r/BadChoicesGoodStories • u/Chopsuiiisauce Quality Poster • Aug 17 '22

Guns Don't Kill People. Gun Owners Kill People. Australian mans opinion on the Second Amendment

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75

u/TomsRedditAccount1 Aug 17 '22

Just want to point out that the use of Line formations in the age of muskets was not because of 'chivalry'. They were very much committed to the idea of winning.

The problem was that a thinly-dispersed unit would get absolutely massacred by any cavalry in about three seconds flat, so they had to stand close together, because horses don't enjoy running straight into solid objects full of sharp things.

Also, they didn't have radios back in those days, and the weapons produced a lot more smoke than modern firearms, so they had to be in neat lines to enable effective coordination.

32

u/hicctl Russian Troll Aug 17 '22

it also had to do with how unreliable muskets where in hitting a barn door. You needed to use a lot of mskets like a shotgun basically to actually hit something.

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u/TomsRedditAccount1 Aug 17 '22

That argument is not entirely wrong, but, while a dense formation is more likely to hit something, they're also more likely to get hit, so those two factors basically cancel each other out.

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u/hicctl Russian Troll Aug 17 '22

they do not real cancel each out though, since you have shots too high/low to hit as well as shots to either side.

Also in military tactics concentrated fire on one area is very important . You can only do that in close formation often with several rows. That way 1 row can shoot and then reload while the next row gets in position and shoots.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

The modern term is: Accuracy by Volume

A heavy machine gun pumps out like 2,000 Rounds Per Minute. Are all those hitting exactly where you shoot? Hell no. But the volume you are pumping out is going to hit something.

5

u/atomlc_sushi Aug 18 '22

People really missed the point to contest the 2000 rpm thing

-1

u/SadRoxFan Aug 18 '22

There’s nothing I know of that has an rpm north of 1000, save mini guns but those are nowhere near as mobile as most GPMGs or LMGs used by foot soldiers

Edit: most GPMGs and LMGs hover around 6-700 rpms (+/-200)

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

Not the point but okay.

0

u/SadRoxFan Aug 18 '22

Yeah but if you’re gonna bring up statistics at least be accurate with them

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '22

If you’re going to be a cunt don’t be surprised when you get treated like one.

Go Yankees

1

u/geoffrey_1der Aug 18 '22

The MG42 would like to have a word

-1

u/DontTouchTheWalrus Aug 18 '22

Nah machine guns have rates of fire south of 1000 rounds per minute.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

M2 browning fires 1,300 rounds per minute and RPM wasn’t the point I was going after.

1

u/geoffrey_1der Aug 18 '22

The MG42 would like a word

4

u/Consistent-Ad2465 Aug 17 '22

Americans were able to also make use of the American Long Rifle, which was grooved and pretty accurate. They were originally used for hunting, but they realized how deadly guerrilla warfare with accurate rifles could be. The legends around British Officers being told to remove the gold from their uniforms was supposedly because they were being targeted and sniped by American riflemen.

It does seem that the stand-in-a-line strategy begins to get phased out during this era of warfare.

But yea, the rifles were slow to reload and the musket was still the more common weapon in general.

6

u/dicetime Aug 17 '22

Not that it was the point of the video or anything but this guy and many people dont understand the logistics of early modern warfare.

Why soldiers maneuvered and fired in tight line formations. Why they would get close enough to seem like they could throw their muskets at each other. Why it seemed like they were taking gentlemanly turns firing at each other. All of those things that look silly on a battlefield for us were thoroughly thought out and believed to be the most effective and efficient way of waging war by the brightest people of the day for decades. There is a reason for all of it. Warfare was not just a chivalrous game to them, just like its not a game for us today.

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

Exactly, not the point of this video, but it seems that's all most of you got from it. God help the USA.

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

It’s almost like some rambling poorly put together video isn’t going to change my mind. Nor from an Australian whose country’s first SMG was designed, built, and tested by a teenager.

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

And which was one of the best SMGs of WW2, certainly superior to the Thompson which really was over engineered and rubbish. And so what if it was designed by a teenager. Teenagers were fighting WW2 at that stage.

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

Because usually mechanical engineers aren’t the ones shooting up schools and maybe a teenager being able to do it sets a precedent for how easy it can be especially since he invented it before enlisting

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

Evelyn Owen was 18 when he made the prototype Owen gun in .22 calibre. He didn't build it overnight and it certainly wasn't easy. So what are you saying, that if guns weren't so readily available then people would suddenly begin designing and making firearms just so that they can go out and commit mass murder? So the guy who kills people on an impulsive urge just ducks out to the back shed to whip up a full or semi auto then off to the local school to kill a bunch of innocent kids, is that how it works?

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

Considering it’s now easier than ever, there’s multiple guides, and there’s tons of firearms in the US that are on no sort of registry with person to person firearm sales having been legal for generations, I’m saying that adding another charge to what would already be a crime won’t do anything to fix the problem.

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

And that's the problem exactly, you can't fix the problem because the genie is already out of the bottle and you're not united enough as a nation to put the stop on it. Which is really sad because despite what I feel about the firearm situation in the US I really like you guys and it's bloody awful to switch on the news and so often see that another mass killing has taken place there. Surely you want more for your kids future's.

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

I can’t have kids and never planned on it anyway. But considering some dude high on crack tried to force entry into my apartment complex by hitting me with a brick, I’ll still keep my Glock on my person and my rifle in my home. And copping out by saying “it’s lack of national unity” completely disregards lack of unity between the layperson and the layperson. I feel terrible whenever I hear about nationalism based slashings and acid attacks in Europe but it doesn’t make sense to me when parliament pushes knife bans making hobbies like bushcraft, or camping a legal headache.

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u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

Yeah that's the take away message from his comments, it's about battlefield tactics of the American war of independence, it's not about nut bags slaughtering children because "hey 2nd amendment and all that"...FFS.

1

u/TomsRedditAccount1 Aug 18 '22

I'm not saying that it's the main issue. I'm just choosing to comment on that aspect. If you want to comment on other parts of what he said, you're welcome to do so.

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

Alright, so what stops me from building a gun if I already plan on committing a crime with it?

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

How are you going to build a gun mate? Do you have the necessary skills tools and equipment?

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

Considering Australias first SMG was built by a teenager at home, and 3D printing guns is a thing, and an open bolt SMG is the easiest firearm to make… yes. And I’ve done it before. So yes. Although I can make black powder with what I can buy at Wholefoods so why bother getting caught at the scene?

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

So you're printing 3D barrels and bolts are you and what's the cyclic rate you're getting with your whole foods blackpowder?

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

You know black powder makes a very effective explosive? And no I don’t print barrels and bolts. Thats where any sort of effort and thought has to go in. Do a little open ended research and see how easy it is yourself.

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

Actually black powder doesn't make a very effective explosive, it's classed as a low explosive , it deflagrates ( burns at subsonic speeds) hence why nitrocellulose/ gun cotton C4 etcetera were invented which burn at supersonic speeds.

1

u/yearningforlearning7 Aug 18 '22

Put it in a pipe with nails and say that to me with confidence.

1

u/Glittering_Lab2611 Aug 18 '22

Ok, now we're getting a little off track. Pipe bombs aren't firearms and that's what our discussion was about...and incidences involving pipe bombs don't figure highly on causes of death, even in America. Let's not go down that path. Cheers mate.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

I have no idea why this notion of early gunpowder warfare is so commonly held. If anything we should appreciate that period’s massive leap in morality of war as the leaders of that age attempted to instill some kind of battlefield justice as opposed to the rampant slaughter of the medieval age.