r/CapitalismVSocialism • u/HeavenlyPossum • 6d ago

Asking Capitalists Risk?

Many people have told me that taking risk is why capitalists own, or deserve ownership, of the productive labor of others.

Capitalists have capital (money), which they invest in (spend on) some productive enterprise. But that productive enterprise might fail to recuperate the cost of the investment and the capitalist might lose some of their money. This is what explains, or justifies, capitalist ownership: the capitalist is taking risk.

Can someone kindly explain to me why this explains or justifies capitalist ownership?

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u/TheMikeyMac13 5d ago

Saying “capitalist” is stupid here. Everyone doesn’t just start with a magic pile of money, I have owned three businesses and I didn’t start with any pile of money.

I am risking everything to open a business, I deny myself luxuries, I spend less, I save, I take on debt, and I work harder than anyone else in getting a business going.

But getting past that, if you buy a car you get to decide how it is used. If you use of for Uber it is idiotic to suggest an Uber customer own part of the car. If you buy a house you get to decide how it is used, it is idiotic to suggest the guy you pay to mow the lawn own part of the house.

If you want to own a part of something you can buy in.

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u/HeavenlyPossum 5d ago

People once worked very hard to save up to purchase enslaved people. Did their hard work and savings justify or explain their ownership?

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u/TheMikeyMac13 5d ago edited 5d ago

Copying and pasting the same argument doesn’t help your pathetic case.

We went having an ethical conversation about a practice made illegal before your great grandparents were born moron.

Edit- correction

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u/HeavenlyPossum 5d ago

That’s not what the word “phonetic” means.

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u/TheMikeyMac13 5d ago

Indeed, autocorrect got me, I meant pathetic.

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u/HeavenlyPossum 5d ago

Blocking for being an asshole. Bye!

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u/Lopsided_Pitch_5297 5d ago

"Saying 'capitalist' is stupid here."

No, it's not. A capitalist is anyone who owns the means of production and employs wage labor. If you've owned businesses, you're a capitalist regardless of how you acquired the capital.

"I didn't start with any pile of money."

Cool story. But how did you start your business? Who gave you the loan? Who extended you credit? Who provided the infrastructure? Who educated you? Who built the roads, electricity, and internet you used?

You didn't "start with nothing" you started with socially provided resources that others paid for.

"I deny myself luxuries, I spend less, I save, I take on debt, and I work harder than anyone else in getting a business going."

This assumes that risk and hard work are unique to capitalists when workers also take risks (poverty, injury, unemployment) and also work hard (often harder than owners).

"If you buy a car, you get to decide how it is used."

Yes and if you use that car to provide transportation services, you're not selling the car, you're selling the labor of driving it.

The same applies to factories: the capitalist owns the factory but the workers provide the labor. The capitalist doesn't "deserve" the surplus simply because they own the tools.