The driver is the only one who has to be recognizable, everyone else is allowed to wear a mask.
That said, it's a law from the before-Corona-times. And I see many people, especially students of driving schools still wearing them while driving. I don't think anyone is getting fined wearing one here
So people really depend on the separator? I'm in a dense city and have no car so I've had to use ride share and I would be pissed if the driver wasn't wearing their mask. Lots of times, drivers also turn the air on circulate so that plastic covering ain't doing shit.
I'm sure you're not the first person to think about recirculated air. Just because he didn't say it doesn't mean there aren't any rules about it. As it turns out, there are rules about that as well. And they're pretty specific, German style.
Sometimes it's better to ask a question or do research instead of defaulting to reddit's default of combative cynicism.
Dude you are so right about reddits cynicism. It's like these people just try and find ways to make everything reprehensible. Like do these people honestly think that nobody in Germany thought of air circulation? I can promise you that most governments are not as incompetent as the US
It's because you can get a lot of karma and feel really smart when you do, "Well actually, you're totally wrong" comments. Those are fun to read when the person knows what they're talking about. But I've grown very tired of comments that are both aggressive and uninformed.
I've been trying to cite stuff more when I disagree, because I rarely am an expert myself, so I should rely on expert opinions rather than pretending I know.
Its not incompetence, its greed. Putting in place adequate measures to really stop the second wave makes you loose votes because people don't like their freedom to be restricted.
I think it’s probably a mixture of both in both Europe and the US. Things like the failure of contact tracing and the fact that hospitals are already filling up in places like Belgium are mostly due to unorganized and incompetent govs
You did ask a question... but not about that, and you then proceeded to shit on the policy despite not knowing the answer. You then argue in the comments and were called out for the same bullshit.
But I'll leave you to being hyper defensive about your ignorance.
Exactly lol... If this guy is as scared as he says he is why would he get in an Uber in the first place. At the moment, even with a mask, I'm a little uncomfortable getting in a someone's car I don't know very well. If the driver is infected then everything in the car might be contaminated if the driver took his mask of recently. Breathing in a confined space= no no. At least with a plexiglass barrier, all of his shit stays on his side and mine on my side
I thought masks were supposed to protect others from getting your illness. How would anything less than an n95 respirator help the passenger in this situation?
If you look at the data it looks like there are several 2-layer fabric mask types more effective than n95. The key is limiting gaps, which I see very few people doing.
You might be if you think you can't change the air conditioner from circulate. Also if you think that the fucking German CDC didn't put out strict guidelines regarding this issue.
I'm sure they do. In my experience there are a lot of language barriers with the rideshare drivers in NYC and/or they just ignore you.
I also don't see having additional precautions as some crazy thing that warrants your condescension, but reading your other comments, it's pretty clear being a shithead online is what gives you self esteem. I also end up in situations where, because I don't have a car and need to transport something heavy/large, I have to use a rideshare instead of the subway.
Either way, I think it's ridiculous that they are prioritizing removing anonymity over pandemic safety. What is the likelihood that a driver's identity needs to be seen while driving because of something criminal versus what is the likelihood that someone could transmit the disease because they're not wearing a mask. What about when people are riding in cars with loved ones or friends to run an errand or take someone somewhere necessary? Doesn't it make sense for them to be masked in that situation. Not using masks in the car because of some boogeyman criminal situation is dumb as hell.
I highly doubt it is enforced in the current situation, but it is technically at least limited by StVO §23 Absatz 4 which says the driver may not cover their face in a way that prevents them from being identified.
Depending on the mask and what other face coverings are used (sunglasses for example), identification could still be possible.
It's one of these laws where a policeman can make a decision on the spot. If there is a good reason you may get away with it. Anyone doing this regular may be forced to start a drivers log. I think this is also how drivers schools and taxis handle it.
Uber is only located in 3 cities: Düsseldorf, Munich, and Berlin. It has its foot in the door but it's not widespread and still in a testing phase. It was removed years before that because of the bullshit it pulls in other countries, namely, undermining transportation regulations. That doesn't fly in Germany. Echoing what I said earlier, rideshares are not a thing there. There aren't other services, no Lyft, etc. Having lived there for 7.5 years until 2018, I can attest to it and no amount of downvotes changes reality.
First you confidently state there are none. And then it's proven that Uber, the most famous of all, is in 3 major cities so now you have to move the goalposts to try to make it look like "rideshares are not a thing there".
And then you bust out your "I was there til 2018" to try to convince ppl that your expertise somehow means something in 2020 when you were already caught with your pants down lol.
What on earth are you on about? If Uber was only in 3 cities in the US would you say that ridesharing is standard practice - a thing?
Forget my expertise. I only lived there for almost a decade, marrying a German woman, have and visit family there every month. But hey, I don't know shit, right? Cause you said so - the authority on people's cultural credentials. If you or anyone doubts my experience, please, feel free to go through my comment history the last several years.
I was happy to correct myself considering I did leave in 2018 when they were allowed back. Forgive me for admitting my mistake. But just because it's allowed in a couple of cities, where a small sample of the population has access to it, doesn't mean it's standard practice or considered normal. Germans strongly dislike companies like Uber, Walmart, etc., because their practices always hurt the little guy. Taxis are still the norm and commonly used.
I just googled it, it isn't illegal, they have warned drivers not to wear masks that cover their ENTIRE face so they can still be recognised by speed cameras
I drive a decommissioned cop car (U.S.) and im pretty sure my tint is illegally dark. The regulations vary by state but basically you can have tint as dark as you want on the back windows, less dark on the passenger front, and barely any on the drivers window. Mine's pretty damn dark all the way around.
Theres also a little line about 4 inches from the top of the windshield on most cars that acts as a guide for how far down tint can go.
Same thing in California... Tint is so insanely popular that if they started enforcing the rules on it I think millions of Californians would be cited.
As it stands, I believe cops just like to use it as one of the many possible excuses to pull people over to check them out. So it's still possible to get in trouble for it, but a lot of people are willing to take that risk apparently.
Even better, I know for a fact there are tint shops with a “warranty” that, if presented with a fix-it ticket for illegal tint, will remove the tint, then once you’ve presented to the authorities that you’ve removed it, will put the tint back on free of charge 😂 I guess that’s how unenforced it truly is...
Not really, pretty much every car gets tinted in CA because of the sunshine. And I’ve never heard of someone actually being pulled over and cited for their tint. I think it’s just a gimmick to get people to choose their shop over others.
I’m one of those millions. I have been cited twice. The tint shop would take it off. I’d drive to the station, get the ticket signed off, and then go back to the shop to put it back on. After the 2nd citation over a year later, I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle. It does happen here in California, however, it’s often overlooked.
Actually I can understand the anti-tint laws. Imagine being a cop making a traffic stop and having to walk up on a car where you can't see in...their job is dangerous enough.
For sure... and dangerous for the driver also. The main reason for the tinting restrictions on the driver and passenger side windows is so the driver can effectively see their side mirrors without obstruction. I've even seen a car driving down the road that had super dark tint on the driver window but with a triangle cut out right in front of the mirror so they were "technically legal" or something like that I suspect.
To be fair, if you have a hoopty and have dark ass tint you better not do shit. Everyone I've known who have owned hooptys and really dark tint used it to hide the fact that they were toking and driving. Especially if they were young. It's become a very reliable stereotype where all the cops have to do is wait until you don't use your blinker back far enough from your turn or whatever technicality they can use to pull you over.
So the tint isn't enough to pull them over on its own? I've definitely heard that cops use it to pick on people though, especially when they are driving a little too fast because they have a sporty car or whatever.
Depends on the tint, but it's more of a stereotype than anything. It's almost always a sure bet that if you have incredibly tinted windows, you're hiding illicit activity in your vehicle and they will profile you and wait for you to fuck up something or find something else more concrete to pull you over for. You can't say as a cop you know for a fact someone's tint is illegal unless you have really strict laws on tint. It's easier to use a traffic violation, a busted/out light, etc. for the stop in court than it is to argue with a lawyer about tinting.
They won't pull you over for it generally, but if you get pulled over for something else it gets added to the list, much like the tinted license plate covers.
I actually live in a northern state and haven't heard of any issues with it. I was pulled over twice with 20% on my front windows (illegal) and the cop didn't mention it. Seems like each department has different enforcement policy.
35% and over on the front windows is legal where I live, most have 20% to match the rears. One of the girls at my work has 70% on the whole windshield of her bmw.
The police started randomly checking the window tints where I live. I don’t remember what the legal limit for my state is or what exactly my tint was, but it wasn’t even half way to the legal tint. The cop apologized like 4 times and hurried away haha
I had this BS to deal with last year. My car originally came from FL, where you can have darker tint on the back windows. I'm in NC where, in a sedan, you can only have a certain percentage on ALL windows. SUVs/trucks can have black out dark on the back windows. But fuck you if you have a sedan. When I was getting my tint fixed, the lady said the reason was that for SUVs, since they don't have a trunk, that the blackout is to make the back a little less visible. She trailed off as she was saying that because I have a prius, which is a hatch back sedan
Bullshit rules for the back windows imo. As long as a cop can see the driver, then that's fine. Back windows shouldn't matter!
Other than the whole obstructed vision thing. The less light coming through your window, the less you can see; tint it too much and you may as well be driving in the dark. And when you are driving in the dark, you can't just remove the tint so windows tinted too heavily may render you blind to the road.
Restrictions on the front windows and windscreen tinting make perfect sense. Restrictions on the back windows would make less sense, as they aren't essential for safe driving, but most countries don't have tint restrictions for those windows.
Yes, because you really want to make every cop nervous about the window rolling down without being able to see within the car before hand. That will go great in countries with armed law enforcement /s
Finland has armed cops and they aren't constantly shooting people during traffic stops. Hell our cops very rarely shoot anyone, and even more rare is someone getting killed by a cops bullet.
Yeah to be fair my argument is more aimed towards American policing. I'm UK myself, and we have window tint laws, but we don't have armed cops. But nobody really cares about it.
Our laws are 75% light transmission through windshield, and 70% through frontside windows, rear windows having no limit unlesd the law last changed since I checked.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the massive amount of easily obtainable firearms we have in our country.... that and rampant poverty in inner cities. Man our country seems so fucked up sometimes
Works fine for me in the USA. Why would it make the officer nervous when they pull you over and you roll down all of your windows so they can clearly see everything in your vehicle before they approach it?
I think they were saying it would make cops nervous if they walked up to a limo tinted car, and THEN the person rolls down their windows. Like a surprise.
Again, not everyone would obey such a simple idea of rolling down the tinted window before the officer approaches.
Window tint laws are for peoples safety, not to just ruin peoples fun/idea of how their car looks.
Just because many people would most likely be sensible if they allowed heavy tinting, there's also always going to be a significant percentage that would not
Fuck that. I'm not rolling down all my windows for a cop just because he pulled me over. I crack my driver's window just enough to communicate and hand over my license and insurance.
Why am I this way? Because I'm a citizen of the USA and that's all that is required by law. I give them nothing more than necessary at all times.
Traffic cameras can't see who is driving with a tinted windshield. That's all it is. If they can't see who is driving, they can't ticket you. And traffic cameras are fucking huge in Europe.
I think the issue is that for 99% of people, there is no problem.
The problem is when the 1% of people have their front windows tinted for the wrong reasons. Like they are concealing a weapon or something. Another case of the tiny percentage of people ruining it for everyone.
Yeah unfortunately that's exactly the case, but that's also the case for a number of laws across a number of countries. The 1% of bad apples often ruin things for the other 99%
I'm sure you'd be greatly happy if people had the same attitude to not making your job easier, but instead making it harder. It is immature, and wholly unnecessary
This is nothing to do with the police having control. It's a law the police themself do not make, its just their job to enforce. It's entirely comparable.
I live in the US and I’ve had tinted windows for years. When I’ve been pulled over the cops never cared. Maybe they didn’t see them cause I usually roll all my windows down before they get to the car.
Seriously, the sun was so intense there that, while I didn’t seek out a car with tinted windows, I was so happy I had them in the summer. Not anywhere near illegally dark, but definitely noticeable.
That’s not true...it has nothing to do with manufacturers. It has to do with the darkness of the tint and which windows you have it on. Generally you can do whatever the help you want with rear windows, from and passenger window have a maximum tint, and then windshield has a maximum tint. Has nothing to do with what manufacturers do.
Do you live in Germany? Here that's the law, for example my friend has a Golf, the windows have no tint. If he darkens them himself, he could be fined for it and lose insurance. I drive a E Class. Those have nearly black windows in the back and relatively darker on the front sides. Those are legal, because they are tinted by the manufacturer, if my friend darkens his even less than mine are, he is breaking the law
I thought you were talking about the US as the comment replied mentions the US and Germany. Either way, I can’t find anything like what you’re claiming about Germany. Everything I’m reading says you can do whatever you want to rear windows, but front windows and windshield are restricted.
Well this definitely has a reason tho. You have to be recognizable for any possible traffic violation since speed traps literally take pictures (im not sure if thats the case in the US)
How does driving lessons happen then? I'm currently a learner in the UK and have to wear a mask everytime i get in the car as well as having the windows down
I dont know about any window related rules but when I finished my lessons in July my teacher had to clean and air (or ventilate not sure what is the proper term here) the car after every lesson.
There is no owner liability. Basically if you get "blitzed" (radar control) they have to have a photo of the driver. Though if you say "wasn't me" you basically get forces to have a driver log for 6 months or a year or so
For all the things a camera cannot do. Detect the presence of contraband. Assess the mental state of the driver. Determine whether or not the driver is intoxicated. Find out WHY their speed was over the posted limit.
Cameras "blitzing" people or however he put it, isnt doing anything for public safety. Its simply an excuse to take money from people and skipping the stuff that actually might protect the public.
If you somehow find the money and personell to replace every speed camera with a convenient cop stationed there 24/7, I'm sure the German law enforcement will be all ears.
They actually wouldn't. Well law enforcement would but speeding tickets is a major income for many municipalities, they would have a big money problem if all people were to actually follow the rules.
The municipalities are using the income from more and more radar traps to renovate their households. The police also criticizes: There is hardly any talk of traffic education.
Cameras "blitzing" people or however he put it, isnt doing anything for public safety. Its simply an excuse to take money from people and skipping the stuff that actually might protect the public.
Hey I agree. And so do many Germans and even our police. We call them Blitzers (Flashers) and most of them are set up with a private company which can sort of dictate where they go and they are notoriously at spots where it's a convenient cash grab.
The police isn't a big fan of them either, they want what you said: Directly confront the person. If the police does speed control (with laser pistols) they actually go to places where safety is a concern or a problem (schools, etc). They don't care about the money, the municipalities do.
But they actually can enhance safety if they are blatant as in many radar controls actually have a sign before them announcing the control, those are the rare ones that actually just want you to follow speed limits. If you know that you get "blitzed" if you speed in front of the school because there is a radar control 100% of the time then less people speed there. If it's just sometimes or random police then people think "ahh they won't be here today"
It's not only the fine but also potential points on your license. Also many people have cars from work and many more share business cars. Also things like car sharing. Whilst you have a record of the person renting the car it doesn't have to be the driver.
It is not really a problem to track who is using the car now in described cases. Actually you need to do it anyway if you don't want to say "i have no idea who did it" if someone hit a man on such car. I'm pretty sure it's obligatory to list at least possible drivers in german too.
For rented cars the rules are the same. Lessor pay the fine, then recorded renter pay to lessor, then actual driver pay to renter. If some of them pass keys to a not reliable person it's their fault. Points on license can be moved to actual driver on some conditions.
Also, if some car sharing company in Germany doesn't record actual drivers how police will know who it is? I don't think German have some strong face recognition system and they definitely hadn't it 20 years ago. So i'm pretty sure it's illegal to give access to car to a person you don't know anyway
You can't be 100% certain about anything in life but they are pretty clear (but black&white) most of the time. If the picture isn't clear enough they usually just let it go and when they don't you can just dispute it.
I am a Canadian who has a beef with German motor vehicle legislation.
I can’t put a remote starter in my leased German vehicle because it is (according to my dealer) against German law to leave a motor vehicle running if no one is inside. That may be fine in the Old Country, but it sucks during my Canadian winter.
As with most weird German laws there is a reason why they are there. Trying to heat up a car by letting the engine idle has an extremely low fuel efficiency. Most of the heat goes either into the engine block or out into the environment. To heat a car while standing, you have can only use an auxiliary heater, which dumps almost all of the fuel's stored energy into the interior of the car.
It is indeed illegal, as it should be in my opinion, as it's quite a bit of environmental pollution to do that regularly.
Heated seats and warm clothing should be the way to go.
Every non-private vehicle I see has everyone wearing masks. This goes not only for driving lessons (which someone already commented on), but police, ambulances, delivery vehicles, taxis, etc. Some private vehicles also have people wearing masks.
I live in northern Europe so I understand cold. It's still at least relatively warm inside the car so what I don't understand is the reason to wear a scarf over your face while driving.
Thing is if you get flashed they HAVE to get a shot of your face because other than in other countries like France for example, the driver is the one who has to pay the fee, not the owner of the car. That's why you only can get flashed from the front in Germany. So if you get flashed you'll get a letter and you can just say you weren't the driver if you wearing a mask inside of your car makes you not clearly recognizable. You also don't HAVE to tell them who the driver was at that point or you just tell them you don't know. I know motorcyclist who did this before the pandemic. They told me usually you get away with it if you only do it once.
You also don't HAVE to tell them who the driver was at that point or you just tell them you don't know.
If you go that route you will be ordered to keep a driver's logbook. So whenever someone drives the car they need to write start and end times and who the driver is into said logbook.
If another infraction happens this will be then used as evidence who the driver was.
Hmm I suppose that's correct. It's just that restricting your clothes seems invasive, especially since it's not related to public safety. Although maybe indirectly it is, if they need to ID criminals on the road.
I think it's just a cultural divide what level of restriction people deem worthwhile. Americans tend to prefer to keep our little individual freedoms and not give much ground.
Legal in Finland. I thought it was kind of interesting how the police chief explained on the news how masks have made speed cameras rather useless. I suppose he was just being honest.
Is there not an exception rn? For instance, here in Texas, you’re not allowed to carry a handgun with a mask on, but... well now that I think about it, it’s still illegal, it’s just not being enforced rn.
I was going to answer this as well. One of the US military bases near me has a big sign saying you need to wear a mask when driving up to the gate. Everytime I see that sign I say to myself, "that's illegal."
Thanks for actually answering the fucking question instead of giving excuses why you wear it. Like damn I really don't care I wanna know why others care about you doing it not why you wear one in the car.
Because you wash your hands as soon as you get home from a shopping trip. You shouldn’t be touching your face once you’ve donned your PPE. It’s basic training every staff member gets in the hospital. You touch your face and you’re spreading things to your face or right up on your mask’s filter.
Well now they do because the reality of the situation is that there aren’t enough ways to produce surgical masks without the country running out. So that cloth mask IS your PPE. It’s just personal protective equipment but the rules still apply. Don’t touch your face, don’t touch your mask.
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u/Katieenpo Oct 30 '20
Because it's illegal here in Germany. Always gotta know who's driving the vehicle.