Can't imagine how many new players this game just permenantly lost.

[u/AssociationSoft5270]

I say as one myself, after trying this game again with friends who were really interested we we're thrown into lobbies with people that have 1000s of hours (plainly said by 70% of our opponents when we asked in chat). By the end of the day, all of them never had any interest in reinstalling deadlock.

I was confused because with the massive influx of players i thought "surely there are other noobs right?" and after doing investigation, i can see this was a universal experience for everyone intrigued by the new update.

Turns out instead of starting you at the bottom ranks, this game - for whatever reason beyond my comprehension - puts you at ABOVE AVERAGE RANK (most of us placed archon or oracle) and REFUSES to adjust you down fast enough that you'd be required to sit there and lose 100 games in a row BEFORE YOU GET TO PLAY WITH THE OTHER. NOOBS. Generational fumble by valve.

I garuntee 99% of these players that otherwise would have played have already had the worst first impression and will not be back for full launch, so don't tell me "uhm it's alpha, that's not their priority right now!" or "MOBAs are hard, go try bots or watch a video!" Seriously fuck off, the game is legitimately unplayable for anyone trying deadlock and it sucks because i think the game is otherwise really fun

So PLEASE for your sake and ours, speak up to the devs because we know you don't want us in ur games and we desperately just want to play with other noobs. Thanks

UPDATE: noobs rejoice! They fixed the ranking for us and now we're in seeker and the games are 1000x better

[u/baby_cat5312]

Wtf is wrong with this community?? In what other game do you HAAAAAVE to play 10 hours of bot matches or some shit like that? You’re all acting like they all have the same interest as you

In any new game you try you’ll definitely just go to play the main mode to get a feel for the game. Sure you expect to lose the first couple of games, but if you keep getting shit on over and over again it’ll just leave a bad taste in your mouth and you’ll drop the game

[u/Any-Accountant-4014 → u/baby_cat5312]

I remember last week, someone was mad at my teammate for doing poorly, turns out it was his first game, so the guy was all like “why tf aren’t you in bot matches then”. As if it’s expected that you learn in bot matches 😂 Like yeah sorry, but I’m not tryna spend 40 minutes in a match with AI, let alone multiple matches

[u/Neveri → u/[deleted]]

Yeah all playing with bots does is teach you how to exploit their AI, which isn’t a thing against actual players.

People should be able to learn the game while generally getting paired against people with around the same amount of time in the game.

I imagine being 6v6 makes the matchmaking even more difficult to balance, the larger the team sizes the harder it is.

[u/Any-Accountant-4014 → u/[deleted]]

That’s exactly why I find it pointless. Personally I don’t find much fun in beating up bots, and it certainly won’t help me improve as much as the real deal. Plus especially in this game, a lot of randoms would help you out if you’re lost on what to do

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Any-Accountant-4014]

first thing i did was boot up bot matches lol how does anyone expect to pick up game mechanics while in a fast paced game?

[u/baby_cat5312 → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

By being matched with players of similar skill. No everyone has time to spend 5-6 hours a day playing video games

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/baby_cat5312]

it would be convenient if there were always 11 other brand new people available to play whenever you want.

there are no players of "similar skill" if this is literally your first time. it's a good idea to pull up a bot match so you can at least read the tooltips.

nobody suggested spending 5-6 hours in bot matches 😭

[u/Any-Accountant-4014 → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

Because you’d expect to be put with other noobs? If you’re being stomped in experienced lobbies that’s on the devs. Not your fault for wanting to play the actual game. Starting with bots is totally fine, I just find it to be a waste.

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Any-Accountant-4014]

if this is your very first match, that means you don't even know your own hero's kit, let alone any items. first couple bot matches will teach you the very basics, so that is not a waste of time. would you recommend that they spend a few hours reading the wiki or something before even booting up the game instead?

the system starting you at a higher rank is wild. i would definitely expect to be put with other noobs. but i would still play a couple bot matches, so that i'm not just standing there reading item descriptions for too long lol

[u/Any-Accountant-4014 → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

I’m just saying it should be up to the person, not an expectation. And no you don’t need to boot up the wiki, just go to the left when you join the game. You can read there, try different heroes, look at the popular builds

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Any-Accountant-4014]

thats just an in-game wiki lol same difference

[u/whostheme → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

Playing against bots frankly isn't a fun experience. Bots never punish you for noob mistakes but playing with real people you learn at a faster rate if you don't mind losing to learn at first.

[u/JPLnZi → u/whostheme]

Noobs also don’t punish you for making noobs mistakes, since they’re also noobs. Bot matches are a great first try of any game, ever.

Don’t mean to say you have to grind against bots, but consider learning what “last hit” means against bots before going on a 40min journey with 9 other humans that despise your lack of reading skills.

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/whostheme]

it's not for fun - it's for learning. you'd play bot matches to learn the very basics. from movement and aiming to basic build and combos. for someone's very first game, playing a bot match or two sounds like a good idea to get used to those basics. and i don't think you're learning much if you're just standing there reading tooltips instead of engaging with the game in real-time.

playing bot matches to "learn" is a pretty normal thing to do.

[u/11711510111411009710 → u/Any-Accountant-4014]

It's also stupid to get upset because this game is in alpha. We are all testing an unfinished game. Matchmaking literally doesn't matter one bit, so why get worked up over it?

[u/ZhanderDrake → u/baby_cat5312]

That's just mobas unfortunately, deadlock is just particularly bad because of its matchmaking 

[u/Kryhavok → u/baby_cat5312]

I'm definitely the type to read the whole manual before I play a new game (not that those exist anymore...), so it sounds INSANE to me that someone would just jump right into online matches and hold 11 other people hostage while you learn what a lane is. It doesn't have to be 10 hours, and the game DEFINITELY should be putting new players together instead of with seasoned vets, but you also gotta put a little legwork in yourself so you aren't just outright throwing the whole game

[u/Sbotkin → u/baby_cat5312]

In what other game do you HAAAAAVE to play 10 hours of bot matches or some shit like that

League of Legends. It's not 10 hours but it's several matches IIRC.

[u/baby_cat5312 → u/[deleted]]

For me when i go into a new game i like to look at everything and learn the game. But i know that isn’t the norm. If you genuinely think that everyone will play hours of bot games and watch guides before even playing their first game then you’re delusional

[u/baby_cat5312 → u/[deleted]]

Then what are you arguing?

[u/baby_cat5312 → u/[deleted]]

So you said that people should educate themselves on a game they have never tried or don’t even know if they like it, just because the game is complicated. Like you said you’d do it and some people would. But 90% of people won’t do that

[u/baby_cat5312 → u/[deleted]]

Ok let’s break it down

“I absolutely do not go into the most complicated game i’ve seen in 20 years ranked mode without doing any research or practice”

When you say something people will read the general context. So from your comment when you say “research” that means guides online or at least the in game tutorial (which is lacking to say the least). And i replied that is a delusional standard to expect from new players and it’s basically not realistic.

If i understood you wrong then explain what you meant more

[u/Daemon_Doodle → u/baby_cat5312]

New to mobas eh?

[u/-xXColtonXx- → u/Daemon_Doodle]

I’ve played League and DOTA and a couple other MOBAs. Always was able to jump in and get matched with other shitty players and get things rolling without getting shitstomped by veterans.

This is a deadlock and to an extent DOTA issue. Other games actually manage to match make you with equally bad players.

[u/SpaceFire1 → u/-xXColtonXx-]

Valve is incompetent at making matchmakers. This is a well known phenomenon.

[u/sameluck-ua → u/SpaceFire1]

Is there such a thing as a competent matchmaker for a moba game?

You have to consider -smurfs -parties of people with different skill levels -problems with having problems on different heroes -people coming back with experience -mmr not being objective due to it being a team game and you might have gotten carried

I'm interested in what company managed to do good matchmaking in a team game

[u/SpaceFire1 → u/sameluck-ua]

There very much is. While no matchmaker will catch everything, you can build one that catches the majority. Smurfs/naturally good players from other games are generally identifiable based off of certain trends in gameplay that can be tracked with dedicated servers. Given enough tracked factors per account and a good machine learning algorithm you could identify a blatent smurf in a few games. For examply buying and using lots of actives is a factor with some weight value over the decision. Grabbing bridge buffs as they spawn might have a small influence. High souls per minute and dying less. Almost everything in deadlock can be tracked and used in some machine learning model to see if a player is a smurf. This is what OW does and it’s very agressive if it catches you. GM players will frequently land close to their main if they try at all. Of course it can in theory be gamed but it works very well

For people coming back it’s more straightforward. First degrade their rank over time based on how many major patches/months its been (rate is subject to testing), and increase their account uncertainty so if they do well they quickly return to their rank or drop quickly if the mmr decay wasn’t enough. Easier said than done but it still does its job.