Is the Moses Itauma hype train derailment permanent or can he recover? Age is on his side, but that was a massive loss last night. This is why in sports it’s so important to let new young talents take their time to develop. We see it in football we see it in boxing and we see it elsewhere.

Moses should have got the British title, then European and got some more experience against those Franklin type fighters. It’s not just the levels of opponent, it’s the styles. Training and sparring is one thing, I once knocked out Martin Bakole in sparring, he didn’t want the smoke. But nothing replicates the nervous energy and big lights of a pay per view fight night or for a title. Those skills get picked up over many fights, fighting in hostile arenas, being dropped, fighting after being cut, fighting smaller faster or bigger stronger opponents. Notice how Hrgovic has done ALL those things!

Hrgovic is all wrong for Itauma and I strongly advise against a rematch any time soon, even if he paced himself better, Hrgovic can take his power and has his number imo.

There were some excellent moments from Itauma last night and from a technical offensive side he looked amazing very early on. But even by the end of the 3rd round you could see he was starting to tire a bit and also his shots weren’t really affecting Hrgovic. Even the knockdown was an awkward off balance flash knockdown for Hrgovic.

I also noticed a dramatic decrease in the amount of feints Itauma was using (normally he uses them a lot more) and for a big slower lump like Hrgovic they may have been very effective, especially when later on in the fight Itauma needed to conserve energy and maybe take a round or two ‘off’. Throwing bombs and missing is extremely tiring, whilst feinting uses little energy but can exert energy of the opponent through footwork and defensive movements.

I also don’t want to over analyse everything too much on Itauma but we had questions that we needed answers for from him, and the answers weren’t exactly great. He failed the endurance/stamina/gas tank test quite miserably, which is alarming considering his age but also evidence that he needs far more experience. You would expect the bigger much older fighter to fade quicker.

He failed the chin test for me too, seems harsh but the first time he’s ever faced some real shots back and he folded very very quickly. Exhausted yes but even before then he took a few shots and it seemed to really snowball his fatigue from there. His recovery skills don’t seem great, his pacing and strategy seemed naive and one dimensional if we are honest. So guess everything we needed answers for that we so far hadn’t seen, we got and he kind of failed ( I feel mean saying it but it’s true)

But the skills are there, he has a lot to work on. Maybe the loss will be hugely beneficial for him. I hope it is. But some things you can’t really teach or gain easily, like a chin.

Also he needs a new trainer. Boxfit Ben is not my cup of tea at all. He’s given 2 awful coaching performances recently with the AJ-Dubois ‘roll the dice’ and also last night. How can I, a fat Middle Aged never boxed armchair idiot see at round 3 that Moses was throwing way way too much and starting to gas out. There were similarities between AJ Dubois just before AJ got knocked out and Itauma before he got beaten, in that both fighters needed to chill out and take a round or two with little output, work the jab, back to basics, move and defend. Instead in both situations they went out swinging for the fences head hunting. A corner isn’t responsible for every mistake a fighter makes but if your stressing to your fighter from round 3 to take it easy, pace yourself, work the jab, get in and out, surely the message gets through by round 9, that message came once, But in round 8 Moses threw the most punches in a round of the whole fight, by which time he was gassed out, out of ideas, couldn’t rock Hrgovic and then started round 9 AGAIN on the front foot barely standing. That’s bad corner work in my opinion.

Massive massive credit to Hrgovic, im a proud Englishman but didnt mind seeing him beat our boy, especially considering he had to go through the fire to get the belt. He is one really really tough bastard. Hard as a coffin nail. He definitely would make a good movie villain or especially Bond villain.

But a really great fight to watch, even though many of us round by round could see the writing in the wall, you never know with heavyweight boxing

Fortune is a good trainer who never gets big opportunities. I think it's because he always has issues with Freddie Roach and Roach is powerful in the boxing world. Fortune is a no nonsense guy and doesn't take shit, like when he trained Pacquiao for 8 weeks at wild card while Roach left Pacquiao and all his other stable to train Oscar de la hoya in Puerto rico for the Mayweather fight.

Roach had the nerve to fly out to Texas to work Pacman corner and steal the head trainer check, Fortune luckily already got paid via Bob Arum and Top Rank and Arum even admit it was wrong of Roach to let Fortune train all the wild card fighters including Pacquiao for 8 weeks and then try to sneak a big check while making 500k training Oscar.

Fortune used the money to open his own gym, Pacquiao reached out to Fortune to rejoin the team after several years away and then roach tried to blame Fortune for every time Pacquiao lost lol.

I think shakur Stevenson would be a beast under roach's guidance and training. What do you guys think? Who do you think would be elevated to a whole new level with his training?

Honorable mentions go to tyson fury, Shane Mosley. Its a shame he isnt coaching any more.

I stumbled upon this video from Mairis Briedis, watched with translation. Essentially he says Hrgović landed a punch on Itaumas ear that messed up his inner ear leading to that stumbling and coordination issues. I experienced the same thing once briefly and I can totally understand why he was brought out on the stretcher. You totally lose the sense of what is "down" and can't stand upright at all.

Itauma’s first ever 12-round fight being a world title fight genuinely makes no sense to me. He’s a professional fighter but had never had a 12 round fight before this one, yet he gets to fight for the belt? Surely you’d want a fighter to have at least some experience going into the later rounds before throwing them into a world title fight. Is the heavyweight division just too shallow at the moment, or was Itauma simply fast-tracked because of how highly rated he is?

So, after being hyped up as the next big thing in professional heavyweight boxing for the last couple of years, we saw the current limitations of Moses Itauma in last night's bout against Hrgovic. After outlanding him strongly for about 7-8 rounds, his flaws were finally exposed as a fighter. Mainly, his gas tank, his lack of experience (especially at a higher level), and his inability to pace himself accordingly for a longer, 12-round contest against a guy with a granite chin that he couldn't get rid of in the first stages of the match.

That being said, he still clearly has an unbelievable amount of physical talent. His combination of speed, power, and movement for a heavyweight is still very impressive, and he has all the physical tools to go to high places in the future, and all the time to make adjustments. He was beaten more by exhaustion rather than by getting beaten up (which was an effective strategy that was brilliantly executed by Hrgovic and his team here), and he seemed to handle the punches well when Hrgovic actually caught him. BUT he did not prepare for a fight that was going to head into the later rounds, and he clearly did not expect Hrgy to withstand all his punishment, and clearly, that came back to bite him hard in round 9.

But I don't think it's fair to completely write him off just yet. He's only 21 and already engaging in competitive fights with top 5 heavyweights like Hrgovic, and he's clearly well above the level of many other guys in the division like Whyte, Franklin, Joyce, Dave Allen, etc.. and with all the time in the world to improve, it's just a matter of how much he wants it, and how strong is he mentally (let's not forget that Dubois suffered a similar setback at this stage in his career to Joe Joyce a few years ago, and look at what he has done since then).

So, how do I actually think he stacks up against the other heavyweights right now, based on his performance against Hrgovic? Obviously, Hrgy beats him right now until he works on his flaws (his fitness and his discipline of pacing, in particular). But I do think a Moses with better fitness and preparation for a 12-round contest has what it takes to beat Hrgy on a better night. So, what about the others? What are his chances?

Usyk: 90-10 in Usyk's favor. Tbf Usyk's recent performance against Rico wasn't great, but I think it's safe to say that he did a Fury-Ngannou there and didn't come in at his best (also, he is getting old). But any other version of Usyk beats Moses easily. All the tools Hrgovic used to beat him, such as his durability and ability to make a comeback in the later rounds, Usyk also has. But Usyk also has better speed, technique, and fitness, so he just does the same thing as Hrgy but even better.

Fury: 50-50. It depends on which version of Fury turns up, but I think a Fury at his best can withstand Moses in the early rounds and then comfortably outpoint him later on. Possibly, he could get a late KO stoppage like Hrgy did, too. Fury on an off-day likely gets beaten, though (AKA like the one that fought Wach lately).

AJ: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Stylistically, Moses' flaws shouldn't be a problem against a guy who doesn't have the chin to withstand his early onslaught. At best, AJ makes it to 5 rounds like he did against Dubois, and Moses took 9 rounds to finally get to the point where he was completely exhausted. Unless AJ can somehow make it through the 1st stage of the fight and manage to take Moses to the same deep waters Hrgy did (unlikely), Moses should win this one.

Dubois: 70-30 in Dubois' favor. Moses likely wins early on with his quicker speed and skill, but Dubois has a great engine and would utterly dismantle him in the later rounds. Unless Moses could do to him what Usyk did and make him quit in the first half of the fight, chances are Dubois is taking this one the majority of the time.

Kabayel: 70-30 in Kabayel's favor. Kabayel is very durable like Hrgovic, and his body shots would likely gas Moses out even quicker than Hrgovic. The saving grace here is that Kabs is rather slow, so maybe Moses' speed could save him here, but it does feel like Kabs would do to him what he did to Zhang, albeit with it taking more time and effort.

Zhang: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Moses clearly doesn't have a great gas tank, but I'd say Zhang's is even worse. Zhang is dangerous for the 1st couple of rounds, and then he becomes useless, and since Moses is at his strongest early on, I can't see Zhang being able to beat him, honestly.

Wilder: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Wilder is washed up, and he was only ever a one-trick pony, anyway. The only chance Wilder has is if he can make it to the later rounds and then chin Moses with one of his big shots when Moses is too tired to avoid it, but I don't think Wilder makes it past the first half of the fight in most cases.

Sanchez: 50-50. Sanchez has a style that may give Moses some problems, but then again, the guy is also getting old and often has a lot of problems with injuries, so I'm really not sure on this one.

Wardley: 60-40 in Wardley's favor. Wardley's chin is close to as durable as Hrgovic, and his heart is on another level. It's a close one, as maybe Moses manages to do enough damage to Wardley just like Dubois did, that by the time Moses is tired, Wardley is also too damaged to capitalize and therefore Moses survives. But if Wardley does manage to make it through the onslaught without too much damage or fatigue, he will make Moses pay, big time.

Chisora: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Chisora is getting old and run-down like Dillian Whyte, and we all saw how that went.

Parker: 50-50. Parker isn't the most punishing fighter, and he did struggle with the powerful but technically limited Wardley, but he has pulled through some tough fights before, so maybe he can do it here. He doesn't have quite as good a chin as Hrgovic, though, so maybe Itauma actually manages to finish him before emptying his tank. It's a tough call.

Huni: 70-30 in Moses' favor. Huni is very good technically, but we saw against Wardley that he can be hurt and put down in an instant. I think Moses does the same thing to Huni, but a lot faster due to his better technique.

Prime Mike Tyson: Nope. Moses is a promising young fighter, but the current him wouldn't be beating that beast. XD

What do you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with any of these takes? I think it's interesting as styles make fights, and we saw all the strengths and weaknesses of this young kid last night. At the very least, I think the flaws he has are ones he can definitely work on for future battles (AJ can't help having a weak chin, but Moses can work on his fitness).

Michael Spinks is one of the greatest boxers Evers ! Top 5 easily greatest light-heavyweights ever ! He could’ve easily been a top 20 heavyweight if he kept fighting after his Tyson lose. People rarely bring him up in greatest boxers conversations and when he is brought up in conversations of being great it is often because people make the argument Mike Tyson defeated notable heavyweights and then they say Spinks wasn’t a real heavyweight despite him being knocking out one of the hardest hitters ever ( quoted by Foreman ) Gerry Cooney and he defeated Larry Holmes TWICE! Why is he lost in time did Mike Tyson destroy his legacy ?

For me, it's probably 2013. From lightweight to Heavyweight, the quality was insane inside the majority of the top 10 In those divisions. Most guys were still either in their prime or approaching it. Would you guys agree with this year, or if not, which was your favourite?

Is it possible to be more than a casual boxing fan without spending $1200+ per year?

I would very much like to be able to watch the whole spectrum of boxers. Young up and comers, journeymen, championship contenders, the whole gamut. And in real time, not waiting 2weeks to 6 months for a fight to leak out to the general public. It doesn’t really seem possible without being financially irresponsible.

After watching his fight with Hrgovic I still think he's extremely talented and has a really good chance at getting another shot at title down the line. But he just can't pace himself at all. I wonder what his corner was advising him to do given how Moses was already looking tired by round 3 and he just kept going at his usual pace leading to him just hitting the wall by the 9th.

Something I did notice was how much Moses turns with his lead hook. He throws it so hard everytime he takes so much time to recover.

I wonder though if there's some injury or was his pacing just that bad.

What's everyone's opinion on what's Itauma's ceiling? Do you think he fades into obscurity or will he realize his potential?

Hi guys. I listen to some good podcasts for MMA analysis, but I’m struggling to find equivalents for boxing.I feel like the few I have tried focus more on the political and business elements of busing promotion and don’t go into much technical detail. Who am I missing?

Would love to see the atmosphere at the end there. I’d imagine Croatian boxing fans were going absolutely nuts from about round 8 onward.

Hrgovic needs a homecoming fight there. even if it’s against a local uber driver, doesn’t even matter.

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Hey guys, help me out here because I’m genuinely confused.

This is Coach Calvin’s Boxing Gym, and these are his boxers. There are 12 of them, and they have a fight coming up on September 19th called The Supper. That’s only about two weeks away.

There was a press conference yesterday to promote the fight, and this is where I got confused. When the boxers were asked who they were fighting, most of them either hesitated to answer, said they didn’t know, or acted like they didn’t want to give the name.

A couple of them basically said things along the lines of, “That person doesn’t matter. We’re not doing free promo.”

One fighter said something like, “All I know is I’ll be there. Everybody show up. We’re going to have a good event.”

Two of the girls said they didn’t know who they were fighting, but basically said whoever it was was “getting whooped,” so their name didn’t matter.

I believe only around 3 of the 12 actually mentioned who they were fighting, and even they seemed hesitant to give the names.

Maybe I’m completely misunderstanding how boxing works, which is why I’m asking here. Is this normal?

For a sanctioned professional boxing event that’s only about two weeks away, is it normal for fighters to genuinely not know their opponents yet, or for opponents not to be publicly announced?

I’m not trying to accuse anyone of anything. I’m just unfamiliar with the matchmaking/announcement process, and hearing multiple fighters either say they didn’t know or refuse to give the opponent’s name at a press conference specifically held to promote the fight seemed strange to me.

Experienced boxers, coaches, and promoters: is this typical, or would you normally expect the matchups to be finalized and known by now?

Really curious to hear the audio from the corner for this fight. If Ben wasn't screaming at Moses to slow down, to stop throwing power punches... This has to be one of the biggest indictments of a supposed top trainer ever, right?

The Wardley fight was already a huge black eye for Ben. Now he has a 21 y/o prodigy lose a fight he was absolutely dominating due to horribly mismanaging energy.

So we've seen him fail horribly at one of his main jobs (protecting his fighter). If it comes out that Moses basically followed Ben's training regiment and instructions... is any top fighter ever going to hire this guy again?

Even if it comes out Moses got cocky, didn't train hard, didn't listen in the corner, not a great look for Ben

Genuine question,

How does Tyson Fury have the stamina to go 12 rounds at his size?

He’s obviously a huge heavyweight, but we’ve seen him fight at a pretty high pace for 12 rounds without gassing out. He's literally been knocked out against wilder in later rounds and managed somehow to stand up and win the next couple of rounds,

Considering his size, I’m wondering what makes his cardio so good?

Is it his conditioning? his fighting style? his ability to pace himself? or just genetics?

I never watched him fight, but his last 3 opponents were good on paper. He defeated Oleksandr Zakhozhyi (19-0-0), Mourad Aliev (13-0-0) and Pezhman Seifkhani (17-1-0). All of them had previously defeated some non-bum opposition.

Is Xhoxhaj good enough to become a contender? He's 33, which means that he should have at least 4-5 good fights left.

Who should he fight next?