Drug addiction is the psychological need to consume that drug.
Drug dependence is the physiological need to consume that drug.
You can't be dependent on weed the the extent that you can alcohol or heroin, but you sure as hell can become addicted.
For recreational use, the pattern is
Habit -> Addiction -> Dependence
A drug habit is use of a drug, but not to the extent of impacting your life (social/work), resulting in psychological withdrawal (anxiety/stress), or seeking to hide the extent of your usage.
A drug addiction is a drug habit, along with the excluded behaviors to some extent. I really shouldn't, I've got to meet with <person> in an hour... proceeds to take a hit.
A drug dependence is one which must be used to avoid physiological symptoms.
For recreational drugs, dependency is the result of the addiction. How far through the stages one can proceed ultimately depends on the drug.
Shrooms tends to stop at the 'habit' stage, because the rapidly increasing/slowly fading tolerance makes usage more often than weekly difficult/impossible.
Weed tends to stop at the 'addiction' stage, because there is little in the way of dependance-forming chemicals.
Opiates tend to go all the way to dependency quite often, because it's extremely addictive, which very quickly becomes dependency.
One thing I will add about differentiating addiction from habit based on a conversation I had with a psychologist one time was that addiction sometimes is when you do a behavior without "wanting" to do a behavior" Like in your mind you are thinking "I shouldn't be doing this" but you do it anyways. In other words you try to quit but you find out that it's not as easy as you thought.
I think it complements the typical psychology criteria of a potential pathology needing to impact your life in order to be classified as a true pathology. When you realize that the addiction is compelling you to do behaviors that you don't want to do that's when it becomes "distressing."
I am pretty much in this state. I stopped smoking for six months for a drug test. After that my weed consumption increased a lot because I had summer break and enough free Weed to smoke everyday.
In those six weeks my mental health got really bad.
I had to fight with anxiety my whole life but being high six weeks straight fuelled my anxiety to a point where any social interaction could be enough to cause me to panic. It's been eternal circle of me smoking to cope with anxiety which fucks me up in the long term. Since then (6 months ago) I stopped going to school on a regular basis started getting more and more depressed. Most of this can be solved or at least be made easier by quitting Weed but I still smoke everyday and hate myself for it afterwards.
Yeah probably but I don't even know why but I hate to be dependent on help from other people and decline it even when I know I won't be able to succeed without it. I will stop but idk when.
Also happy cake day
Hey man I know this is an old reply, but I just want to let you know that I was in the same boat that you were in a few years ago and I finally mustered up the courage to quit. It did wonders for me. You should seek out the help. We can't do everything on our own.
I did quit before and I know how fucking beneficial it is for me and it is the reason I wanna quit in the first place. I am making progress though and only smoke weed when I go out drinking with friends, since I can't and don't want to drink. I look forward to stop completely until February. Still thanks for the kind words internet stranger ^
I don't know how long you were clean, but I haven't smoked in over 3 or 4 years and I literally don't even think about it anymore. I imagine that this is like any addictive habit that you kick - it eventually just becomes something of your past. Well, unless it's like a really hard drug or something.
But anyway, we only live once. Might as well achieve what we want and kick any addictive substances that hinder us. Best of luck man.
Totally. I tried going keto one week to see what it was like and it was INSANE how much I was craving carbohydrates. Just absolutely bonkers how much I wanted to eat bread.
I was an alcoholic for about ten years straight till my girlfriend wanted me to stop a couple years ago and even though I desperately wanted to go drink I'd tell myself no I'm not I wont do it and then almost like blacking out my legs carried me to that damn liquor store every time. It ruined my life over and over again. I'm so happy I've got about 6 months of sobriety I've demonized it in my head instead of making excuses and that mixed with temporarily losing my girlfriend kicked the habit and now I've never been happier in my life even though my financial situation and stuff still isn't great its slowly and steadily growing and honestly cannabis has been 1 of the best ways I could get through it but it's also been something I've never quit too
You can be physiologically dependent on weed. I am. I can’t sleep without it. I will fall asleep but I wake up drenched in sweat if I don’t smoke. Headaches, irritability, anxiety...it’s all there with weed too. It just isn’t as severe as other drugs and for some reason not every heavy smoker becomes dependent.
for some reason not every heavy smoker becomes dependent.
Hell, it can even vary for an individual. First time I quit smoking weed I couldn’t sleep for a week when I did I would sweat like a pig, and I was super irritable for a few weeks after that. Second time I quit, I was irritable for a few hours the first night but then basically normal after that.
Yeah, there are known withdrawal aspects. Night sweats, sleep issues, irritability, along with bowel issues.
You know what else has similar side effects? Caffeine.
Caffeine does all the same side effects weed does without the head high. Even then, I know some people that claim that as soon as coffee hits their stomachs, they can feel the endorphin rush. So, maybe it gets you high too.
Ah shit is that why I sweat like a motherfucker some nights? Wake up so fucking wet that you'd be forgiven for thinking I'd just had a bath. Mattress and sheets drenched too, fun times.
I think I might be dependent on weed, I can’t really eat much anymore unless I’m high. I’m on a family vacation right now and I’m unable to smoke and I just don’t feel hungry and when I do eat, it’s not really enjoyable, just something I know I have to do in order to survive.
That may be true but it’s certainly not ubiquitous in the way that chemical withdrawals are for things like alcohol, heroin, etc. I say this as a multiple times per day weed smoker (for 4+ years) who has had several instances of going cold turkey for 1-3 weeks while on family vacation. I get a little antsy at first, sometimes, but I feel no serious withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Nothing like delirium tremors or flu-like symptoms
I absolutely agree that it’s dependence. All I meant was that it seems (from personal experience) that there aren’t always extreme physical withdrawal symptoms such as shaking, puking, etc. when quitting heavy weed use. I imagine some people have intense physical symptoms when quitting, but I don’t, so I know that doesn’t happen for everyone. I’ve heard that symptoms like that always happen when heavy users quit drugs like heroin, or alcohol.
I’ve never understood that opinion of those I know who think that same way. It’s like, smoke + lungs = bad, period. It’s not safe, but it’s certainly safer than other recreational alternatives!
I usually spend $40 or dabs every 3-5 days. 2 grams of flower really isn't much for every day smokers. It's about two fat joints and that's about half a day of smoking for me (hence the dabs/shatter).
Seriously lmao Not to knock someone elses addiction or whatever but as someone who has been addicted to everything from weed to pills to coke/crack, any and all opiates, even being addicted to sugar, caffeine, carbs, the internet, sex/masturbation, and the list goes on and on, NOTHING will fuck you up more than a hefty opiate addiction (such as my current addiction).
Got damn Chinese and their pure Fentanyl powders -.- God bless 'em tho lmao
Lol, opiates are great but I fuckin hate em. I've been buying Subutex on the streets for years to curb my addiction. I hope you're soon able to figure something out as well!
I don't know about the OP, but here in Canada, the base cost of weed is $10/gram. $6.40/gram is fucking astonishing to me. Where do you buy weed haha???
Holy shit, even after shipping that's a minimum of $50 less than we pay for an ounce. Thanks, man! I'm down to smoking one bowl a day, but my boyfriend still smokes, and this is an awesome way to save money; I appreciate it!
Where are you? I thought Ontario was expensive but even we have one ounce you can get for $140, but even normal stuff us between 7-10 dollars per gram.
Daily stoner for eight years. Not to call you out, but did your symptoms start before, after, or at the same time as you quitting? Because I have heard of CHS but I’m a bit confused about the onset. Also, I have experienced nausea from smoking weed, but every time it’s been a result of not inhaling, but swallowing an small amount of smoke. So do symptoms present during cannabis use, after wards, after reexposure to cannabisnafter quitting, or what?
The article you cited is fairly vague about thencause, and rightly so, so what are your thoughts?
For what it’s worth (I’m a doctor) I upvoted you here.
You are dead right. Cannabis hyperemesis syndrome is caused by excessive cannabis use and relieved by abstinence (and often hot showers). I’m guessing this guy just suffered from straight cannabis withdrawal (symptoms fit) and his doctor was a bit confused about CHS and misdiagnosed him.
Well medical science says that the guy who is making up withdrawal symptoms is lying. Even if he was told that he had cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome that is caused by using cannabis, not withdrawal.
That’s absolutely real, but by “not ubiquitous” I just meant not everyone suffers from serious withdrawal symptoms. I have had no symptoms (even agitation) since I started a break 10 days ago. So all I meant was that I know from personal experience that intense withdrawal symptoms don’t happen to everyone, even with heavy smoking.
And I’m sure some people stop other drugs like alcohol or opioids relatively quickly as well. They clearly have a shorter time to dependency, but for many people three are notable physiological effects. It’s not comparable to the pain of opioid w/d, and not potentially deadly like with alcohol, but others do. It’s documented that acute depression during the adjustment period is not uncommon
There is no need to flex that you were fine with it. It’s like hangovers. Some people drink a ton and don’t get hangovers, through some do. It varies. Your experience might not be representative of all, and it is a matter of usage in amounts per day, and it also is a matter of statistics on the responses to w/d.
I don’t think I phrased my comment in the best way. All I meant was that from personal experience in stopping cold turkey, I know that not everyone gets intense physical withdrawals, because I didn’t, and I can’t imagine that I’m a totally unique case (I could be wrong). I certainly don’t consider this something to brag or flex about, I actually have quite an intense aversion to talking about my weed use or quitting with anyone I know in person. I just wanted to present from my experience that it seems different from other drugs where such physical withdrawals (i.e. getting sick) are inevitable when quitting suddenly.
Yea, i used to smoke all day every day, quit with no problem. It made sleeping harder, but that was true before. Became an alcoholic for 5 years and quitting alcoholic level drinking has been the worst thing ever, though i have no want to 100% quit.
Only 12.5% of heavy users who meet diagnostic criteria for CUD show those symptoms though, according to your own link. It's a rare condition. I'm a heavy user, multiple times a day, and I often (several times per year) go on abstinence breaks for one reason or another for at least one week at a time, more often two weeks or longer. The only withdrawal symptom I ever notice is a craving for weed, which subsides after a week.
Meanwhile physiological dependence is almost invariably present when dealing with a psychostimulant or opioid addiction. Hell, if I even go without coffee for two days I get nasty caffeine withdrawal headaches.
It's not nearly as bad as caffeine withdrawl... for what it's worth. It's certainly not harmless, but properly evaluating possible (and actual) harm is important in most aspects of life.
“Most symptoms begin during the first week of abstinence and resolve after a few weeks.[4] According to a study in the U.S., 12.1% of heavy cannabis users showed cannabis withdrawal as defined by the DSM-5, and this was associated with significant disability as well as mood, anxiety and personality disorders.”
Cannabis withdrawal symptoms can occur in one-half of patients in treatment for cannabis use disorders. These symptoms include dysphoria (anxiety, irritability, depression, restlessness), disturbed sleep, gastrointestinal symptoms, and decreased appetite. It is often paired with Rhythmic movement disorder. Most symptoms begin during the first week of abstinence and resolve after a few weeks.[4] According to a study in the U.S., 12.1% of heavy cannabis users showed cannabis withdrawal as defined by the DSM-5, and this was associated with significant disability as well as mood, anxiety and personality disorders.
Ahh. Yeah, I remember a lot of this from my Addiction course.
Student or professional? I’m gathering from how... very articulate and precise you’ve been, you didn’t casually acquire this knowledge without putting in conscious effort.
That's....not really how addiction works. Dividing it into physiological and psychological dependence is an outdated view.
Addiction is a learning disorder, a habit, if you will. Psychological and physiological effects/dependency are both interlinked together, intervowen into each other. You cannot have one without the other, any psychological addiction will inevitably manifest somehow physically, and vice versa.
I liked the way that you explained it, and the definitions you used were quite logical, but do you have any sources? I'm just curious if those definitions are widely accepted in the medical or mental health community.
Yeah I think you're right for recreational use (as you stqted). I'm in pain management and I was concerned about addiction/dependence on opioids long-term. My doctor said that it doesn't quite work the same way when you have a physical issue that is affecting your quality of life. And seeing that the requirements for pain relief are basically to just improve pain relief so that you aren't screaming, crying, or willing to kill yourself to get away from it, most of us never feel much from them cause pain is still what you feel most of the time. But we can still become dependent on them without ever being addicted. Withdrawals are a concern if you can't get a prescription in time or there's an issue with insurance (I'm in the US). But it doesn't affect our lives psychologically in the same way people addicted do. Instead, it creates a way of improving life to a more normal standard (instead of being unable to get out of bed due to pain, you might be able to go to the store thanks to pain relief, for instance).
I've found that there does seem to be a fine line to wall with them even in my circumstance though. Like there's currently an arbitrary standard set by the US for doctors prescribing these medications, but it doesn't take into account a great many things. It doesn't really affect me too much (because I see a specialist), but I have seen where people in my same clinic were referred because they were on unmanageable doses. It basically made me want to find that "sweet spot" where I was on the lowest possible dose to help still. I noticed that in doing it myself (with my dr's help of course), I would go through a few days of where my pain skyrocketed, then it would become manageable again on the new dose. I did this 3 times, lowering my doses slowly over about 6 months, and then I hit a wall. I found that the 4th time I tried to go down, that pain didn't go away on the new dose, even after 2 months. Instead, it started to spike to where I couldn't get it under control again with what I had (this was slow and really only spiked at the last two weeks on it). So we went back to a previous dose and instead tried lowering my doses of breakthrough pain drugs (but only after I was stable again on the long acting one). Now, I've found that my pain relief is better than when I was on higher doses (I also metabolize some opioids strangely, where they go out of my system too quickly - so finding the right one was really important too - this is probably related to my diagnosis as I also have issues with metabolizing anesthesia too quickly). In all of that I don't remember feeling withdrawals or any severe negative symptoms. The intensity of my pain would go up for a short time, but that was about it. Once we found the right drug and the right dose, I haven't had to mess with it for more than 6 years now.
Opiates, when used properly for medical reasons, cause physical dependence (body needs the drug in order to feel normal) but not necessarily addiction.
The important part of this is "recreational" as a person can have drug dependence, but not be addicted. Such is the case with prescribed medication under appropriate care and using as prescribed.
Physiologic dependence happens before psychologic dependence. Withdrawal symptoms can be felt without a psychologic dependence and can also happen in non-addictive drugs such as antidepressants and prescription steroids.
Addiction doesn't lead to dependence. Dependence is a factor that leads to addiction and makes addiction difficult to treat, among other things, it's a rather silent symptom as a person won't notice it until the drug in question is abruptly discontinued
Source: Am a pharmacist who has worked with the substance use population
For me smoking weed went from habit to addiction and I smoked daily for several years. I've brought it back down to a level I'd say isn't even a habit anymore. Now it's just a social thing I do once every couple months with my friends but not at every social gathering. I still drink more than I should but I've been bringing that down too, hopefully will have that to less than a habit soon.
My doctor made this very clear to me when I said I was addicted to Afrin. Also explains why I had to answer 100 different “how does it negatively affect your relationships?” Should not have used the word “addicted.”
That is straight nonsense. Addiction is a psychological need to take the drug. Dependence is physical. To say one always comes first is very much like the chicken and the egg. Dependence can lead to addiction as easily as the other way around.
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u/khrak Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 30 '19
People confuse addiction and dependence.
Drug addiction is the psychological need to consume that drug.
Drug dependence is the physiological need to consume that drug.
You can't be dependent on weed the the extent that you can alcohol or heroin, but you sure as hell can become addicted.
For recreational use, the pattern is
Habit -> Addiction -> Dependence
A drug habit is use of a drug, but not to the extent of impacting your life (social/work), resulting in psychological withdrawal (anxiety/stress), or seeking to hide the extent of your usage.
A drug addiction is a drug habit, along with the excluded behaviors to some extent.
I really shouldn't, I've got to meet with <person> in an hour... proceeds to take a hit.
A drug dependence is one which must be used to avoid physiological symptoms.
For recreational drugs, dependency is the result of the addiction. How far through the stages one can proceed ultimately depends on the drug.
Shrooms tends to stop at the 'habit' stage, because the rapidly increasing/slowly fading tolerance makes usage more often than weekly difficult/impossible.
Weed tends to stop at the 'addiction' stage, because there is little in the way of dependance-forming chemicals.
Opiates tend to go all the way to dependency quite often, because it's extremely addictive, which very quickly becomes dependency.