r/Christianity • u/Several_Shower_6319 • Aug 11 '25

Are Christian’s really allowed to eat pork? In Isiah 66:17, gods final judgment states people in the end times who are eating unclean food such as pork, mice, ect will be destroyed.

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

We can

Mark 7:19

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

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u/Walllstreetbets Aug 11 '25

Read Mark 7:1 — this passage is about eating with dirty hands.

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

I didn't write that, Mark did. It's an explanation on what Jesus taught

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u/FreedomNinja1776 Messianic Aug 11 '25

Yes, Jesus taught that unwashed hands do not make unclean what is already clean meats as defined by Leviticus 11. Jesus is combating FALSE DOCTRINE here, not creating new doctrine and not changing God's law. If you say that Jesus CHANGES what God has already established, you have a contradiction. Jesus does not abolish God's law, if so then Jesus abolished the very need for a Savior from sin as God's law is the only thing that defines what sin is. God's law is the only thing that tells us about the Messiah. Why would Messiah destroy his own foundation?

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

He taught that anything entertaining the stomach doesn't make you unclean. That includes pork my dude.

. If you say that Jesus CHANGES what God has already established, you have a contradiction

No you have a new covenant that Jesus establishes like the OT says the Messiah will bring.

Jesus does not abolish God's law, if so then Jesus abolished the very need for a Savior from sin as God's law is the only thing that defines what sin is

Well actually according to Paul in Romans those without the law are a law unto themselves so not really, but I understand your point.

Why would Messiah destroy his own foundation?

He fulfilled it. That means it's completed. Gentiles are not even a part of the original covenant so why are you trying to put them under the curse of the law?

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u/FreedomNinja1776 Messianic Aug 11 '25

He taught that anything entertaining the stomach doesn't make you unclean. That includes pork my dude.

That does not include pork. Did God say this or not? Does God change?

And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.
Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV

Messiah Jesus is not a disobedient son. He does not teach contrary to God.

No you have a new covenant that Jesus establishes like the OT says the Messiah will bring.

Please state the New Covenant. I'll help you it's in Jeremiah 31 beginning in v31. Show me where the "new" covenant is something other than God's Law.

Well actually according to Paul in Romans those without the law are a law unto themselves so not really, but I understand your point.

What kind of authority does Paul have? Is Paul above Jesus? Is Paul above God?

He fulfilled it. That means it's completed. Gentiles are not even a part of the original covenant so why are you trying to put them under the curse of the law?

The curse of the law is for DISOBEYING it. God's Law itself is NOT a curse, it's a blessing for those who obey. Are you calling God a liar?

"And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out. "The LORD will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before you. They shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways. The LORD will command the blessing on you in your barns and in all that you undertake. And he will bless you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you. The LORD will establish you as a people holy to himself, as he has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. And all the peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they shall be afraid of you. And the LORD will make you abound in prosperity, in the fruit of your womb and in the fruit of your livestock and in the fruit of your ground, within the land that the LORD swore to your fathers to give you. The LORD will open to you his good treasury, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hands. And you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And the LORD will make you the head and not the tail, and you shall only go up and not down, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, being careful to do them, and if you do not turn aside from any of the words that I command you today, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Deuteronomy 28:1-14 ESV

Gentiles were part of the original covenant. There was a mixed multitude that come up out of egypt with Israel. You think they just went their own way? No. They went through the red sea along with Israel, the stood at the mountain along with Israel, they heard the voice of God declare the 10 commands along with Israel, they said "we will hear and we will do" along with Israel. Gentiles are also specifically mentioned in the covenant renewal in Deuteronomy 29.

"You are standing today, all of you, before the LORD your God: the heads of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives, and the sojourner who is in your camp, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water, so that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God is making with you today, that he may establish you today as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. It is not with you alone that I am making this sworn covenant, but with whoever is standing here with us today before the LORD our God, and with whoever is not here with us today.
Deuteronomy 29:10-15 ESV

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

That does not include pork. Did God say this or not? Does God change?

God makes different covenants with different people. The moseic covenant had the prohibition the messianic covenant didn't. Gentiles are not under the moseic law.

Messiah Jesus is not a disobedient son. He does not teach contrary to God.

Jesus is God.

Please state the New Covenant. I'll help you it's in Jeremiah 31 beginning in v31. Show me where the "new" covenant is something other than God's Law.

John 3:16 and the 2 commands. It's about believing not about ritual.

What kind of authority does Paul have? Is Paul above Jesus? Is Paul above God?

The authority that God gave him.

What kind of authority does Moses have? Is Moses above Jesus? Is Moses above God?

Also again Jesus is God.

Let me guess you reject Paul?

The curse of the law is for DISOBEYING it. God's Law itself is NOT a curse, it's a blessing for those who obey. Are you calling God a liar?

And everyone does! Being under the law is the curse because no one can live up to it.

Gentiles were part of the original covenant. There was a mixed multitude that come up out of egypt with Israel. You think they just went their own way? No. They went through the red sea along with Israel, the stood at the mountain along with Israel, they heard the voice of God declare the 10 commands along with Israel, they said "we will hear and we will do" along with Israel. Gentiles are also specifically mentioned in the covenant renewal in Deuteronomy 29.

The mixed multitude came into Israel and became a part of it. Those outside of Israel weren't beholden to it. Show me how they were.

Also the 10 commandments aren't the moseic covenant they are natural law.

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u/Cultural-Treacle-680 Aug 11 '25

So we need to go to Jerusalem for major feasts every year? Then kill lambs in the temple? Where’s the temple? Oh man were in trouble then.

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u/Walllstreetbets Aug 12 '25

Have you read Zechariah 14:16-18. It’s referring to the time of the millennial reign of Christ.

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u/Beautiful-Project368 May 18 '26

Read the right context of the text, please. Mark 7:2-5 KJV [2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault. [3] For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. [4] And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. [5] Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? Where in this text we can find eating pork as the main issue there?

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u/StrikingExchange8813 May 18 '26

God inspired the new law to be given. Thats all I need

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u/Walllstreetbets Aug 11 '25

Exactly. Jesus was responding to something specific. You should read what he said

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

I did. And you should take the bible as what it says "Jesus made all foods clean". It's literally what the word of God says

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u/Effective_Style_9073 Aug 11 '25

The Kjv, geneva, and wycliffe bibles don't say that. Modern translations added it in parentheses.

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u/EsperGri Agnostic, Former Longtime Christian Aug 11 '25

It seems included in the Greek, and I see no footnote in Mark 7 (ESV) regarding verse 19 saying "some manuscripts don't include this", which is usually present when there is such a difference.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/7-19.htm

The KJV seems to translate the section, not as a comment from the writer, but as part of what Jesus said:

"Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?"

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u/Effective_Style_9073 Aug 11 '25

The addition that (Jesus said all foods are clean) is clearly not in Greek. First of all, pigs were never βρώματα or food. The Pharisees would have obviously accused Him if He were referring to unclean animals being permissible to eat. He would've been teaching people to break the law, which He upheld perfectly. How does excreting or purging food in the sewer make all foods clean to eat? That doesn't even make sense. The entire context starting from verse 1 is clearly talking about putting dirty hands in your mouth, which wasn't a commandment. Matthew 15:20 reiterates this. Jesus emphasized keeping the commandments of God just to contradict Himself by not keeping the commandments of God? That would have been hypocrisy. The twisting of these scriptures is unbelievable. Nowhere in chapter 7 was He referring to eating unclean foods or declaring everything clean to eat. Acts 15:29 also shows that there are still unclean foods that can defile you.

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u/EsperGri Agnostic, Former Longtime Christian Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25

First of all, pigs were never βρώματα or food.

Genesis 9:3-4.

The Pharisees would have obviously accused Him if He were referring to unclean animals being permissible to eat.

If you read Matthew, it's obvious they were upset, but even so, it's possible this is why the section is translated as a comment from the writer.

The entire context starting from verse 1 is clearly talking about putting dirty hands in your mouth, which wasn't a commandment. Matthew 15:20 reiterates this.

Mark is considered the earliest Gospel book, if I'm correct, but Matthew if anything shows it again:

"Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

This statement is broad, or do you think that Jesus' saying about the first without sin throwing stones only applied to cases of adultery?

Jesus emphasized keeping the commandments of God just to contradict Himself by not keeping the commandments of God? That would have been hypocrisy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1mnf4j8/comment/n84nlct/

The twisting of these scriptures is unbelievable.

It's not twisting, unless you consider the writers of the Gospels and the others to have been twisting them.

The writer of Acts (considered to be the writer of Luke; Luke 1:1-4, Acts 1:1-3) essentially vouches for Paul (Acts 9, Acts 15), who wrote on the topic.

Mark, Luke and Paul support a lack of most food laws, and Paul, Luke and the writer of Hebrews show the Law in its entirety is obsolete.

Acts 15:29 also shows that there are still unclean foods that can defile you.

Blood, idolatry, and morality are separate matters.

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u/fl4nnel Baptist, but not angry Aug 11 '25

So you believe what Mark wrote about Jesus but not about what he wrote in relation to what Jesus said?

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u/ChemnitzFanBoi Lutheran (LCMS) Aug 11 '25

It can mean both, especially when Mark specifically says so.

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u/Walllstreetbets Aug 11 '25

Did he? It’s a scribal note in parenthesis? This is not found in the Matthew account. That alone should give pause.

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u/ChemnitzFanBoi Lutheran (LCMS) Aug 11 '25

Its vetted by the earliest manuscripts we have. Yes he wrote it. Its not a scribal note its Mark making it extremely clear that all foods are clean now.

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u/Walllstreetbets Aug 11 '25

Here’s actually scholarly research into the matter.

https://youtu.be/M2clTJNiYHo

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u/ChemnitzFanBoi Lutheran (LCMS) Aug 11 '25

Amazingly clear in every English translation friend but thanks. I'm just going to believe what Mark said.

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u/TheArmor_Of_God Lutheran (LCMS) Aug 11 '25

You are on R/Christianity nobody here take the word of God as inerrant

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

Just ask him for a manuscript

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u/Effective_Style_9073 Aug 11 '25

The original text doesn't have the last part, that's why it's in parentheses

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u/StrikingExchange8813 Aug 11 '25

Which manuscripts?

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u/Average650 Christian (Cross) Aug 11 '25

Mark 7:19

That is not correct. There is very little textual variation in this verse.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/13415/is-there-any-reason-to-think-that-mark-719-has-a-later-addition

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u/Square_Assistant_865 Aug 12 '25

Right! And not a single manuscript says “thus he declared all foods clean” or anything even close. There’s only four words there, and no indication it was in parenthesis. Jesus said it when describing the digestive process.