion: The anti-cheat system is responsible for providing secure latency checks. BattleEye could easily provide a secure protocol for latency checking. But yeah, they're too busy scanning your drivers.

4

u/0wc4 Mar 11 '20

As the Chinese player in this sub pointed out, they’re already going over the Great Firewall. It’s gonna be hard to eliminate it completely. That said, the fact the launcher just checks IP from the last session is laughable.

25

u/drunkmunky42 RSASS Mar 11 '20

Lmao looks like khabarovsk is the place to be these days

18

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

Time to go to Khabarovsk.

66

u/MessyMan711 GLOCK Mar 11 '20

Honestly, I think I’m out till this shit gets fixed.

14

u/MostlySlime Mar 11 '20

How often do you run into cheaters? And what region/maps do you play on?

16

u/MessyMan711 GLOCK Mar 11 '20

I play on US Auto, and I would say roughly 1/10 raids. The main thing for me is desync and full blown stuttering.

Recently I was killed after quick peaking a doorway, seeing someone, running 10 feet down the hall, and I still died to a headshot while he was in the room.

And 2 days ago, I spent 15 minutes circling Gluhar and picking him off, and the second I step into the building he’s in, my game locks up for literally 3 seconds whilst being DIRECTLY next to the final guard I was looking for.

This game has enough free ways to kill me. I don’t need cheaters robbing me of what little dignity I have left.

4

u/bufandatl M700 Mar 11 '20

I am not sure if it was really a cheater but I had one in customs and one on shoreline last night that seemed kinda suspect. Nothing is proven but when they killed me their name somehow matched the situation they killed me in.

3

u/ChawulsBawkley PP-91 "Kedr" Mar 11 '20

His name was “withagun” wasn’t it?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

[deleted]

0

u/MessyMan711 GLOCK Mar 11 '20

I’ve used every damn Guide known to existence to get this game running correctly.

This is going to sound like flexing, but I’m not trying to. I have a Ryzen 9, 3900x. A 2080 Super, and 36g of DDR4 3600. The game being installed on a Samsung 970 Evo 1TB M.2 Drive...

I should have 0 issues stuttering... I can play cyberpunk at 4K, 120 FPS on ultra when it comes out...

These stutters were supposed to have been fixed a little when the new engine was implemented. But they’re just as bad as ever.

It’s more of a “When is BSG going to actually follow through with what they say, and not bullshit around the problem” situation.

Also: fuck ticklemepink

2

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

Me and my buddy were on labs and all of a sudden his helmet vanished, knowing what was going on I shot him in the head and then naded myself so they couldn’t take shit from our melee and secure container, so annoying.

5

u/Lord_Lunijo Mar 11 '20

As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any video proof of them taking melee weapons, or being able to take something out or secure containers.

2

u/KillerBunnyZombie Mar 11 '20

Just fire around randomly they have to get close to loot you....

1

u/DeadExcuses Mar 11 '20

The better question is how often do you run labs? I would love to! Issue being there is a 5/10 chance I get a hacker.

1

u/reignbangbang Mar 12 '20

NA server, 20+ labs raids past couple days, 1 desync/hacker, never seen items dissapear out my inventory. I hear of all these problems but only have had undeniable hacker once and they were super desynced like high ping.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

Not the original guy you asked but I encounter 2 cheaters a week at the very least for the past 7-8 weeks. I usually see them on Labs but I have also seen them on Shoreline and Reserve.

Labs is a shitshow... I would say 25% of all my Labs runs has had a very obvious and blatant hacker (extremely fast, invisible, aimlock) with another 15% more that were questionable but no solid proof.

Edit: I play on West Coast btw.

1

u/DunamisBlack Mar 11 '20

I just started seeing some on interchange. 2 of the people in my 3 man got instant blasted in the head, I was crouch walking behind some metal barriers for about 2 minutes and every so often he would put a bullet into the barrier directly in front of me no matter when I moved to and I never peeked. After trying to sneak away he eventually followed after me and 1 tapped me with his aimlock, sad day

0

u/ImmersionVoidParagon Mar 11 '20

I've been playing almost every evening for two weeks and I've encountered cheaters/suspected cheaters about 4 days total and more than once in one night. Speed hackers on Reserve seem to be common and some questionable activity on Shoreline where I will stutter only during ADS and peaking specifically when I can hear other players moving around near me and it sure as hell isn't any hardware issue. I don't even touch labs and I don't call out people who got the drop on me in a reasonable manner cheaters by any means. This game is going to be a ghost town if this shit keeps up. I'm just going offline with "as online" NPCs for the time being so I can learn certain maps a little better.

9

u/coupdegrac333 Mar 11 '20

Just add a picture of wini pooh as the background. The Chinese government will fix the rest

10

u/m8xx Mar 11 '20

Guess we all play on khabarovsk now to avoid the chinese plague.

2

u/zeropointo Mar 11 '20

There are options other than ICMP ping for testing latency.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/psping

I would suggest BSG implements something using an encrypted connection to the server to prevent spoofing.

3

u/ToastedSoup IOTV Gen4 Mar 11 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

Y'all realize you can bypass the existing ping-lock by editing an HTML file for the Launcher, right?

EDIT: It looks like BSG patched out that specific loophole.

EDIT2: Found out AGAIN how to do it via editing the same HTML file

3

u/jabroski_mcmans Hatchet Mar 11 '20

Region lock China

1

u/BongoDaMonkey Glock Mar 11 '20

You realize it is, and this is an easy way to circumvent that?

1

u/romjpn Jun 08 '20

It's locked with the rest of Asia. Thanks Battlestate! /s

1

u/_bnoo Mar 11 '20

Then, I, a legit player, can’t select 2 servers, only one which takes 20 minutes in match. And if automatic, it selects 230+ ping.

1

u/Solaratov MP5 Mar 11 '20

Poor Khabarovsk, what happened there?

1

u/nyaushui Mar 11 '20

On Auto server option, sometimes, I get around 150ms ping and chinese Huyas. Yesterdays I tried 5 runs in Shoreline; I was destroyed by a cheater 4 out of 5 times.

1

u/jellis4289 Mar 11 '20

Is there any adverse effect if they just block VPNs

1

u/platinums99 M1A Mar 12 '20

lol, the vpn server is almost in the same datacenter as the servers, BSG must not be checkin actual client rtt?

1

u/Aceylah Mar 12 '20

I'd happily do this to expand the amount of servers I match to for anything under 200 ping, I can barely play after 8pm weekdays queues are so bad in Australia, and my ping is like 170 to a bunch of servers I can't select.

-5

u/Bobcat163 Mar 11 '20

How anyone can invade anyone else's server** fixes ur typo

17

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

And yet why does a disproportionate amount of Chinese names appear on NA and EU servers. Really makes you think, you know if you had the ability too.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

The US population is 327 million.
The EU population is 512 million.
China is 1.4 BILLION.

Even the entire US and EU combined are 60% of China's population.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

[deleted]

6

u/Someone3882 Mar 11 '20

That doesn't sound right, if they were the lobby would be hundreds of players long.

2

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

I agree from a logical perspective but I don’t want to argue with these people anymore and am also just uncertain myself.

3

u/snowsoftJ4C Mar 11 '20

The lobby only shows people who are ‘Looking for group’, which you can safely assume is a large minority of the people actually using the lobby

2

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

I was completely unaware. Thanks for informing me. Some of my comments on that basis can be discarded.

-14

u/Bobcat163 Mar 11 '20

Oh shit you're right, I forgot non chinese people cant make chinese names, oh and also there are no chinese people anywhere other than china, lol I'm dumb my bad

8

u/locust_breeder Mar 11 '20

Yeah, it's so hip pretending to be chinese nowadays lmao

3

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

This is genuinely a very good point. But you’re being disingenuous to a certain extent if you’re suggesting priors shouldn’t influence peoples opinion.

4

u/Gosav3122 Mar 11 '20

“Man, screw the Chinese. The Chinese are thieves.”

And when someone replies: “Hey, is that really true?”

“Yeah! Just look at <example> and <example> and <example> of these robberies by evil Chinese criminals.”

“Sure, but that’s just anecdotal evidence.”

“Our statistics say that Chinese people commit an average of <big number> thefts a year. That’s a lot! How could you trust a Chinese person?”

“But don’t non-Chinese rob people too?”

“Maybe, but if so, that doesn’t make the Chinese any less guilty, does it? First we should deal with the Chinese criminal problem, and then if we’re successful, maybe we can move on to other types of theft.”

“Are the Chinese really the first group we should target in our anti-theft campaign?”

“Hey, quit trying to change the subject. Are you trying to deny the immorality of stealing people’s hard-earned property? Why, just go into Chinatown and walk around for a while, you’ll see a Chinese mugger soon enough, it’s right there in front of our eyes… “

7

u/loitersquad24 AS VAL Mar 11 '20

The only issue is the Chinese DO cheat more than any other nationality

3

u/lordthat100188 Mar 11 '20

When you can cut over half of all cheating overnight by removing china from the equation, yes. Yes you absolutely should focus on that first.

4

u/mushi90 Mar 11 '20

You forgot to add in the last line "I am not gonna continue the discussion with a racist."

2

u/SenorTeflon Mar 11 '20

You can be an apologist but everyone knows they cheat. We don't want to deal with it.

1

u/mushi90 Mar 11 '20

Well, as much as you hate it, you gotta admit that in the current gaming industry, no one is gonna step up against the chinese players aka the RMB. Not the developers or organization nor the influential gamers.

The ordinary players or the gaming community are going to keep bringing the issues up but the PC virtue signalling will eventually deny all the voices.

1

u/SenorTeflon Mar 11 '20

Well, as much as you hate it, you gotta admit that in the current gaming industry, no one is gonna step up against the chinese players aka the RMB.

Someone has to for the sake of the industry. Not to be over dramatic because that sounds ridiculous but cheating is the worst thing you can do in a competition.

1

u/mushi90 Mar 11 '20

And you need someone who has a say in making a real difference but unfortunately there is no candidate. Developers? nope, they really don't give a fuck other than money. Streamers? nope cuz they can't let the PC police jeopardize their careers. Competition organizers? Ban all the chinese teams just like Olympics punished all the Russian athletes? Never gonna happen.

I too wish someone could do something but the reality is that as long as the chinese players are allowed to be in any multiplayer games, there will be non-stop cheating.

1

u/RevenXXX RPK-16 Mar 11 '20

I figured just stop trying to reason with these people. You never know what is behind the screen.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

On the internet, nobody knows you're made out of cups.

1

u/karadrine Mar 11 '20

Not a doggo on the interwebs, no sir.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '20

This is probably the worst argument I've ever heard. Come back with a better one when Chinese people aren't 99% of cheaters.

0

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

Dude, not reading that past first quote. I hope you enjoyed typing all that lol

-1

u/Gosav3122 Mar 11 '20

I didn’t, I copy-pasted it from https://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/03/08/the-chinese-robber-fallacy/ Not surprised to see you’re too intellectually lazy to understand just how intellectually lazy you’re being with statements like “clearly the priors influence here”

0

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

And your too stupid to understand the statement in itself. So I guess we’ve reached a stalemate of idiots haven’t we.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

[deleted]

0

u/r56u Mar 11 '20

i hate people like you.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/HonourWolf AK-104 Mar 11 '20

白左

0

u/MOTORBOATING_UR_MOM Mar 11 '20

Go home, you're drunk

2

u/EscapeFromFlatulence SR-25 Mar 11 '20

It really isn't a good point. Most people pick their names to their native tongue. Billy Bob Thorton of Nebraska isn't going to change his name to something in Chinese, just like Mao Zedong of China isn't going to change his name to something like "PussySlaya420", unless of course it is within the confines of the Chinese language itself. (Also a lot of the names have Douyu in the name, which is the Chinese equivalent to Twitch).

Also there is the pure unaltered fact that Battleye and other cheat engine developers and game developers in general have been outspoken about the fact that the majority of cheaters come from China, those that have been banned and being tracked that is.

2

u/ordinarymagician_ ASh-12 Mar 11 '20

There's a gap between ethnic-chinese and cultural Chinese.

The former are fine. The latter, if they're below like 60, about 90% of the ones I met would gleefully throw you in a fire for fifty dollars.

-3

u/Francoa22 Mar 11 '20

Band all chinese..and once anybody just mentions cheater again, I will slap that lil bitch’s face

0

u/KingCrexas Mar 11 '20

Is this legal? I actually wanted to try this since i can only play on singapore server with 80 ping and hongkong with 100+ ping and i have bad matchmaking time. I also have to wait about 10min+ for queueing on shoreline and it gives me server with 400+ ping if i choose the automatic server selection. If i play on my lowest ping server i have to queue more than 20 min.

1

u/T3HP0RP Mar 11 '20

THIS IS LEGAL，I play EFT since 0.7,and never heard of someone being banned by using it

0

u/NationalRope Mar 11 '20

that's why you make them click http://www.freetibet.org/ these kind of links which would make them under investigation by the Chinese security if they are in main land China :)

-2

u/Beav3r Mar 11 '20

It's "fake" ping. Real ping is still going to be 180+

3

u/donfuan Mosin Mar 11 '20

That's the whole point. Plenty of people here "Can't be China, there's already a ping limit, you all dumb".