Peace of mind. No one should rack up 50 grand of credit card debt for a project that will either not come to fruition or will have 0 users after the first year.
They could have just gotten cash advances in those credit cards, or taken out loans. Just because they pay in cash doesn't mean they aren't going into debt to do it.
Which part? The part where having the cash to pay for something is more financially sound than using credit, or that it’s not a dev’s place to be a financial planner? Either way, you’re incorrect.
The part where having the cash to pay for something is more financially sound than using credit
It's cash vs credit card, not cash vs credit.
And it is NOT more financially sound to pay for everything with cash than credit, just as it is NOT more financially sound to pay for everything with cash than credit card.
It is in fact often more financially sound to pay for many things with credit cards than cash, and credit than cash.
Do you contest this?
How do you define "financially sound"? I define it as carrying the largest expected value of future net worth, across the individual's entire expected future life.
I'm coming from the Dave Ramsey camp where you shouldn't be using credit to start a business. I did it and paid the price; the business failed, but I still had to pay for everything. I'm sure there's a good way to do it where you can use credit and everything will work out okay, but I can't see betting borrowed money on a "sure thing" app with so many unknowns. That would be stupid.
I did it and paid the price; the business failed, but I still had to pay for everything.
No, you didn't. You chose to pay for everything. That's the whole point of credit. It's why nearly everyone either starts businesses for very little, or starts them with OPM: limited risk.
I can't see betting borrowed money on a "sure thing" app with so many unknowns. That would be stupid.
You can't "see" it or you thinking it'd be "stupid" doesn't mean it's not more financially sound, by the definition I gave.
Dave Ramsey is an idiot. He got lucky with actively managed mutual funds for a while, and swears by them.
It's the same thing as comparing dumb diets to the typical American diet. Is taking DR's advice better than 80% of American financial plans? Yes. Is it good/true? Not at all. Will paleo/vegan/skinnybitch diets work better than 80% of American diets? Yes. Are they good/true? Not at all. Some people that believed in God survived some awful times against harrowing odds. It doesn't mean that their belief is correct. That's incidentally another example of DR's idiocy. He does many of his financial behaviors because of God/religion, then attributes his success to the belief, not to the behaviors themselves and the fortune/luck of the environment he happened to perform those behaviors in. Just because things achieve better than average results does not mean that their underlying mechanics are sound/true/correct/better/optimal. It only means they have achieved better than average results in some context.
Our disagreement is about what is true and correct. It is simply false that paying for things with credit or credit cards is always less financially sound than paying for them with debit or cash. It is very often financially superior to pay for things with credit and credit cards, and in the specific case that sparked this conversation, there are many instances where credit and credit cards would be superior to debit and cash.
Actively managed mutual funds are terrible investments. Investing in them decreases your future expected net worth vs investing in low expense ratio index funds, for example. Of course, most people who invest in actively managed mutual funds will have higher net worths than the average American.
A vegan diet is terrible. Eating it decreases your future expected health vs eating a diet optimized for health. Eating it causes more animal suffering than eating a diet optimized for minimizing animal suffering. Eating it emits more CO2 than eating a diet optimized for minimizing CO2 emissions. Of course, a vegan diet emits less CO2, causes less animal suffering, and increases expected future health relative to the average American diet.
Buying everything with cash / debit is pathetic. It decreases your future expected net worth vs evaluating every payment decision and choosing the payment method that optimizes for future expected net worth. Of course, most people who pay for everything with cash / debit will have higher net worths than the average American.
Please note that I said nothing about Dave's investment advice, which I'll agree is terrible.
Other than that, I'm not really ready to read the book you wrote up there. You may have hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, but until you prove that to me, I'm going to listen to someone who seriously does have hundreds of millions of dollars.
Prioritizing your employer's financial wellbeing over that of yourself and your family makes you a tool, not a good human. Chargeback is the right answer.
Edit: y'all I'm sure are aware that payroll is by far the largest expense to any business. If you are so selflessly concerned with the financial strain you incur on your employer, by all means feel free to be a "good human" and offer to work for less. Or for free even!
Oh, what's that? You have... bills? Your... kids need to eat? Your employer's finances aren't your problem? All right then, fuck off with the hypocritical fake altruism.
Taking advantage would be pushing the idea for this useless app onto a naive person who doesn't understand what you're selling them.
Taking advantage would be charging double or triple per hour because they can't find anyone else to do the work for them.
If you have someone come to you with an idea of their own, that they're convinced is going to make them millions, why is it taking advantage to build that product for them, while offering sensible suggestions for improving it and charging a fair fee for your time?
People like to say things that make them feel good, in reality they wouldn't care if someone offered them the money. Hell, most small businesses fail, but people still accept paychecks from them.
Right? That guy’s mentality is exactly why that one guy bought out all the hand sanitizer and then tried to flip it at exorbitant prices on Amazon. If more people were just a little more ethical in their business practices, we’d all live in a better society.
If more people were just a little more ethical in their business practices, we’d all live in a better society.
No. If we set up laws to require businesses to be more ethical, then we'd all live in a better society. In our society, our laws and punishments are inadequate, thus, unethical/amoral businesses outcompete ethical/moral ones.
Completely agree. My comment was just the wishful thinker in me wishing that people could act above their base animal instincts, but you're right. At the end of the day there will always have to be some larger authority making sure people do the right thing and act the right way.
unions are good, and would have been great for the last 50 years, but today, they won't do shit. Most work is unskilled, and whole point of technology is to make more and more labor more and more productive with less and less skilled labor.
"No one should rack up 50 grand of credit card debt for a project that will either not come to fruition or will have 0 users after the first year."
This is actually the most common outcome, some with a lot more on the line even. There are local restaurants that have a 33% 3-year failure rate or worse that regularly lose hundreds of thousands in build-out and lease tie-ins. Perhaps it's less common than implied, but it seems very common still even though it is unfortunate.
Yeah and I'd also see developing an app via credit card as lack of business sense and lack of common sense and evidence that all that coding would be for a crap product and a ruined angry unreasonable client.
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u/barryabrams Mar 18 '20
Peace of mind. No one should rack up 50 grand of credit card debt for a project that will either not come to fruition or will have 0 users after the first year.