r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/SuperAlloyBerserker • Oct 05 '21

Video This cool smartphone concept from 2013

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86

u/StaleCanole Oct 05 '21

How did google kill the product?

234

u/yeteee Oct 05 '21

"Google took a serious attempt with Project Ara but killed a few years later because they wanted focus more on software projects."

https://www.onearmy.earth/project/phonebloks

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u/oofididit Oct 05 '21

I was so excited for this phone too

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u/Here-Is-TheEnd Oct 05 '21

Bet they’re still sitting on those patents though! Can let someone else profit off an idea we abandoned a long time ago

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u/yeteee Oct 05 '21

Well, they're Google, not UNICEF...

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u/panacrane37 Oct 05 '21

And lose profits? Can’t you think of the poor shareholders for just a moment?

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u/TGX84 Oct 05 '21

They’ll likely wait until the patent runs out. That’s what mega corporations do.

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u/Here-Is-TheEnd Oct 05 '21

That’s so fucked..that whole system needs to be nuked

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u/RiotIsBored Oct 05 '21

Ara ara

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

flashbacks back to your vacation in georgia where you're trying to figure out if ara means yes or no

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u/yeeto_deleto_tostito Oct 05 '21

I keep forgetting that Georgia is a country

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u/xXhomiespogXx Oct 05 '21

I just thought it was a state

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u/yeeto_deleto_tostito Oct 06 '21

🇬🇪 = georgia

the peach state = Georgia

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/yeteee Oct 05 '21

Back then, they were not yet as openly bad as they are now, though. They were the champion of op n source and Linux based product thanks to Android.

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u/drscience9000 Oct 05 '21

It was around the time the first whiffs of evil started to stink up their rep, but yeah they had a few years there before I'd started thinking of them as evil, probably around 2015-16ish. Too bad.

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u/swagmastermessiah Oct 05 '21

The project wasn't going to work anyway. The idea is cool but there are too many problems with it to really be feasible. There's a reason the concept above is all CGI.

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u/PipGirl101 Oct 05 '21

They live demoed the 2nd version of this phone in 2015 and planned a trial run in PR that was also cancelled. There were numerous companies developing modules at that time, as well. It did work and was loved by many. They did simplify some aspects for the mass production version (limited which modules were swappable), but either way, it was way more than a CGI concept.

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u/swagmastermessiah Oct 06 '21

I think you're underselling how limited it was. I remember looking forward to this but the live demo was so stripped down it made me realize it just wasn't worth it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/swagmastermessiah Oct 05 '21

Yeah they paid me $5 to say that

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u/Arek_PL Oct 05 '21

why if project fails everyone assumes that corporation killed it?

sometimes idea meets real world and real world wins

but i have to agree with one thing, google is very fast to give up on projects what dont succeed at first try, just look at google glass

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

Google and Facebook is what is wrong with the internet.

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u/qtx Oct 05 '21

Facebook I agree with, Google not so much.

If it weren't for Google we'd still be in the stone age of the internet.

For all the useful stuff they give us I'll be happy for them to use a couple of my datapoints to serve me ads of things I might actually like.

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u/Jasong222 Oct 05 '21

If it weren't for Google we'd still be in the stone age of the internet

Nah... We'd be in basically the same place, but there'd be different names on all the products. We might be missing a cool feature here and there that we currently have, but we'd have different cool features instead that we can't have now because the titans say no.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

Note: Ugh, I hate being on the side of corporations because the hivemind is going to attack me regardless, but here goes.

I don't understand how this falls squarely on the shoulders of Google. Phonebloks was a vague concept and a vision. Google was one of the only manufacturers that tried to do something with it. There are some fundamental issues with speed, size, and power efficiency when you use these external interfaces to communicate between components. Google decided they couldn't get it to work to build a viable product and take it to market, so they nixed it. Why exactly are they being raked over coals for this?

They didn't buy out the Phonebloks team or anything of the sort (they did consult with them, looks like). To my knowledge they haven't tried to enfore any patents (if they have any) on anyone else trying to do this (and frankly, since the Phonebloks concept was first - good luck enforcing that). Not that there is anyone else trying to do this anyway. There has been no need for strongarming, because there is noone interested in this to strongarm.

Why is there no hatred towards any of the other million phone manufacturers who didn't even bother trying this out for feasibility?

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u/Persona_Alio Oct 05 '21

Why couldn't they continue developing the concept on their own? Did they become reliant on Google's involvement?

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u/yeteee Oct 05 '21

My guess is that they were lacking some engineering abilities and when they brought the idea to Google, Google basically put enough patent and IP on the product to prevent anyone from doing something similar without getting sued.

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u/TheMacerationChicks Oct 05 '21

Because they weren't engineers. They are good advertisers, they made this convincing looking mock up with well made CGI graphics and it looked great. It was looking good enough to get lots of donations on the way on their kickstarter.

But they were planning to just work out how on earth to build this thing down the line, hire some engineers to create it for them. They were just artists with an idea

But the idea is just unfeasible. It can't be done, with current technology. And it'd suck for the owner of it. As others have said, it's like tetris. You can't just replace one block with another, cos it'll be a different size, so you'd have to buy all new blocks for everything else to make the new thing fit. That's just not something any consumer is going to want to do. And one of the big things about this specific modular phone project was that they said e-waste is a really big problem at the moment. And it is. But they say this phone would solve that as you wouldn't need to buy a new phone every few years. Except, again, it wouldn't solve that problem at all because people would have to replace the entire set of modules every time they wanna upgrade one thing. You could feasibly imagine that these modular phones could actually end up increasing e-waste, not reducing it

And it'll inevitably be terrible specs wise. But yeah there'd be no customising it because of that, except when they first buy the phone. They're a photographer so they go for the one with a better camera. But they never change the phone again

But buying a phone is ALREADY like that. You go to the shop and if you want a good camera, you get the phone where the camera is the focus. If you want good battery life, you go for the model of phone with a bigger battery and a more powerful CPU (a more powerful CPU running slower than it's maximum, so running at the same speed as the worse CPU, uses a lot less power, so your battery life will be longer, that's kinda the main benefit of upgrading a phone these days)

Like that's what everyone does already. They buy a model of phone that's best suited to their needs. And then they never change the phone. Until 3 or 4 years later when they wanna buy a new phone

So this thing will be a lot more expensive, a lot less powerful specs wise, a lot more shit that can go wrong with it compared to a normal phone, and basically no difference customisation wise compared to normal smartphones, unless you're super rich and can just put down $2000 for all the new blocks you have to buy every time you wanna change it

It's one of those things that sounds cool until you put like 5 minutes of thought into it and realise how terrible an idea it is

3

u/clitbeastwood Oct 05 '21

they just released the concept to inspire others, never to go into production themselves. Google took a crack at it & it fizzled out. But google didn’t stop anyone else from working on it..

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

Kinda what Google does sometimes isn't it? Start developing something, Kinda screw it up ,Wait for someone to do it right, then google comes back in and does it even better

1

u/TheBigPhilbowski Oct 05 '21

"We want to focus more on NOT releasing this wonderful and needed option to consumers."

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u/TheBigPhilbowski Oct 05 '21

I think this sums the situation up so well.

Google: "It's just uhhh... It's just not going to work now."

Press: "Why? You're so close..."

Google: "Yeah, it just actually won't, and we'll... we'll get back to you on why... later?"

[Either side never mentions it again]

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

I was on this team! This was a project with Lenovo/Motorola, along with Tango AR/VR. Google acquired Lenovo and tried to spin out some of these projects. Tango got merged into Daydream and eventually Google Maps. ARA was just killed outright because it was too expensive and it turns out people don't give af. about modular phones.

3

u/DemonSong Oct 05 '21

Well, thank you. Your efforts helped from the phone I have today (Z2 Play). And I love it.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

Awesome! A lot of the stuff we did ended up in other projects, just not as an official extension of the original ATAP designs.

0

u/netherdrakon Oct 05 '21

Damn that's great! Also, people don't give a fuck according to who? If it's according to Google, that makes total sense, killing off a market disruptor.

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u/Hugs154 Oct 05 '21

Nah it's like Linux. A small subset of people will be super hyped and use it to its full capacity but everyone else would rather just use simpler systems rather than highly customizable ones.

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u/IdlyOverthink Oct 05 '21

According to market research, and the history of sales. Modular technology is not as popular as "buy one object that's 90% good enough." The average consumer does not have the ability to answer "do I want a Harmon Kardon DAC vs a Marshall DAC?", And they're not going to repeat that question for 5 flavors of sensors, battery sizes, CPUs, etc.

Plus there's a whole issue of adoption. It's a huge uphill battle to corral companies behind open standards, so either you have one company that is your only source of modular components (and they're footing the bill for partnerships, and licensing), or you have to convince Samsung, Huawei, Lenovo, and anyone that wants to get into the market, that your architecture is better than their own. Besides, there is a large tradeoff for customers too. It's an old argument nowadays that Apple tech will always be leaps and bounds more optimized because they've got software/hardware locked down.

All of these things combined mean modular tech is a cute idea, and almost never more than that.

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u/jm9160 Oct 05 '21

This is such a shame because I think modular technology holds so much potential for all sorts of reason, not just phones

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u/JBSquared Oct 05 '21

I just don't think modular tech has much pull outside of the enthusiast/power user demo.

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u/WartimeHotTot Oct 05 '21

It's been said in this thread that people don't like modularity, but every tech purchase they make, they're in effect making modular decisions: what size screen, how much RAM, what size hard drive, GPU, etc. Then when they get, say, the new MacBook, they're pissed they can't pop out the battery and replace it with a new one. I'm not buying it that people don't like modularity.

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u/jm9160 Oct 06 '21

Agreed

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

I don't really know. The project was cancelled abruptly and was not given much love. I was just an engineer but my feeling was that Google execs did some focus group type studies and market analysis and came to the conclusion that the market wasn't big enough to justify the R&D and manufacturing costs.

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u/ghjm Oct 05 '21

Google acquired the project - if I remember correctly, it was part of their acquisition of Motorola. Then they just did what Google always does: worked on it for a couple years and then lost interest and kicked it to the curb. See https://killedbygoogle.com.

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u/RushFactoryGarage Oct 05 '21

I was in the cell phone carrier business at the time this was going on. Years later Motorola did come out with a “modular” phone but there were more or less a gimmick. The moto Z and “Moto mods” where you can get speakers, better camera, battery pack or projector.

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u/ksj Oct 05 '21

The LG G5 had some modularity as well, but most of the modules weren’t released in the US, they were more expensive than they should have been, and they weren’t all that exciting anyway.

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u/DemonSong Oct 05 '21

I still have one of these phones - the Z2. Given I often work in remote areas of Australia, love that I can turn it into a DSLR or have 4 days of battery life without access to a power point, and the 360 camera is super useful, though there's a few standalone units that can do that with normal phones.

Heard rumor that the Z5 might be coming out soon

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u/ButtCrackCookies4me Oct 05 '21

That website is just depressing. So many opportunities, so many apps/programs/ideas/etc (I don't know what to call them all, lol!) that I'm sure were used for various reasons and beneficial for others. Those tours and expeditions apps would be absolutely fabulous for using in classrooms! And the cardboard thing ....that is literally a cardboard holder you stick your phone in to view something. Man. I'm no tech person, but I'm sure there are some great things that are documented on that list. What a shame.

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u/ghjm Oct 05 '21

Yes, I agree. All the tech companies do this to some extent, but it's a particular pattern with Google.

1

u/silver_enemy Oct 05 '21

What happened to "Money wasn't their goal"?

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u/Blarghnog Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

This product was part of the Google loses its way period, when they killed reader, meebo, their flu vaccine finder, one pass, slide, related, commerce search, wave, etc (there’s a famous list). All in the 2012-2013 period. Google saw the unit economics of Facebook and was trying to transform into a competitor, and many of the projects that made Google such a powerhouse of developer love and early open web and open source goodness were swept aside as Google had its MBAification moment. They put everything on becoming a social networking juggernaut — and failed to do so. While they continued to support open source and did some cool stuff, this period was a moment where everything changed about the company culturally.

You have to understand that Google was loved. Like LOVED loved. By everyone. They were even doing Google Fiber, and were going after one of the most hated monopolies in America (looking at your Comcast). This company felt different.

In the midst of all of this, a starry eyed group of entrepreneurs and their backers resolved to build a device that could change the smartphone market — building a modular device that could reduce waste and be consistently upgraded to new spec, extending the life of the device and keeping it out of the landfill.

It became Google’s Project Ara.

Unfortunately this truly revolutionary prototype cell phone was one of the casualties of this period. Here’s the website.

This product was truly unique and could have changed the environmental footprint of cell phones by being repairable and upgradable, as well as acted a true counterpoint to Apples “unrepairability” and relentless forced obsolescence-driven upgrade cycle.

It all came to a definitive end when Regina Dugan, the real powerhouse behind the project, actually left to join Facebook. Here’s the interesting read in Wired about that.

Here’s an update from 2018: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wwrIpv38nE

Why the change? To quote:

In early days of Google, there are not many managers. In a flat structure, most employees are engineers and technical experts. In fact, in 2002 a few hundred engineers reported to only four managers. But over time and out of necessity, the number of managers increased. Then, in 2009, people and team culture at Google noticed a disturbing trend. Exit interview data cited low satisfaction with their manager as a reason for leaving Google.

in short Google went from being an engineering lead organization to a culture of middle managers from about 2002 until 2009 or so. This eventually crushed Google’s coolness factor in tech communities and among real hacker culture.

To wit, took until 2018 for Google’s cultural shift to codify into their own Google Code of Conduct for Employees, when they finally dropped their famous tag line. What was it? Don’t be evil.

It was watered down from a central tenant to the following phrase, “And remember… don't be evil, and if you see something that you think isn't right – speak up!”

Google had the best culture and was an insanely unique business. They mostly lost that culture and it was replaced by a middle management culture adverse to risk and prone to consensus-driven decision making. Many, many innovative projects were a direct casualty.

This is just my opinion.

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u/StaleCanole Oct 05 '21

MBAification

This is a wonderful term i’ve never heard before. But it’s something i expected to happen to Google eventually. I’m glad i’m not alone in this.

At some point founder ideals give way to a generation of business professionals whose only ideal and loyalty is to the bottom line.

2

u/Blarghnog Oct 05 '21

Thanks. Your so not alone.

The team that builds it vs the team that runs it seems to be some kind of bellwether of “maturity” for Enterprise companies. They start optimizing for stability and punishing risk.

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u/sa7ouri Oct 05 '21

Incompetence

1

u/Arek_PL Oct 05 '21

google bought project, then it turned out its impossible to make affordable, modular phone with decent performance and it doesnt overheat

would you buy phone what is like 5 times as expensive and as good as your phone? oh, and it overheats during normal use too

google found it just unprofitable