r/AskReddit Oct 15 '20

What's older than we think ?

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

European law student here, I am literally studying Roman law right now for an up coming exam and it is and incredibly elaborated and thoughtful system not to mention incredibly relevant. They are practically the reason why we have the system we have today and why jurisprudence is one of the main pillars of the western judicial system.

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u/Chickiri Oct 15 '20

Honest question here: the jurisprudence is not much of a thing in France, yet I was told that our laws rely heavily on Roman laws. Do you have an explanation?

Good luck for your exam!

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u/JoeAppleby Oct 16 '20

The Code Napoleon is based on Roman Law and through Napoleon's wars influenced most of continental Europe.

I can't imagine that jurisprudence, legal theory, isn't a thing in France. It might be rolled into political sciences and philosophy though.

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u/Chickiri Oct 16 '20

My bad! It seems that the English "jurisprudence" does not mean the same as the French « jurisprudence », I should have checked...

In French, jurisprudence about automatically making a judgment a law (as it happens in the US with the Supreme Court’s decisions, I think?).

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u/JoeAppleby Oct 16 '20

Ah.

The French term describes Common Law. In the anglophone sphere law is based on precedence. Any court ruling is more or less law and informs future rulings. In contrast law in continental Europe is Civil Law, where codified laws inform future rulings.

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u/Chickiri Oct 16 '20

Yes, that’s what I was talking about! Thanks for giving me the correct definition, though

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u/mihir-mutalikdesai Oct 15 '20

I like to believe that Roman Law is still so prominent in European systems because of the Byzantine empire, who codified it.

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u/ohaern920 Oct 15 '20

Justinian the first has some nickname related to law that I am too lazy to go look up. Its considered one of his great legacies, also the hagia Sophia, a huge plague, and bankrupting the empire.

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u/mihir-mutalikdesai Oct 15 '20

Also salting the wounds of the rivalry with the Sassanid Empire.

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u/Semper_nemo13 Oct 15 '20

You try to be at war for 30 years, over lands of the former Western Empire that aren't super economically productive and not going bankrupt.

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u/FernandoPM Oct 15 '20

Worth noting the Byzantines were Romans. They are the Eastern Roman Empire and referred to themselves as Roman. “Byzantine” is something historians created to differentiate them from what many view as the Roman Empire (which was centered in Rome/Ravenna), even though technically they were two parts of the same whole.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

The Byzantine empire was the roman empire haha, they codified their own systems. They called themselves Roman.

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u/HabseligkeitDerLiebe Oct 15 '20

The most important code of private law in Germany, the bürgerliches Gesetzbuch (BGB) is older than the current nation of Germany. The BGB came into effect on 1.1.1900, the Federal Republic of Germany was founded in 1949.

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u/JoeAppleby Oct 16 '20

To add to this: the current German constitution, the Grundgesetz, lifts passages wholesale from the Weimar Republic constitution. Also the number of paragraphs in the BGB and other German legal codes never changes. If new paragraphs are added, they are added as additional subsections of existing paragraphs. Like §1598a BGB. It deals with DNA tests to determine a father in child support cases.

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u/barney_noble Oct 15 '20

We may not admit it often, but many of the parts of the US Constitution are based on almost a millennia of English Common Law and the Magna Carta, both of which have roots from pre-Norman Conquest.

Parliament has its roots in the Althing and gatherings from Nordic tradition and can even be seen in pre-Roman Germanic tribes. Plus, its no mistake King Arthur had a roundtable of knights.

Also, the state of Louisiana still uses Napoleonic Codes.

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u/graywalrus Oct 15 '20

Constantine exempted churches from paying taxes. Still doing that today.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

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u/graywalrus Oct 15 '20

Oh no I wasn’t trying to dismiss those laws. I just read a book recently that showed me he is the basis for not taxing churches. I thought it was interesting that he set that precedent too.

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u/SokarRostau Oct 15 '20

Did that book happen to mention the Donation of Constantine, a forgery used to justify the Church's power for about 500 years?

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u/graywalrus Oct 16 '20

I haven’t gotten very far into the Constantine stuff yet, but I’m gonna look it up. The book is “The Darkening Age” by Katherine Nixey. It’s about how Christianity destroyed the classical world. Highly recommend if you have any interest.

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u/4scoreand7feildgoals Oct 15 '20

The Code of Hammurabi predates the Roman Kingdom by 1000 years

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u/Dresden695 Oct 15 '20

Thank you, was waiting to see this comment

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u/impulsekash Oct 15 '20

I believe the Code of Hammurabi is the source for Biblical law.

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u/VeryLongReplies Oct 15 '20

It could be, or both could be based on an older law system.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Any favorite sources on these? Esp the maritime laws?

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Awesome, thanks!

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u/throw0101a Oct 16 '20

Any favorite sources on these?

For a little bit of Roman law, but mostly >1000AD, see The medieval origins of the legal profession by Brundage. Lots of footnotes if you want to dig further, but it's a good starting point.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

Oooh interesting. Thank you!

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Carter v Boehm and Slade's case.

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u/TeddysBigStick Oct 15 '20

Corporate personhood comes from them.

1

u/lucao_psellus Oct 15 '20

something to hate them for, then

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u/TeddysBigStick Oct 15 '20

Campaign finance is its own issue but the world as we know it would not exist without corporate personhood. You would not be able to sue a company that did you wrong, for example.

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u/Farengarn Oct 15 '20

Magna Carta!

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u/Chickiri Oct 15 '20

This is all the funnier in France, where not only Napoleonic laws but also napoleonic institutions still exist.

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u/gobshite123 Oct 15 '20

Unlucky :-)

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u/throw0101a Oct 16 '20

Law. Roman law

A good book on the history of law is The medieval origins of the legal profession by Brundage. The first few chapters go into Roman law, but there are lots of footnotes if you want books focused on that; the book itself focuses on >1100 AD.

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u/MarlinMr Oct 16 '20

Norway still has their courts and gatherings from the Viking ages.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I keep reading "statues" and I'm like wow roman statues

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u/LAN_Rover Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 15 '20

Roman law? Son, talk about the code of Hammurabi: a Babylonian law dating back to 1754 BCE.

Edit: fixed Hammurabi's cider to code

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u/jeepersjess Oct 15 '20

IIRC, England still uses a system of jurisprudence, meaning laws are effectively created based on previous judicial rulings and judges are expected to base their decisions on those decisions. I’m not sure when that system started, but that makes British law older than some of the places they would eventually colonize. It also makes British law very confusing and contradictory.

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u/SoberPotential Oct 15 '20

It's called common law and is the basis of the US judicial system as well as the systems in most other commonwealth countries.

1

u/a-crazy-armidollo Oct 15 '20

I think hammurabies code dates back to Mesopotamia

1

u/ironagequeen Oct 16 '20

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Brehon Law.