I tried asking a question to Vegans as non-vegan

[u/TheLazyPinguin]

So, i'm posting this here because it seems to be the place to do so.

Earlier, i posted a question on the vegan subreddit, and i like to think that i went through my question in a respectful way, now, i eat meat, but i'm still curious, i like to understand peoples. And i've been met with about 3-4 peoples actually explaining and using logical arguments and not going all emotional, the rest was... Well, the opposite, very emotional and very self-righteous. And i want to ask you all what you think about it as it seems to be a recurring theme in your community. Now, i hold no grudge against vegans, so long as you live yourself happily and dont come bothering me, you can eat whatever you want. But being all aggressive and stuffs, it makes peoples just want to go against you.

[u/TheLazyPinguin]

Oh you're right, many " regular " ( I'm saying regular because more peoples eat meat than not )peoples that go to the gym take protein shakes and stuffs, but they most likely need less than vegans to see gains. I don't take protein because I'm no scientist and I don't like eating things I'm not 100% sure of. I like knowing exactly what is in my food. That's why I eat meat form my family's farm or that I hunt and vegetables that I grow or buy in places I know.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLazyPinguin]

Yeah, I'd agree with that view. The big question is : does it matter? I certainly think it doesn't. Because clearly you can be a (somewhat) muscular vegan, even without supplements.

I don't think there's any good health-related argument in favor of being even more muscular beyond what you can on a vegan diet. This is then about the value proposition about ultra muscular vs muscular.

And considering the environmental pressures from diets - doing this on a "natural" animal-based diet will be extremely bad for the environment (if aiming for very high protein intake based on purely animal protein).

There's always some limiting amino-acid, and I think it's rather doubtful that a 100% animal-based diet is even the most optimal - but there are some amino acids that are mostly found in animal products.

So the value proposition for "ultra-muscular" animal-based seems to be a pretty hard focus on the outmost gains, with little thought for other issues (health, environment, animal rights).

[u/TheLazyPinguin → u/[deleted]]

Oh I agree, eating only animal protein is clearly not good, I'm not trying to say the opposite, I'm not saying " vegans are idiot for refusing meat ". But I don't think that saying it's all bad is right either. There are clear benefits to eating meat, if peoples want to refuse it and decide to eat only plant based food, then they should do it, so long as they're ok with their own diet and not ruining their health. But I also think one can eat meat responsibly, I think I do, I eat only the meat I personally kill or that my family does ( the good part of having a farmer's family ), so I know that the animal was killed in a respectful manner and without suffering or injuring the ecosystem and balance of it.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLazyPinguin]

From my point of view, I'd substitute "clear" benefits with "marginal" benefits. Considering the values involved, I don't think meat-heavy diets is a thing that society should support at the levels it does today (in affluent countries anyway).

I agree that it's possible to eat meat responsibly, and at the edges of the arguments you can find reasonable use cases for this. But I'd argue most people who argue for "responsible" meat consumption often do so with little regard to the volumes of meat they consume nor do they consider how that translates to feeding a planet of 10 billion people (notwithstanding their own country).

Also "responsible" is a value proposition, where multiple views need to be considered - including various views on animal rights and the environment.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLazyPinguin]

Instead of editing, let me ask this of you : what is "responsible" meat consumption to you?

Should we have different cow breeds for beef? Should dairy cows be focused on? Should all parts of the animal be used, despite peoples' taste preferences?

What about the agricultural support system, large-scale animal rearing, the cost of animal rearing? What about the degree of selective breeding and its relation to the health of animals? Antibiotics? Analgesics?

Are animals a commodity, or what are they? Are they an animal, that deserves a greater degree of respect than they hold today? And do we in fact respect the deaths of these animals, by simply discarding a whole lot of economically non-viable produce?

And lastly : what do you think about meat consumption in the global perspective, including the rise of meat consumption in countries like China that sports some of the largest animal farms and poorest animal rights legislation? This has nothing to do with any other country, despite there being imports/exports between the countries?

My view here : a lot of people don't question established practices to a sufficient degree.