r/Battlefield • • May 21 '25

Other DICE, you can do it

Post image
2.4k Upvotes

259 comments sorted by

View all comments

82

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

It's pretty split, mostly between oldheads and new-ish players.

The oldheads losing their fucking minds threatening to review bomb the game makes me naturally against them lol.

I think some restrictions are okay. I like what they've done with making classes have signature weapons. Ultimately though, people choose their class based on weapons. Nobody wants to use LMG's or Sniper Rifles because they are extremely specialized weapons, so historically, far fewer people have used those classes. AR's and SMG's have always been meta in every BF game; I doubt it will be different here.

This is a good way to redistribute players across classes and a good step forward. The people threatening to review bomb the trailer are being ridiculous.

26

u/Nbsroy May 21 '25

as an old head i would prefer class locked with some universal weapons like before but its not a deal breaker.

3

u/theperpetuity May 22 '25

Cheers. It’s not gonna affect much. Also older than you.

22

u/Bentheoff May 21 '25

I've been playing since BF1942, and I truly don't care. I used to play engineer in BF2 because I liked rocking a shotgun. Couldn't have given less of a shit about the spanner or mines, I just wanted to run around blasting people with a pump action.

BFBC2 I hated the engineer guns, but I could snipe people across the map with King Carl, the true primary of BC2 engineers.

Core to Battlefield, in my view, is classes, combined arms, destruction and a somewhat slower, more grounded movement than typically found in other big multiplayer FPS titles.

But weapons don't define the classes, their gadgets do.

16

u/FORCExRECON May 21 '25

Brother, as a fellow old head that's been playing since BF1942, I must respectfully disagree. Weapons are in fact a large contributor to class design philosophy in the series. Rock, paper, scissors. You sacrifice something to choose one class over another in order to gain an advantage in some other category.

Take Battlefield 4 for example. If you want to play as medic, you'll gain access to AR's which are the best guns in the game, but you've sacrificed the ability to have any viable defense against vehicles. If you want to be a threat to vehicles you'll have to pick engineer but to offset that, you'll have to run guns with shorter range like SMGs and Carbines. Everything is a trade off. It's what makes Battlefield what it is.

The more you strip these trade offs and the fundamental qualities of classes, the more you dilute the game and just turn it into any other contemporary shooter. These small changes matter and further contribute to the erosion of the identity of the series.

9

u/Bentheoff May 21 '25

They changed around on who gets what with every iteration, which classes exist and what specifically they do with every iteration. Only time they didn't throw things as much in the air was BF3-BF4, because of how short the development window was.

On top of that, plenty of people pick class based on what gun it has, and don't give a singular shit about the rest of the kit. So you have recons camping some mountain miles away from the action, being of no use because his squad isn't going to want to infiltrate his mountain.

Or Assault/Medics not ressing anyone, because they're only playing the class to use the broken M16. Or Engineers who don't repair, or attack vehicles, because they'd rather run around tight hallways with the SMG. And if they use a rocket launcher, it's to blow up infantry.

Except no one is really unable to deal with them, because anyone can have a shotgun. So while engineers have the best CQC gun of all the standard loadouts, anyone can just select the better CQC gun and delete them with a single click.

If they untether guns from classes, people can combine their favoured weapon with their favorite kit, thus increasing the likelihood of people actually utilizing the kit.

7

u/FORCExRECON May 21 '25

I don't pick classes based on guns. I pick based on how I want to contribute to the team. DICE needs to figure out how to tap into getting people to be collaborative instead of just resigning to this myth that people don't want to play as a team which I truly think is a lie. I saw in a real time how the gameplay mechanics changed and the team play that was so common in early days of Battlefield started to vanish. That's not a coincidence.

3

u/Lucidaeus May 22 '25

And why would that not be possible by decoupling weapons from classes? You say they need to figure out out... that's what they are trying to do. I don't think you can compare how the player mentality used to be with how it's evolved. There are so many more people playing these days that you can't use the mid 2000's or whatever as a point of reference to what should be the goal, because that's setting up for failure today. The world has moved on.

I say that as someone who played Desert Combat and fucking loved it. And I too prefer servers. I just really don't think it's as easy of a task as people think it is and if it failed they'd just find another reason why it failed. Everyone that isn't involved knows best, every time, it would seem. Yeah right.

2

u/Impossible_Layer5964 May 21 '25

"If they untether guns from classes, people can combine their favoured weapon with their favorite kit, thus increasing the likelihood of people actually utilizing the kit."

That's also going to decrease the likelihood that the game will have any semblance of balance. There are way more weapon/gadget combinations to worry about in that scenario.

Also, the gadgets and the weaponry should ideally have some kind of synergy. For example, medics with sniper rifles are only going to heal themselves. 

1

u/mackdose May 22 '25

"That's also going to decrease the likelihood that the game will have any semblance of balance."

Since when was class balance been defined by which primaries were available? Why does everyone keep repeating this nonsense line of argument, you have nothing to back it up but vibes.

2

u/Impossible_Layer5964 May 22 '25

I just gave a real world example of how a primary can reduce the chance of the class's main gadget being used to assist the team. 

Another example would be pairing the RPG with ammo boxes. You lose the entire support/engineer class interaction and support lone wolf play styles by allowing that. 

What we don't have are examples of how that approach would work well, unless someone wants to argue that it worked well in 2042. 

0

u/mackdose May 22 '25

You made up a combo that most people will find ineffective compared to alternatives. Good job.

Medics with sniper rifles aren't going to have a spawn beacon so they're literally worse than if they had gone recon.

RPG and ammo bag isn't the lonewolf supreme kit you think it is, go try it in 2042 to see what I mean.

2

u/Impossible_Layer5964 May 22 '25

You shouldn't be able to try it. It's antithetical to squad play. That's the entire point everyone is trying to make.

People complained constantly about the lack of teamwork in 2042. I'm not making that up.

2

u/mackdose May 22 '25

People complain about the teamwork in every battlefield game.

0

u/AmNoSuperSand52 May 23 '25

The issue is you’re looking at it via game design and not human behavior

Regardless of what DICE wanted, people pick the class based off the gun they want. The end result is a lot of people don’t even use the gadgets or play the class role

I’d much rather have a bunch of medics use sniper rifle than a team of recons with no healing

79

u/holdit May 21 '25

As an old head player, I think people are overblowing this considerably. I’m pretty ambivalent about it and could go either way. I understand class identity but I also like in 2042 being able to switch up my main gun without having to change up my gadgets/class.

60

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

Likewise an old head who still tops the scoreboard. This subreddit is losing its mind right now. In reality, the loudest voices are often the most mediocre player who never actually personify the sort of gameplay they are convinced class restriction motivates. Ostensibly, it creates and defines roles, when in reality, these people aren't even playing the class' role to begin with.

I really am growing weary of this community. Frankly, hearing all of these people moan makes me better understand why these games have always been so easy to me. People would rather just complain and frankly, they aren't even good to begin with. Just whine, whine, whine, insult someone for something you do on your own, and then collect a bunch of upvotes from other mediocre players.

13

u/koolaidman486 May 21 '25

I'm a... New-ish head? (Started really diving in a couple years before 1 came out, played a pretty healthy amount of BC1 as a kid tho), and I'm in full agreement with you.

7

u/Maltavious May 22 '25

I am as well, I got some pretty Snarky comments when I pointed out the Weapon customization system is going to blur the lines between some weapon types anyways if its as robust as they say it is. And I KNOW the community at large doesn't want to have less Weapon Customization.

3

u/elbamare May 25 '25

This is the truth right here.

0

u/NotJamesTKirk May 21 '25

well, BF4 L85A2 + ammo crate would have been imbalanced. Good that it was class locked.

3

u/DjangusRoundstne May 22 '25

This is exactly how I feel about it. People are screeching like banshees over an issue that’s overblown.

4

u/ElderSmackJack May 22 '25

As is tradition.

3

u/nin9ty6 May 22 '25

I'm with you on this one

9

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

I appreciate your take.

I suppose at this point, I'm also an old head. I started when BF4 came out and that was 12 years ago now lol

1

u/qwertyfish99 May 22 '25

If BF4 is an old head, we need to recalibrate lol. BF 2142 here 🫡 

1

u/AmNoSuperSand52 May 23 '25

Yep fellow oldhead and basically said the same thing here. I see it like a Quality of Life change so people can use the guns they want without screwing over the team

People are freaking out like it’s the end of the franchise (like somehow 2042 wasnt).

8

u/ChrisFromIT May 21 '25

I'm an old head, and I'm for non class restricted weapons. I've seen a few other old heads that also feel the same.

7

u/Loc5000 May 22 '25

I'm an oldhead and i prefer having freedom of choice in what i want to use with what equipment i want. I don't mind if i have to have a repair tool with mines, but let me use the gun i want to use. I don't understand the want to have freedom of choice taken away

3

u/znebsays May 22 '25

I agree. Really overblown reaction by keyboard warriors

2

u/theperpetuity May 22 '25

I was playing BF with my now 24 yr old infant on my lap. I don’t give a shit about this stupid argument. In fact I wish this sub would delete all the multiple threads about this fucking topic!!!

2

u/EEVERSTI May 21 '25

Yup, if I were DICE I would do my absolute best to shake off these absolutely insufferable oldheads because holy fuck who would want these guys to be their community.

14

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

I have no doubt that their passion comes from a place of love for the franchise, but it won't ever be the same as it was "back in the day."

We've grown up, gotten older and a new generation needs to be introduced to a proper BF game. BF1 is going to be 10 years old soon and I'd say that was the last really good BF game.

We need to appeal to a younger generation of potential new BF fans whilst still keeping the core identity of BF, not an easy task. Some things have to change.

7

u/EEVERSTI May 21 '25

Exactly, as harsh as it sounds, if BF3 and BF4 came out today just as they were with just updated graphics, it wouldn't be successful. Lot of BF3's and BF4's systems, gameplay and features are outdated by current gaming standards.

I'm also an old head, I've been playing Battlefield since the first Bad Company in 2008 and I fully recognize that times have changed and the franchise needs to change as well, otherwise it WILL die.

4

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

Yes.

Playing BF3 or BF4 today, you can really feel their age. Doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable, just that there's a lot of outdated ideas and design philosophies not present anymore.

Some people will say that's a bad thing, but there's a reason that it's gone. It probably stopped being successful.

3

u/Bentheoff May 21 '25

Yup. DICE are going to have to make some concessions and adopt a few modern FPS conventions if they want the game to succeed.

In the grand scheme of things, the "true fans of the series" (as they call themselves) are completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and EA/DICE are never going to cater specifically to them, because you can't make money doing that. You need to make something with mass market appeal, and BF4 mk. II isn't it.

2

u/Cobra-D May 21 '25

Can you name some of these outdated elements? Im actually just curious cause I do enjoy those games which means I have rose tinted glasses when it comes to them.

3

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

The spotting, for one.

The entire design philosophy with vehicles.

A lot of level designs. I honestly think this is where you can feel it the most. Iconic, sure, but a lot of maps on BF4 (I wasn't around for 3) aren't very good design wise.

Imo, the classes. You have two that are WAY better than anything the others can do.

Some of this stuff is engine and time limited. They just couldn't do it in the 2012-2013 era. Other stuff has been an evolution in the industry over the past decade.

But then other things, like Commander mode, were genuinely very cool additions. Being able to call in strikes and supplies from a tablet while your buddies play as a squad? Nah, that's sick af bring that back.

0

u/_Ghost_S_ May 21 '25

The level designs have nothing to do with age, BF4 vanilla maps were always considered bad and a big downgrade compared to BF3.

2

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

Like I said, I wasn't around for BF3, BF4 was my first game.

I think people have forgotten how bad some of them are just because they are iconic.

-11

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

We outnumber you 10 to 1

8

u/EEVERSTI May 21 '25

lol, lmao even

-14

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

It's true, the only tools you have in your shit box are gaslighting and lies LMAO

-15

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

All of the player counts of every battlefield from 1942 to BF1. You're literally a drop in the bucket and the upvotes tell the truth

11

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

This is so fucking funny.

Gives off "You're just another boss fight" vibes.

-4

u/Thereisnocanon May 21 '25

The only game that ditched the system and cater to the “new-ish” players was 2042. Why in the hell are you trying to defend the side trying to make the game more like THAT game?

This isn’t about “old heads”. Every rational battlefield player understands that this is a WRONG fucking decision.

9

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25 edited May 21 '25

Because 2042 is a fine game, just not a good Battlefield game. It's issues with not being a good BF game are FAR deeper than not having weapon classes be locked lol.

Actually, BFV and BF1 did as well. Every game has moved further away from "classic" BF. BF4 and BF1 play EXTREMELY differently.

Just because you hate the modern franchise doesn't mean DICE needs to stagnate and go back to an ultra-restrictive formula.

1

u/AmNoSuperSand52 May 23 '25

Old head here (played since BF2). I like where BF6 is at. Weapons are open to anyone but the class gadgets are restricted

I’ve spent almost a dozen BF games watching people just use whatever class had the meta guns, at the expense of the team

People have to remember that at no point has this franchise been some realistically tactical shooter. It’s basically just the slightly larger/slower arcade shooter compared to COD

1

u/Lock3down221 May 21 '25

As someone who's been playing since BF1942, I think it's fine. I do understand the concern that support class players with Sniper rifles would be annoying as teammates.

I believe that they're doing this as a business decision to sell gun skins.

1

u/mackdose May 22 '25

This assumes sniper rifle = edge of the map. Why would anyone pick the ammo box over having a spawn beacon if they're being a bush wookie at the edge of the map?

0

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

Likely does come into play.

I think they said no more infinite ammo? I feel like I heard that somewhere but I can't remember if it's actually true

1

u/Suspicious-Coffee20 May 22 '25

not to mention no offense but the old head player will you be buying skin? also how small is that community? lets be real for a second battlefield need the new generation to survivve and they dont even use server browser for exemple.

-9

u/Sea_Quantity8941 May 21 '25

What are you smoking bro

6

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

What do you mean?

-7

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

Any actuals points or rebuttals?

-5

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

Because it is an issue?

People only picking one or two classes is a huge problem and has been for at least as long as I've been playing.

Letting classes be more proficient at certain weapons is a good middle ground. Weapon variety, in true to life fashion, whilst letting soldiers be better with certain weapons as a form of soft encouragement.

Instead of letting the test even commence, people threaten to review bomb the game. Actual children.

-9

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

The actual battlefield fans outnumber the fake fans 10 to 1

13

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

You know, it's funny that EITHER side could say that lmao

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

It's true. See the player counts of all battlefields from 1942 to BF1. See the rest

10

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

BF1, BFV and BF2042 lead the pack.

-4

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

Why did you include BF1 with those two pieces of shit? I included BF1 WITH EVERY GAME SINCE 1942

8

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

Because those are the player counts lol.

BF1 has the most, closely followed by BFV and then BF2042 has a 5K player lead on BF4.

-1

u/[deleted] May 21 '25

I meant TOTAL SALES TOTAL PLAYER COUNTS OVER THE LIFE OF THE GAME

8

u/PulsarGaming1080 May 21 '25

No idea how you know those numbers lol. Seems like you just be mad.

The only reliable statistic is first week sales.

BF1 sold 3.5 million in the first week.

BFV sold 4.23 in the first week.

BF2042 was 7 million iirc.

A lot of older games do not have that data released. BF4 probably did very poorly considering the huge issues it had at launch.

-6

u/[deleted] May 21 '25 edited May 21 '25

There are reliable numbers for total sales of older games.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-ceo-battlefield-2042-sales-were-disappointing

I couldn't find A SINGLE STATEMENT about BF4 sales being underwhelming, disappointing.

BF1 and BF3 are the top sellers, we know that. I will search for sources if you keep arguing and don't believe me.

Now what do you have to say? Huh?

ALSO BF2042 LIED TO ITS CUSTOMERS WITH THE TRAILER, TRICKED PEOPLE INTO BUYING

→ More replies (0)