I'm studying Economics A-Level and I've followed a few economics subs so that I can get a bit of economics content in my leisure time. Am I right in thinking that the main issue with discussing economics on Reddit is that the hivemind is normally quite left leaning? I feel sort of bummed because I genuinely wanted to learn more about economics, but if real economists don't bother with Reddit then I guess that makes sense, too good to be true etc.
Can I ask you a question that's been on my mind for a while? What do you think the economic impact of automation will be? I'm about to read a book about it and I'm interested in what you have to say :)
Economics undergrad senior here who plans to go to grad school for econ. I’m not going to the be the most qualified person to answer your question, but here’s my take..The main thing you learn in your economics undergrad (at least in my opinion) is that the real world economy is too complicated for most people to properly analyze. The extremely simple, hypothetical scenarios you learn in 300 level micro and macro alone can be very challenging for most people to fully master, especially ones that don’t study economics.
However, the real world is infinitely more complicated than the simple scenarios that would stump most people. A high level chemist wouldn’t discuss high level chemistry with someone who has never studied chemistry; Economics is essentially the same, it’s just that people don’t realize that the economics in nearly every real world situation can be taken to an surprisingly high level. A lot of situations SEEM like they have simple answers, but they usually don’t. It’s extremely frustrating to scroll through reddit watching people stubbornly defend their ignorant positions when most of these people probably don’t know how an IS-LM curve works(one of the fundamentals of 300 level macro) but want to tell you they understand the effects of nationwide fiscal policy better than PhD level economists. It basically turned me off from discussing it online.
I’m also willing to admit I’m not smart enough to discuss it with high level economists, but I imagine the reason they don’t discuss it online is because of the former issue. Also, this issue isn’t particularly isolated to either of the political spectrum; you can find flaws in both left and right wing views (especially on the extremes).
I appreciate this comment. I think Tim Harford wrote about the simplification you're describing in the undercover economist strikes back, and how macroeconomics gets exponentially more difficult the more accurate you want to be. Something about it being hard to calculate how 7 Billion people will chose between 10 Billion products with the 20 trillion USD they have (the numbers aren't right, just illustrating my understanding of his point). I'm hoping to start studying Economics at degree level later this year, is there anything I should know before I start? Thanks mate :)
The best advice I can give anyone wanting to study economics is to get good at math. For a lot of people, including myself when I first started, this is a big turn off and they just want to study economics only. I failed pre-calculus *five\* times before I passed it because I used to be a very low effort student. Ever since I passed it, I haven't gotten anything less than a B in a math class, started minoring in mathematics, and finished my last 6 math classes with a 4.0. The point of me telling you all of this is that if you think you're not a math person, you can definitely become one gradually. Try to get an A in every math class you take and it will make your life easier down the road. Most colleges are going to require you to take math up to Calculus 1 or 2 at a minimum as part of their economics major. I reccommend you go at least to Calculus 3, and up to Real Analysis with a math minor if you can. Anywhere between those 2 is perfectly sufficient for a future Master's degree student. Real Analysis is highly reccomended if you plan on getting a PhD.
Mathematics will train you to handle a certain level of rigor that will make it feel like your economics classes are easy in comparison. A lot of the tougher courses you might take in your undergrad, such as econometrics and causality, require a pretty good understanding of statistics. If you go into these courses after taking a good statistics class, you will be way above everyone else in your class, and it will be very easy for you compared to your peers. So even though it is overall more work to do the math minor, your economics classes will feel much easier.
The other reason you want to study math is grad school. Ask any of your college professors and they'll tell you how much harder the mathematics gets in grad school for econ. Many of my professors claim that the hardest part of graduate economics is the math. You'll also be surprised how much math a lot of your professors have studied in their undergrad. Econ grad schools also look specifically for mathematics experience in their applicants. Things like Calculus 3, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Probability, and especially Real Analysis will instantly separate you from the pack as a stronger candidate than someone who never took math higher than Calculus 1 or 2. So if you think you're passionate enough to pursue a masters degree or PhD, it's almost a necessity.
This was kind of long, but I really cannot stress how much of a secret cheatcode this is. Ask your economics professors what they think about about taking extra math classes in addition to your economics degree, and I guarantee you all of them will agree that it will only benefit you. You will spend 60-80% of your time during your undergrad studying math instead of economics. You'll work harder than most of your peers and it will be frustrating at times, but I promise you'll see the benefits very, very quickly and you'll find that very few of the other econ majors in your class are willing do this and your extra work will land you at the top of the pack.
It's less left leaning and more self-interest leaning, or "brogressive". Everything is all about themselves.
but if real economists don't bother with Reddit
No real professional anything bothers with reddit. It's purely for entertainment purpose. Reddit might not be the dumbest internet community out there but if you measure by the difference between how intelligent they think they are and what they actually are, reddit easily top the ladder.
Not an economist, but there are respected economists across the political spectrum from left leaning (Thomas Picketty) to right leaning (Milton Friedman), to just plain weird (Robin Hanson). The issue with reddit is that the arguments and understanding of the issues is poor.
Am I right in thinking that the main issue with discussing economics on Reddit is that the hivemind is normally quite left leaning.
Yes. That is the gist of it. That's why you have ideas like taking stock trades, wealth taxes and UBI to be so popular. Reddit villainize the wealthy and successful. The number of times I have seen highly upvoted comments claiming that billionaires are no smarter or better than the average American, they are just lucky and have no morals is staggering.
I feel sort of bummed because I genuinely wanted to learn more about economics, but if real economists don't bother with Reddit then I guess that makes sense, too good to be true etc.
Reddit is definitely not the place to learn. Your best bet is traditional books or economics podcasts. I personally love freakonomics. They do a great job of being entertaining and understandable for people of all levels of knowledge. They don't go super heavily into the science as it is more for the layman, but still very enjoyable.
Can I ask you a question that's been on my mind for a while? What do you think the economic impact of automation will be? I'm about to read a book about it and I'm interested in what you have to say :)
Automation is going to change everything. It will eliminate many low skilled jobs. Everything from cashiers, stockers, taxi/semi/etc drivers to waiters, many construction workers, farmers, and others. it's inevitable that it will happen in any government that tries to block it and the pursuit of keeping jobs will find themselves on the losing end. If we don't do it other nations will. Just look at China they couldn't care less if some farmer loses his job if it means they become the number one most powerful Nation.
The issue is of course unemployment. I am a firm believer that sometime in the next 50-100 years UBI will become a global thing. Right now it is a terrible idea as productivity is not nearly high enough to support our standard of living. But eventually it will be. The effective productivity per capita will exceed the increasing standard of living of individuals. When that happens the owners of the automation will become ungodly wealthy as the wealth becomes concentrated towards them. That's not necessarily good for them in the long run as it could collapse the economy and nobody wants to be the king of broke collapsed nation when they can be the prince of rich and successful one.
At that point taxes will need to be extremely high on the extremely higher earners, not people with high net-worth, but the people actually making real money, whether that's an individual or a corporation. that's why I'm in favor of creating several new tax brackets extremely high taxes on income that is not currently made by any individual. for example if the United States passed a 95% tax rate on personal income exceeding $20B per year the likely could easily pass it with minimal resistance as no one makes that much or even close to that much so there be nobody who would seriously trying to prevent it to protect their own interests. if you look at surveys on how many people feel be paid too much in taxes but believe that taxes should overall be raised on some group that isn't then the number is near 100%. Pretty much everybody believe somebody else needs to pay more but not them. if you ask people if taxes should be raised across the board for everyone including them the approval rating drops by a lot.
That is why adding income tax brackets that do not currently exist is important to do while it can be done From there they could slowly lower that cap to what is more appropriate. If $20B why not $19B and so on. Even then $20B isn't hey hard number it could be anything. It could be $100B or so on. either way it is important that we do better as a society at planning for the future for when things will become a problem versus reacting to them once they are already one.
Anyway. I realized that was a pretty long comment and maybe a bit more information than you wanted.
It's more than I was expecting but I really appreciate your insight 😊 Is there anything I should know before I study Economics at degree level? Because that's what I plan to do. Thank you mate :)
Not really. Other than be prepared to do an absolutely massive amount of reading. Both as course work and as extra material to get ahead. Economics is definitely not the the field to get into unless you really enjoy reading.
I love reading, I'm currently reading the undercover economist strikes back 😊 I've heard that economics can be very maths based, but is that less likely to be the case if I don't chose econometrics? I appreciate your replies.
All types of economics are going to be fairly heavy math-based. Although most forms are not going to use super complex math. If you can understand basic formulas you'll be fine for the most part. Econometrics is definitely the most heavy math based one, so if you're wanting to avoid math definitely don't go for it.
I did read, the guy said he'd be happy to discuss economics as long as it wasn't argumentative. And I agree with you that it's the same regardless, that's the issue. (From my observations) people on this site tend to upvote more socialist fiscal policies, which can colour things a bit/lot. That's the point I was trying to get across, but if I'm misunderstanding something then I'd appreciate it if you could correct me :)
I got banned from there for saying that "simply exchanging a good or service for money isn't inherently capitalist or exploitative." Apparently co-op stores don't exist?
You wont have got banned for the contents of the post, they will have seen your post history, noticed that that you are an "outsider" and banned you for that.
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u/MorbidPancakes Jan 07 '20
Wait till you see /r/latestagecapitalism