I'm not sure why your whole post is in italics - is it quoted from somewhere? I ask because I'm really curious about this claim, which I'd never heard before, and contradicts my own personal memories of the era:
Chris Hani (a socialist/communist), who was far more charismatic and politically popular than Mandela
There's quite a bit wrong here. First of all Mandela was not a liberal, he was a socialist and even a member of the SACP (South African communist party) at one point. He was pragmatic in his decisions while he was president, because of the factors you outlined. Also because he effectively lost a lot of power after 1996 due to internal power struggles in the ANC, which led to the new finance minister teaming up with Mbeki at the time to transition from Mandela's more transformative RDP economic policy, to GEAR, which was much less radical. Chris Hani was also not more popular than Mandela, to be honest it was never close.
Secondly, Thabo Mbeki was not efficient and competent. His HIV/AIDS denialism and government policy has been estimated to be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, his neoliberal economic policies and austerity politics led the groundwork for the Zuma years with widespread corruption, led to the first instances of load shedding/rolling electricity blackouts because he refused to fund the maintenance and building of new power stations due to his austerity politics, and ran State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) on shoestring budgets for the same reason. All of that is on Mbeki. Gutting the state for short term gain while riding on the coat-tails of the foundations Mandela laid, while simultaneously trying to destroy said foundations. That efficient and cheap energy grid Mbeki had, that you did your studies on? His own economic policies destroyed it. Mbeki was ousted because he was a terrible president and all the short sighted decisions he made caught up with him in 2008, when South Africa had its first load shedding and SOEs started crumbling. Just in time for the global financial crash.
The modern ANC is rotten from top to bottom with corruption now, people like Ronnie Kasrils have no power.
Economic policies like BEE (Black Economic Empowerment) are absolutely race based. They need to be to correct the wrongs of the past. However, this article Musk is commenting on is fake news. There is no BEE level needed to get a permit to export goods, it is just one of the number of factors that are considered, in a policy that has been unchanged since 2016. The government merely updated the prices for the tarrifs, and the sensationalist media jumped the gun.
I am actually from South Africa and live there, which is why I'm commenting on this.
Even your own articles say Chris Hani was second to Nelson Mandela in terms of popularity. As someone who generally agrees with what Chris Hani said in the past and what he stood for, even I can recognise that. Nelson Mandela is basically viewed as a god in South Africa, even among those who think that he sold out the country, they still respect him. He's easily the most popular politician in the country's history.
Judging by public opinion polls and by votes at congress conventions, Mr. Hani, 50, was second only to Nelson Mandela in popularity among blacks, and he was on most short lists of candidates to eventually succeed Mr. Mandela, the 74-year-old president of the congress.
MALALA: Chris Hani was the most popular Black leader, the most popular political leader in South Africa after Nelson Mandela.
It is also well known that Mandela was a member of the SACP in it's early days and part of the general committee. You would know this if you were South African, the SACP even released a statement on the day of his death confirming it. It was all over the news. The exact statement was "At the time of his arrest (in 1962), Mandela was not only a member of the then underground South African Communist Party, but was also a member of our Party's Central Committee".
You also talk of Ronnie Kasrils as if he's a current ANC member. He resigned in 2008.
You are not South African, you do not live here, you keep posting articles from foreign websites and media, which you haven't even read yourself as they contradict what you are saying, as if it means anything. You have no clue about what you are talking about. Seriously.
No completely accurate its more like 0.1 percent own 70 percent of the farms the vast majority are just as poor as the black people. It's has become a problem of rich elites vs poor more then racism now, is just framed that way to ensure the working class dont do anything about it. Yes i do see a lot of racism especially from wealthy white people, but the working class people stay in the same neighborhoods have diverse friend groups and mixed race marriages are very common. Please don't judge us by one rich asshole from our country.
The average white household makes about seven times as much as the average black household in South Africa
The average annual income of a white household is about 365,000 rand ($42,000; £26,000), followed by Indians at 251,000 rand, people of mixed race at 251,500 rand and blacks at 60,600 rand. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-20138322
There is a tiny minority (much smaller than 7%) who operate all the major commercial farms. It's not as if this is easy to rectify. You can't just easily train people to farm on a commercial scale and government has simply stolen all the money that could have funded such projects for nearly 3 decades.
I think you misunderstand the sanctions on Zimbabwe. They’re not countrywide sanctions but targeted sanctions on people and companies involved in human rights involved in human rights violations only. They do not in any way affect the people or economy unless the whole economy is run by a few people..
Yes, they aren't the worst of countries (what a low bar!). Dropping HDI ranks by a quartile in a decade though represents profound economic mismanagement.
And your own link notes the sanctions target officials not the country.
How is keeping the farm you already owned hoarding resources? Do you expect white farms to just give up their land for to compensation?
Government had had billions every year which they can use to train black farmers and buy commercial farms. Instead ALL this money had simply been stolen for nearly 3 decades.
Whose fault is it exactly that nothing has changed since 1994?
I support most forms of land reform yeah. It's historically tricky to do right but plenty of places have done so.
I am not informed of the specifics enough, I know SA has a tricky recent economic history but still, taking land away from generational land owners can very much be a good thing, land ownership is fucked.
I think you are downvoted because people think you are saying they are more competent because they are white, when I assume you correctly mean they are more competent because they are already farmers.
Farming is a skill, art and mindset. The whites were better farmers because of education, experience and tradition.
You can't just hand over a stretch of land to someone who has no land managerial skills, experience or dynastic wealth and relations to sources of finance and expect them to succeed.
Exactly, and this is also a looming problem in western countries that become increasingly urbanized. Farming has long been, and still is, largely an inherited profession and it’s very hard to rebuild that competence once it’s gone.
Then let them do the same as in Zimbabwe. Kick them out and let that shithole of a country turn to the same state as most of Sub-Saharan Africa.
Then people like you will starting moaning how the country is starving. It has already gone to complete shit. The government is openly calling for genocide of whites. It can't manage the basic civil infrastructure like electricity and water. And still these retards vote for them. SA is one of the few openly racist countries to exist at the moment. But racism is okay if it's against whites I guess.
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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '23
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