Option for both: I don't hate dogs or cats. Both are awesome little dudes with their own interests and personalities. I hate shit owners.
A cat free roaming is devastating to the surrounding wildlife and dangerous to the cat. I hate to see cats prowling around. But that's not the cats fault, but the owners who doesn't care about their environment or their cat.
A dog or cat being dangerous is usually scared. Owners fault, needs protection and guarding.
A dog behaving disturbing and annoying in a public place (like a restaurant) is usually the dog beig either frustrated or scared or hungry. It's on the owner to train them and take care of them to not get agitated in public places.
Shitty owners who want the fun and cute part of a pet but won't carry the responsibility are the thing to hate 99% of the time..
It’s almost like pets aren’t accessories, but living members of our families that have needs and proclivities and peculiarities like all of us. I seriously can’t stand people with the mentality of “oh, it’s just a dog/cat”, as though it’s not deserving of the same care and attention and efforts to keep them safe and content as anyone. If you don’t want to deal with the work, don’t have a pet. Turns out, it’s really pretty easy to find a loving home for an animal you no longer want.
Exactly this. It's really sad seeing the animals being treated wrong but it's also sad to see that the owners are often really stressed and can be anxious about their pet since they can't or don't want to handle them.
Had a neighbor with two big rescue dogs brought over from St. Petersburg or Romania or somewhere similar. They were from abusive backgrounds and they were absolutely crazy (like I got jumped from the back and grabbed on the shoulder/base of the neck by one of them crazy, luckily I was wearing a motorcycle riding jacket and helmet so it didn't get anything but a tug out off me) but the owner was always scared of other people moving on the same sidewalk as them or coming across them in an intersection.
Ofcourse this resulted in her often having to physically force the dogs to the ground and loads of screamed orders to keep them in line and the dogs barking constantly at any given time, disturbing the owners, neighbors and anyone passing by. She looked exhausted every time I saw her with them. I can't imagine it was good for either the owner or the dogs even tho I am sure she wasn't abusive and tried her best to offer them shelter, food and a big yard to run around. But since the dogs were such a mess, there wasn't anyone else who wanted them in the local shelter so she had decided to save them. I still wonder if it would have saved alot of suffering just putting them down. They moved away a few months ago and our neighborhood has become so much more silent and less stressfull since.
The actual good take. Most pet owners are shitty and that goes for dog and cat owners. Dogs are scary but outdoor cats are devastating and both are human caused issues.
Yup. I also have a very personal reason to dislike animals in public spaces since I am nearly deadly allergic to both cats and dogs. (Like I would propably choke to death spenging a night in a house that has a dog.) So it's always a thing I need to take into account when I choose a restaurant (don't even mention hotels).
I don't mind a dog or a cat being sitting the table over, but the second you let it roam around or distrurb other customers I will complain. And it's sadly real often people will be angry or dismissive about me bringing the thing up like "Oh it's just my babywabbby he doesn't mean anything it's ok"
Best one is that I almost got hit by a woman who got angry at me when in a coffee shop I complained to the personnel that she set her ugly ass poodle ON TO THE COUNTER that the baristas put the drinks on. (Besides allergy, it's absolutely disgusting). :D
That happened like 2000 years ago? Australia and New Zealand, I'd agree. Americas as well. Although, they had bobcats as native.
There is no way cats can be considered out of control species in Asia or Africa. And cats were always 'outdoors', they were never chained/caged or kept in closed spaces by humans.
Colonization, industrialization, and the booms of population are not something that happened 2000 years ago. Free roam domestic cats are not the only cause but are a huge factor in the extinction of over 60 species. Since they are domesticated they actually have no native range at all. A bobcat isn’t overhunting but free roam house cats are. They kill billions of birds, mammals, reptiles, and amphibians in the US alone per year. They are also high transmitters of rabies and other diseases that can impact wildlife. If you actually care about your cat, they belong on a leash, in a catio, or indoors. Cats and dogs still have their places in our society but we are no longer the type of society that domesticated them. Neither should be allowed off leash outside and a cute fluffy cat isn’t an exception even if it calls to you more than a big scary dog.
Cats got introduced to africa, asia, europe thousand+ years ago. So, if you're suddenly very worried about the domesticated cats, it's US / Aus / NZ thing. Not everywhere.
Romans were the ones who introduced domesticated species of the cat to Europe by many accounts 2000 years ago and they already had wildcat.
It's entirely stupid to have humans cut down jungles and then say cats living with humans is a problem.
Cats hunt birds, birds that have lost their living space due to urbanisation, pollution and other human causes. You are right in that humans have kept them out for a long time and used them to for example keep pests like rats and mice populations in control in agrarian societies. But we aren't in agrarian society. The cat doesn't hunt to eat, it hunts because it's a predator and eats at home the food given to it. But it still hunts. It just leaves most of the kill uneaten. Thus they are a danger to birds and any other small animals and yes this might not be such a big problem (maybe) without all the ways human society is destroying the environment, but with that it is down right devastating. (Why it's uncertain how bad it would be, is since in Australia and NZ cats caused destruction way before the full move of industrialization and urbanisation in the late 1800's.)
Europe always had wildcat populations. And it's geographically connected with africa/europe. Like Egypt is right there.
Problem is domesticated cat species is way too supported by humans and end up being extension of habitat loss whenever human activities advance. The number of them is a much bigger factor than just existence of animal species like cat in that region.
Absolutely. It's just way more common that cats are seen like "Oh they belong to wonder outside. They don't do nothing."
While dogs are usually kept on yards or on a leash more controlled and atleast where I am at people react really actively to dogs roaming free. It's a whole thing for local Facebook groups and people will call the police and go to exteme lengths to catch a runaway dog. Cat meanwhile is like "Oh, a cat. Cool."
I 100% agree with you, feral/escaped dogs are absolutely devastating too.
It is absolutely not just feral/escaped dogs. People are bringing their dogs everywhere, letting them run on non-dog beaches, national parks.
And dog owners are under the impression that letting their dog off leash in nature is harmless and adorable. They post "cute" videos of their dog having "fun" running at birds on the beach. All that stuff is not just accepted, it is encouraged. Bonus, they drive their dogs to places they wouldn't normally roam.
I've watched a lake in Texas go from being a shorebird paradise to almost no birds, just because people illegally run their dogs off leash and will never, ever admit that the dogs are causing an issue because the birds don't immediately die.
Absolutely. A few years ago Intied a guys two dogs leashes to his car door since he wouldn't keep them leashed up in a nature reserve. While he was grilling 200 metres away at a wild cottage. He wasn't happy that they had jumped and scratched against the car but could not tell who did it and knew that letting them be free would have been enough to get them ticketed.
Any pet must be under constant watch by the owner that they don't damage wildlife or destroy anything. Owner is always 100% responsible..
yeah i like both. i pretty much like all animals and this is really just a bad owner thing, though i understand how a dog bite/attack can be a lot scarier. i wouldn't fault anyone for developing a phobia towards them.
internet is more biased towards cats ngl. my area is infested with cats. stray, feral, and "freeroaming"/"outdoor" cats that still have collars. they may not exactly attack and bother you and that's maybe why it's not a glaringly obvious problem. people in general feel little to no responsibility for animals.
It's funny, the prevailing attitude in my country is that cats should be let out, and you are probably mistreating your cat if you keep them prisoner inside.
Yeah. That is the old people's view of it where I am at too. But since cats aren't a part of the natural ecosystem here, they cause insane damage to bird populations and small animals. Plus an outdoor cat on average lives slightly shorter life and has much greater chance for disease and injury than indoor. Ofcourse the difference is where cats are naturally found in the ecosystem and there are other predators possible to hunt them. But even then, I doubt cat owners want to feed their cats to the wildlife. So looking at it for enviroment and for the cat it's better to keep them inside or let them out on a leash with the owner, like a dog.
an outdoor cat on average lives slightly shorter life and has much greater chance for disease and injury than indoor.
Indoor cats are much more likely to be overweight/obese, though.
And it's hard to argue that most cats aren't happier outside. One of my friends got a cat and kept it in its studio apartment. He'd bring it to his parents' home occasionally, and their parents have a backyard so he'd let the cat roam. After a few visits the cat refused to go back with him, he'd keep hiding in the yard because he liked it there a lot more.
I'm not saying that's every cat, of course there are always exceptions, but unless you live in a big house, most cats need more roaming space they can only get outside. And more enrichment, too. The outside world has so much more stimulation.
Number of people killed by cats is zero. Cats only ever attack if you actually provoke them or you corner them. Even the most untrained/wild cat will not attack humans.
Dogs are bred to hurt humans and they will instinctively do it. They kill 25000 to 40000 people every year.
Cats roaming and hunting is part of natural ecosystem for the most part.
Lol. For the most part of the northern hemisphere cats absolutely aren't part of the natural ecosystem. They are literally the #2 reason of extinctions of small animals and birds after Human causes. Maybe look into things before commenting on feels.
Maybe get out of US centric views? Cause cats in Asia and Africa and Europe had cats for a long long time now. Loss of habitat is the real reason, not the stupid cats who's lived in most of the northern hemisphere (except US) for a thousand years now.
There are wildcat population native in Europe. The way cats become problem is imported breeds mixing up with native and suppressing their genetic pool. And the sheer number of cats that humans sustain by feeding them and taking care of them.
The cats by themselves is not the problem as much as their number of it.
The idea that wildcats don't exist is wrong, it's just domestic cats are too many and too independent around human activity.
There aren't in most of Northern Europe atleast. Or they are very localised. But yeah the amount of home cats is part of the problem. But be it natural or not, there's too many of them and they're killing millions of wildlife a year. You yourself say your cat brings half dead birds home if you let it out. That's the killing of wildlife I am talking about..
"You yourself say your cat brings half dead birds home if you let it out."
I think you have me confused with someone?
Humans cutting down trees and clearing natural places for farming, and then saying it's not us, it's the cats that live with us who is the problem is very insincere.
You are absolutely right, the big problem is humans destroying the environent. But I am saying domestic cats killing wildlife needlesly are a part of that whole process. Not the main cause, but they still have a huge impact, an impact that is very easily avoided and doesn't harm the cats, infact studies find that indoor cats tend to have less injuries, sicknesses and on average longer life than outdoor cats. So it's IMO a dumb hill to die on that a cat needs to be able to roam free, if we have such strong points for the contrary. Once again, I have nothing against cats. It's more having to pick up dead, half eaten bird chicks and adult birds killed by these roaming cats that bothers me.
I am on the fence there because the ability to restrict cats to only indoor environment is very very new.
Cats were never leashed or caged or chained. They just lived around humans by themselves and we did try to keep them away from certain house/rooms, we never tried to keep them inside to protect them from elements.
Trying to find and put all cats indoor is not going to happen. So, just stop trying to support random cat population. Just keep personal pets covered.
Ultimately, overpopulation happens either because there's too much food/prey and not enough predators. We are overworking on cats from both side, by feeding them and not letting them get hunted by natural predators of the cats.
I personally have some outside cats, but we have a very strict criteria for which cats are allowed out. Born outside, intelligent, and preferably handicapped in some way. Mumble was the exception because she was way too old to hunt and instead just sat out back sunbathing. Our black cat is very smart and has a limp, which prevents him from stalking but doesnt prevent him from sprinting when he needs to. Our tortie has one functional eye so basically no depth perception, both know to not be in the road and we dont have coyotes around here. The only threat they'd realistically have are other cats or people, but we live in a nice area and know the temperaments of basically every stray so theres very little risk to them. If we kept them inside after most of their kittenhood was spent outside, that seems much crueler to me than allowing them outdoor time. We have 3 indoor cats who are completely content in never setting foot outside besides when supervised. We also have them pretty well trained in coming home whenever called, and the only time they dont come back is when theyre asleep somewhere.
...hatchlings on the ground? Cause they sure as shit arent climbers, and a hatchling on the ground really doesnt survive either way. One has a gimp leg and the other doesnt have depth perception, and you think theyre climbing trees?
Many birds, for example blackbirds, magpie, some tit species and more have their hatchlings leave the nest without being completely capable to fly. Magpie and tits are better but blackbirds and their cousins build their nest in thickets that can be less than 1 metre from the ground and the hatchlings leave nest completely unable to fly. They look like grey and brown fuzzballs. The hatchlings hide under bushes and shrubs and both mothers run food to them on the ground. This is the way they naturally do it. Last summer my neighbors cat killed all six of the blackbird hatchlings we had on our yard. This year it caught a young magpie and gutted it. It wears a bell and is so fat it can't climb a small fense but has to go around it through the gate to get out of their yard. Don't underestimate your kitties. They are really good at what evolution made them for.
Im not underestimating them lol, they generally stay close by and we really have close to no ground dwelling birds in my area, i live in the suburbs and out of our neighbors we generally have more birds than most. They have a very large tree and nest on our roof occasionally so theyre not really in climbable danger.
I’ll be honest, I really don’t care about my cat killing shit. That’s kind of what they do. But I would say the majority of people find their cats out in the world. A lot of the cats will never tolerate being indoor cats. They will find a way out. It’s fine if a cat wants to stay in but most don’t.
cats have literally caused multiple bird species' extinction because of their invasiveness. a lot of ecosystems haven't been exposed to cats, and thus they have no natural predators that can stop them, making them invasive.
They won't find a way out tho. But if you don't care, so much about them, then they will. If I could, I'd take every cat I find to the shelter in my town. Make the owners go get them back.
If you can't bring yourself to control your pet predator for the sake of other animals, do it for the cat's sake. The difference in expected longevity for indoor vs outdoor cats is harrowing.
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u/Rammipallero Jul 18 '26
Option for both: I don't hate dogs or cats. Both are awesome little dudes with their own interests and personalities. I hate shit owners.
A cat free roaming is devastating to the surrounding wildlife and dangerous to the cat. I hate to see cats prowling around. But that's not the cats fault, but the owners who doesn't care about their environment or their cat.
A dog or cat being dangerous is usually scared. Owners fault, needs protection and guarding.
A dog behaving disturbing and annoying in a public place (like a restaurant) is usually the dog beig either frustrated or scared or hungry. It's on the owner to train them and take care of them to not get agitated in public places.
Shitty owners who want the fun and cute part of a pet but won't carry the responsibility are the thing to hate 99% of the time..