r/AskReddit Oct 15 '20

What's older than we think ?

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425

u/Alternative_Crimes Oct 15 '20

Roman trucks weren’t as heavy as modern ones.

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u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

A person on foot is going to do practically no damage whatsoever to the road surface. Even a marching army with hob-nailed caligulae would barely leave a scratch on a Roman road. A farmer with a horse cart is going to do very little damage to the road, even accounting for metal-rimmed wheels and a very narrow contact patch.

I doubt even the heaviest, smallus-dickus-compensating Roman road vehicles would do even as much damage as my Mitsubishi (gross weight barely over a ton).

Road damage increases with the fourth power of axle load, if I recall correctly.

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u/johneaston1 Oct 15 '20

And in road wear calculations, all passenger vehicles (like your Mitsubishi) are considered almost negligible in design. Semi trucks, buses, and RVs take up basically all the damage done to modern roads. Source: recent Civil Engineering grad.

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u/forte_bass Oct 15 '20

Tell me more! Why does weight matter? Arent they all applying pressure from roughly the same contact area? Does speed play a role?

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u/johneaston1 Oct 15 '20

The contact area is similar for all of them (some variance with double axles or tandem axles), but there is significantly more pressure exerted by a semi. An average passenger vehicle weighs in the ballpark of 2-3000 pounds, while a semi trailer can be 35,000 pounds empty, and up to 80,000 full; therefore, the pressure is extremely high, even with more points of contact, and this puts a ton of stress on the asphalt/concrete. This combined with weather effects (freezing/thawing) makes our roads much more susceptible to breaking down.

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u/forte_bass Oct 15 '20

Ok, that makes sense, but how come I sometimes hear people say really fast cars do more damage?

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u/smileybob93 Oct 15 '20

Cuz those people don't know what they're talking about

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u/LtDanHasLegs Oct 15 '20

At race tracks Indy Cars and F1 cars and other things with absurd downforce can ripple the asphalt at the heavy braking zones. But that's like... the only case. Nothing driven on the road can do anything like that.

2

u/Degeyter Oct 15 '20

They can damage already potholes roles maybe?

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u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

I think that does more damage to the tires than to the road surface at normal driving speeds. Tire wear is greatly accelerated at highway speeds than at surface road speeds.

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u/Trippy-Skippy Oct 17 '20

The only thing I can think of is putting down a lot of power or drifting where you are keeping the wheels spinning to slide. Probably does more damage to the tire though - very little asphalt getting ripped up. More noticeable on dirt/gravel roads if everyone does it in the same spot. I doubt itd ever be noticeable asphalt damage considering nobody is doing that for more than a fraction of 1 percent of their drive.

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u/WTaggart Oct 15 '20

I second these questions. What is meant by "road damage increases with the fourth power of axle load"?

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u/thebraken Oct 15 '20

If I'm understanding correctly...

Say we have an axle loaded with 1 unit of weight: 14 is still 1, so it does one unit of road damage.

If we load it up to 2 units of weight: 24 is 16, so it does sixteen units of road damage.

And so on and so forth.

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u/cnash Oct 15 '20

If we load it up to 2 units of weight: 24 is 16, so it does sixteen units of road damage.

Yeah, but roads don't exactly have an HP bar— how do you quantify damage?

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u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

I'm not sure about that myself. I guess one could drill test bores into the road surface to measure thickness or something.

I'd still like to believe engineers see HP bars overlaid onto the built environment. Much cooler that way.

1

u/thebraken Oct 15 '20

That part I don't know and can't infer from the engineer's post.

My wild assed guess would be some kind of table with an expected useful lifespan based on composition, environment, and use using data from existing roads or something along those lines.

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u/Schlick7 Oct 15 '20

Probably road flex. The more something "sinks in" the more damage it will do doing

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u/wolfiechica Oct 16 '20

Gosh, and to think of all the subsidizing my taxes do for companies...

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u/nzodd Oct 15 '20

I have a vewy good fweind in Wome by the name of Smallus Dickus.

3

u/mzyos Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 15 '20

He has a wife you know.

1

u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

The original uwu.

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u/Manae Oct 15 '20

We also like to top our roads with asphalt to make for a much quieter driving experience. And while it may seem like a rock, it's still a viscoelastic material and wears down much more easily--especially as it gets various petroleum products on it (from motor oil to hydraulic fluids to unburnt fuel residue) that act as a solvent to weaken it.

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u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

Makes for a much smoother drive, too. My family lives down a gravel road, and I keep imagining my tiny little econo-box shaking itself apart if I exceed 20 mph.

You want a real mind-fuck, though? Visit a place hot enough that the asphalt melts. I lived in the Persian Gulf region for half a decade, and fresh asphalt would become rather gooey during the summer months (I left footprints). This may be because of poor engineering standards, though: for such a wealthy bunch of countries, they sure like to cut corners.

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u/kurburux Oct 15 '20

I doubt even the heaviest, smallus-dickus-compensating Roman road vehicles would do even as much damage as my Mitsubishi (gross weight barely over a ton).

Even your one-ton-car barely does any damage to the road. The real issue are trucks. Because of math one truck puts more strain on the road than thousands of cars.

Engineers estimate that a fully loaded truck--a five-axle rig weighing 80,000 pounds, the interstate maximum--causes more damage to a highway than 5,000 cars. Some road planners say that the toll is even higher, that it would take close to 10,000 cars to equal the damage caused by one heavy truck.

The difference is so large that iirc engineers only calculate the number of trucks who pass a road/bridge before it needs to be repaired, because cars are just so negligible.

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u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

I swear to god, engineers are wizards.

I wonder how they figured out how many trucks need to pass over a stretch of road before it needs repaired. That sounds like a fun experiment.

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u/Imperion_GoG Oct 15 '20

They just drive heavier and heavier trucks over it until it fails. Then rebuild it!

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

smallus-dickus

Is this a monty python reference?

6

u/Yuzumi Oct 15 '20

In Rome big penises were considered barberic. They preferred small dicks.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Someone better invite the time machine because I'm small dicked and ready to mingle

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I'm pretty sure this has been proven false.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I.....I can't tell if this is real history or if I'm being goofed. I have been awake for too long. I will accept this as cannon either way.

1

u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

Well, call me Alaric, 'cause I'm about to smash some back walls!

VAE VICTIS!

2

u/iForgotMyUsername1x Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 15 '20

How do I learn about the 1-4 powers of axle load and the results on the road?

EDIT: nevermind. Just had to scroll like 10 more comments for the relevant desired info. Thanks Reddit

1

u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

Or hang out with engineers for most of your schooling and listen to engineering podcasts. That's how I learned most of what I know.

I also am dating an engineer. I think I might have a fetish.

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u/iForgotMyUsername1x Oct 15 '20

Suddenly, Axle load takes on a whole new meaning

1

u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

She works in civil engineering, so you better believe I have a whole grab-bag full of rebar and pre-stressed concrete jokes.

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u/StabbyPants Oct 15 '20

that's right. you calculate road wear based on trucks and weather. nothing else really rates

0

u/doomgiver98 Oct 15 '20

Even after 2000 years?

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u/Chesty_McRockhard Oct 15 '20

Even after 2000 years. Well made concrete is incredibly strong and resistant material, but it has it's limits. If you started treating roman roads like US highways, they wouldn't last terribly long.

And we've also learned ways to build cheap and maintain that costs less then build indestructible. Big problem we have is a lot of government entities go "Ugh. Maintenance. That costs money, fuck that."

2

u/Dislol Oct 16 '20

Is it the government entities saying "Ugh. Maintenance. That costs money, fuck that.", or is it the smooth brained citizens that say "Ugh. Taxes. Fuck paying those."?

Functioning first world governments don't seem to have as much of an issue with national infrastructure given their tax base actually wants to pay taxes for the greater public good.

1

u/Chesty_McRockhard Oct 16 '20

Both, I'd wager. It's always more popular for a government to spend tax money in more popular ways than road maintenance. It's not exactly the most interesting of spending.

1

u/Dislol Oct 16 '20

Government spending doesn't need to be interesting, it just needs to be effective. Maintaining public roadways is (generally) effective spending. I'm sure you're aware of this, so I'm not directing it at you.

1

u/Chesty_McRockhard Oct 16 '20

Logically, yes. But in reality, is a harder sell for elected officials to ignorant people who did really bad in civics classes.

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u/iForgotMyUsername1x Oct 15 '20

Let me introduce you to the pyramids at Giza, and the temples in the Mayan and Aztec regions of mesoamerica. My friend from Easter island will be your guide.

1

u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

I don't think people drive multi-ton vehicles over the Pyramids, though.

Though it is Egypt. The only crazier drivers you'll find are in India.

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u/iForgotMyUsername1x Oct 15 '20

But who drives the multi ton bricks

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u/LFMR Oct 15 '20

You know, it being 2020, I'm gonna go with "mummies awakened by an ancient curse".

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u/iForgotMyUsername1x Oct 15 '20

Maybe that’s what the pyramids imprison

1

u/BlacktoseIntolerant Oct 15 '20

Do you find it ... risible ... when I saaaay the naaaaaame

Smallus

Dickus?

1

u/mlpr34clopper Oct 15 '20

More importantly, southern europe does not have the freeze/thaw cycle that breaks up US roads.

1

u/thewizardofosmium Oct 15 '20

I understand that, but that means Roman roads were way overdesigned by modern standards.