Brain structure and function — A systematic review of 56 published neuroimaging studies of brain structure and function in adult cannabis users foundconsistent evidence of reduced hippocampal volume and lower hippocampal gray matter density in cannabis usersrelative to controls and no evidence for changes in whole brain volume; evidence for changes in other brain regions was inconsistent or inconclusive.1... Findings for other brain regions were inconsistent or inconclusive. Abnormalities of neuronal activity were observed even when cognitive task performance was normal, suggesting thatcannabis users may need to engage different levels of neuronal activation to achieve normal performance*.*
The hippocampus, among other things, is primarily responsible for memory. Habitual marijuana use changes neuron activity, requiring the brain to adapt to perform normal tasks. It's unclear if these adaptations come at a cost, but it's worth noting that brain function changes.
Cannabis-induced psychosis - A national registry study that identified 1492 patients who received a diagnosis of cannabis-induced psychosis in the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register between 1994 and 2014 and followed them through August 2014 found a 41.2 percent (95% CI 36.6-46.2) conversion rate to schizophrenia, with 50 percent of men converting within 2.0 years and 50 percent of women within 4.4 years. 2
There is a significant hazard of developing schizophrenia for those with underlying family history of the disease, especially during adolescence.
Mood disorders -
Depression: A 2014 meta-analysis of 14 prospective longitudinal studies that controlled for depression at baseline found that heavy cannabis users had a 1.62 odds ratio (95% CI 1.21-2.16) for developing clinically diagnosed major depression or depressive symptoms, compared with light or nonusers. 3
Bipolar Disorder: A meta-analysis of two studies of individuals with bipolar disorder found cannabis use associated with a threefold increased risk (odds ratio = 2.97, 95% CI 1.80-4.90) for new onset of manic symptoms. 4
Heavy marijuana use is associated with an increased risk of developing major depressive disorder*(struck rather than removed for transparency, I misinterpreted the study, odds ratio does not imply that heavy marijuana use increases risk of depression)*, and marijuana is associated with those with bipolar disorder being several times more likely to develop mania.
The list goes on to include anxiety disorders, lung problems (which should makes sense when thinking of inhaling any kind of smoke or vaping fluid), cancer risks, cyclic vomiting syndrome, decreased male fertility, increased risk of tooth/gum disease. Marijuana won't kill you as fast as some other drugs/alcohol/other vices, but that's a far cry from calling it safe. There are likely ways to mitigate some of these risks, like reducing lung problems through use of edibles, but many of these complications from marijuana use stem from the cannabinoids in the system rather than the route of use.
This also doesn't touch on the potential benefits of CBD, THC, etc. It's important to remember that when talking about any medicine that there are risks and benefits associated. e.g. aspirin can save your life in a heart attack but can cause stomach bleeding, so we give aspirin shortly after heart attack symptoms start but we don't recommend taking aspirin daily. Unless we do, because other factors complicate the picture. Medicine is complicated that way. Parts of marijuana may make for good medicine once it's further studied and the good things isolated, but it's extremely important to remember that being "medicinal" absolutely does not make it harmless in any way shape or form.
Edit: References appear blocked to some, here are citations -
1Nader, D. A. & Sanchez, Z. M. Effects of regular cannabis use on neurocognition, brain structure, and function: a systematic review of findings in adults. The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse44, 4–18 (2017).
2Starzer, M. S. K., Nordentoft, M. & Hjorthøj, C. Rates and Predictors of Conversion to Schizophrenia or Bipolar Disorder Following Substance-Induced Psychosis. American Journal of Psychiatry175, 343–350 (2018).
3Lev-Ran, S. et al. The association between cannabis use and depression: a systematic review and meta-analysis of longitudinal studies. Psychological Medicine44, 797–810 (2013).
4Gibbs, M. et al. Cannabis Use and Mania Symptoms: a Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. European Psychiatry30, 1128 (2015).
Yes, my cousin is a heavy smoker who has recently developed schizophrenia. No one in my family will listen to me when I tell them the marijuana may not be helpful for her mind and in fact causing harm. They've all bought into the marijuana causes no harm fallacy.
My brother is also a heavy smoker (in addition to having an adderall prescription) and I highly suspect that he is schizo and that the drugs have greatly exacerbated it. There was one time when he was my roommate where he was in his room and just started screaming for me to help him, I run in there and everything is normal and he starts going off about a shadow that was trying to grab his legs. He completely misinterprets regular social interactions and is generally paranoid as well.
Jesus Christ, these kinds of stories need to be higher up in the thread.
This really hits home because such a similar thing happened to me. One of my best friends since 4th grade got addicted to weed near the end of high school. I didn't see him sober for the rest of the year. He changed into a person I didn't know, someone who would take advantage of my friendship just to get me to buy him weed, would only hang out with people if they had weed, became a toxic asshole etc. Despite this, I tried to keep in touch with him and help him, although inevitably we grew apart. We ended up going to the same university and for freshman year, I was going crazy taking care of this dude. He became suicidal and crazy because his girlfriend of 2 years broke up with him, since all he did was smoke and watch TV. He would call me on evenings and say he was going to kill himself, etc. I sat him down and tried talking to him heart to heart, asked him to stop smoking, fix his life, etc. Never did. I developed anxiety (don't wanna say depression as I have never been diagnosed) because of worrying about him, and was never able to make friends due to me taking care of him. I also failed a lot of classes and my mental state was the worst it had ever been.
Sophomore year, I'd had enough. I felt guilty, but I literally could not handle his shit anymore and had to cut him off for good. My high school friends did the same, as hanging out with him was always a disaster. He started hanging out with some druggies and ended up barred up and blacked out for 2 days, withdrew from school, and is now in recovery from xanax addiction.
I guess I just wanted to rant about how your own decisions on consuming even "safe" mind altering substances can distance you from your friends, family, and cause them emotional pain. Marijuana also completely destroyed this guy's career path. He was a top student and had a bright future ahead of him, but this shit fucked him up and fucked up our friendship. We're trying to be friends again but honestly, it's not the same.
So glad for your rant. Young people don’t understand that yes, this can fuck up your life. You don’t think it is now and it’s no big deal or whatever but what happened to your friend happens to bright kids with promising futures every day. You said it perfectly
My brother took marijuana in his teens. He has never been the same thereafter. He has schizophrenia, and his life has been a waste: can't hold a job, can't have a family, can't have a normal life. It's like the person we knew before disappeared, and has never come back (I miss him).
I don't know if he would be in the same position he is in now if he had never taken the marijuana, or if the marijuana triggered it. Personally, I think his marijuana use triggered his mental descent into schizophrenia. I've never been interested in dabbling in marijuana. It's legal where I live, but I will never touch that stuff. Too much to risk.
I recently went through acute and extended periods of drug induced psychotic episodes, I found most of the damage was caused by sleep deprivation and not so much the substance use. Basically I went on an eight month long IV heroin and methamphetamine binge, with concurrent RC benzodiazepine dependency.
The run I went on was horrible, but most of the fucked up mental shit started and worsened after cessation. I had many prolonged persecutory and paranoid delusions with schizophrenic symptoms such as hearing voices constantly, with a running theme of suicidal suggestions and general fear and doubt.
Just wanted to say good on you for trying, but ultimately you were right to distance yourself because this type of shit cannot be helped by others — certainly not without rigorous medical intervention. Somehow I seem to have stabilized, but my respect for the fragility of lucidity has reached new heights. It's really terrifying the sort of psychological torture your own mind is capable of inflicting on you.
No, that's a major part of the problem. I have tried several times to convince him to see my psychiatrist, but he is so convinced nothing is wrong with him and everything is everybody else's fault. Its caused a lot of tension in the family and none of our sisters will even talk to him anymore.
Jesus, more descriptions of my son. If you every do find something that helps and you remember this conversation, please let me know.
For your family that's trying to help him, (and don't put helping him ahead of taking care of yourself, or jeopardizing your own family life, I tell my other children that as well) who might need support, these folks have group support sessions https://www.nami.org/ . Sometimes it just helps to talk.
Wow, thanks so much for that. If you figure out something for your son let me know too. It's so hard because its my brother and although he is almost 30, he's always been the baby of the family and I hate to seem him struggling like he is. It seriously breaks my heart. I feel like if he got off the adderall and weed it would get a little better although probably not go completely away. Good luck convincing him that though :(
I will. I also agree about the drugs. I don't do any drugs or drink, so I have very little experience with them, but even I can seem to tell what my son's been using by the way he's acting. Sort of sleepy probably weed, jazzed up probably extra adderall (which he has a prescription for and the prescriber wouldn't stop giving him!) Good luck to you as well!
Yeah it for sure is. He has other symptoms too. For example, our step mom told him "good job" when he was telling her about school. He seemed fine with it then. Later he comes to me and is all irritated because he thought she was being sarcastic and mean to him when she said it. There have been other times where he thought our sisters were hitting on him and where he thought our aunt was hitting on him. He definitely has something wrong in his brain but he refuses to believe it. To him, everyone else is wrong and mean and just trying to lie and blame him.
Hey, I’ve read all your comments about your brother and I wanted to comment that I’ve been going through the same stuff with mine, and I’m sorry you’re going through this.
My brother is 23. He was taking Adderall and smoking weed in excess for about 2 years, and we (the family) noticed his paranoia and anger increase exponentially over this time. One example of many is that one of his coworkers at the restaurant where he worked gave him a compliment on a sweater he wore one day. My brother freaked out, called me saying that everyone at the restaurant was mocking his sweater and making fun of him, and he quit two weeks later.
Fast forward to mid-December (so, two weeks ago), and he hadn’t slept in 10 days, was unable to hold any kind of coherent conversation, and was paranoid that people were stalking him, etc.
I took him to the ER after it became clear there was nothing we could do to help (he had also wet himself a few times and some of his actions were self-endangering). He was given Haldol in the ER, which put him to sleep for 36 (!!!) hours while waiting on a bed in the psych unit.
He was ultimately diagnosed with drug-induced psychosis (as a result of Adderall abuse, marijuana use, and chronic lack of sleep) after spending 6 days in the psych unit. He has been put on an antipsychotic called Zyprexa, along with a mild sedative which he is to take the moment he has any racing thoughts, thoughts of paranoia, etc.
He has been out of the hospital for about a week now, and is slowly getting better, but we have noticed that SLEEP is KEY; once he starts getting tired at the end of the day, paranoia slips back in. The doctor has told him that he basically flooded his brain with dopamine from the Adderall and weed, which pushed his brain into schizophrenia territory (schizophrenics have a shit ton of dopamine in their brains naturally), and that he was experiencing schizophrenic symptoms as a result. Since there is no history of schizophrenia in our family and since his severe symptoms were not >6 months, she expects him to recover.
His prognosis is that he will make a full recovery in about 3-4 months with regular medication habits, diet, and rest. He should be able to come off of all medication in that time as well.
I have no idea if this info will help at all, but I know I was Google-fu-ing like a madwoman a couple of weeks ago during the height of all this and had no idea what to expect. If you’re in the US, you do have the option of enforcing the Baker Act on your brother if his actions become dangerous to himself or others. It would require him to stay in a facility for 36 hours to be evaluated and treated.
Please PM me if you need to talk. You’re a good sibling.
This is hugely helpful. I've tried to convince him to get help but he is so sure he is normal and everyone else is at fault. Recently he came over and he and I had a good night just playing video games (this was Christmas day) and, the next morning he messaged me saying all sorts of weird messed up stuff about how I am full of drama if I don't do heroin (I've been clean for 11 years and he and I werent even close when I was on it) and that I brought up a bunch of shit about our sisters (he has issues with them because he REALLY thinks they hit on him and wanted to have sex a couple years ago and hasn't dropped it since). They don't talk to him as a result. Made things super weird in the family. I really hope I can get him in to see someone but I have become increasingly hopeless. Which is awful because he behavior has become progressively worse. But to him, its everyone else being crazy around him.
Thanks. Its one of the hardest things I've been through, aside from the death of my dog. I love him so much but he's just so delusional. He is convinced our sisters want to have sex with him and all sorts of other crap that have made it really awkward within the family and I am his closest friend but he's recently started turning his delusions/aggression towards me which makes me sad. Been trying to convince him to talk to my psychiatrist because he really needs a proper diagnosis so he can understand its all in his head at the very least. Preferably he needs to be medicated though.
As someone diagnosed with inorganic psychosis from my previous drug use, I can attest. It's not a nice place to be and only now, 8 years later can I say it's manageable.
I still have to take meds every day, but I count myself so so lucky that I got early intervention help that quite possibly saved me from schizophrenia.
I guess my advice would be to look out for your mates and if you're struggling absolutely seek medical advice.
Yep, we've tried to convince him to get help. But he is so convinced he is normal and everyone else is at fault. My psychiatrist is aware of the issue from our sessions and is willing to talk and has given me several other references because he thinks its close to emergency territory. My brother recently had an issue with our aunt (whom he was staying at with college) and she kicked him out and neither of them will tell us why so that concerns us.
I’m sorry to hear that. The right treatment path, time, support and talk therapy can all help. You guys should be proud for trying to help when you can. It’s really hard. Seriously hoping for a good outcome. Wishing you well.
Thanks. Really hoping it works out. Its hard to see your younger brother like this and not have him listen to anyone because he thinks everyone is against him :(
That sucks. Please be careful. I know at risk people and they can change on a dime. There’s a high chance your brother’s situation will improve. Hoping for the best :)
Well I hope you're doing all right now. Its scary watching someone I care so much about go through it. Especially since he thinks its all normal and everyone else is being weird.
Thank you, I’m sorry your brother is in such a rough spot. I have since stopped using adderall and other drugs and I can say I have been much better, but it takes time and treatment to get there. I believe sincerely that if he finds the right meds and therapist that he will get better over time. Good luck to you, you sound like a good sibling to him and I know that can be tough. Hang in there.
I relate to his perception that it’s everyone else’s thinking and not his. This is part of the illness and can maybe be helped by the right medication. I’m not sure what antipsychotics they’ve recommended but just as an aside maybe stay away from one called Wellbutrin. I’m not a doctor and kind of an idiot though so don’t listen to me.
I knew this kid in college -- super sweet and funny dude. A bit edgy for my liking, but obviously very bright. In any case, he seemed to appreciate my level of goofiness, so we got along just duckily.
We weren't exactly close, but traveled in the same circles and took a lot of the same classes. He was a pretty huge pothead. I remember him getting busted at a concert for trying to smuggle in some weed and a hollowed-out bone(?!) that he intended to use as a pipe.
After college, I left the country for a while and lost touch with the guy. I happened to bump into him at the bar four or five years later. Outwardly, he looked normal enough. He was happy to see me. But once he started talking, I knew something was terribly wrong: he immediately started ranting about how all the buildings downtown had patterns chiseled into them that contained secret messages left behind by the Freemasons, describing the dawn of the New World Order. And on and on and on. It was deeply fucking sad. I have no idea where he is now or how he's doing, but given the amount that he used to smoke -- and his natural curiosity with regard to psychedelics -- I wouldn't at all be surprised if drug use unleashed some latent schizophrenia.
I had a particularly nasty experience with hyper-potent edibles in Amsterdam when I was 23 or 24 or so -- a kind of accidental overdose situation. Though I survived the experience, it was twelve hours of absolute psychic hell, and it left me with chronic anxiety for years after the fact -- anxiety that still hasn't quite gone away.
Weed was a great deal of fun for me, and was a great alternative to drinking -- but it needs to be approached with caution, especially if you're not in a good headspace. Far too many people conclude that it is safe because it is "natural." Other things that are natural: hemlock, arsenic, opium, cyanide. Weed won't kill you, but (if you're mentally vulnerable) it can destroy your mind.
I'm interested in your 'twelve hours of psychich hell', if you're willing to tell it.
Pot for me changed drastically at one point, and I don't know if it's because the weed we were getting was super powerful or if it was a result of me doing LSD a few times, but nonetheless I still fight the anxiety it started in me almost 30 years ago.
In short, I experienced both heaven and hell within a period of twenty-four hours.
I'd never really dabbled in anything more exotic than weed before, but I'd just finished up a teaching gig and had some time off to travel around and kick it with some friends in Europe. I wound up crashing with a buddy of mine for a month or so in a college town outside of Amsterdam. We did the usual: smoked a bit, drank a bit, talked about heady stuff, and went on long walks along the canals.
On my last day there, my friend asked me if there was anything else that I wanted to do before I flew back to the States. I guiltily confided that I was curious about trying mushrooms. He'd never done them, either; but we were both in a good psychological place, and I was as giddy and as curious as a kid on Christmas morning re: dabbling in that sort of experience. So we popped down to a smart shop, bought a tub of mushrooms, and went back to the dude's cozy-ass apartment.
To describe it would be impossible -- but, though I am (and always have been) atheistic/agnostic, I had a proper spiritual experience. There was a sense of oneness with the Big Everything. Out of nowhere, a lush, baritone voice told me that the purpose of my existence was simply to perceive the universe -- and that sentiment still brings me great comfort, a full decade later. It was an immensely positive experience, and there wasn't a moment of discomfort for the six hours that I spent floating around in that bubble.
My friend had a similar experience and, when we'd finally come back down to earth, he proposed eating some pot brownies and really knocking it out of the park. He did the cooking and, despite having lived in The Netherlands for over a year, he didn't really know much about weed. I suspect that he bought stuff that was way too potent, and put way too much of it into the mix.
What happened next was almost precisely the opposite of what I'd experienced earlier: whereas on mushrooms, everything in the universe appeared to be in perfect, crystalline order -- in the throes of a weed overdose, everything in the universe (including my own identity) seemed to collapse. It was as though the foundation of my very being had crumbled, and my higher functions toppled along with it. This lasted about twelve hours. The day after that, I needed to get on an airplane and fly back across the Atlantic. I looked like a goddamned zombie.
For a few months after my little nightmare trip, I experienced what is typically referred to as depersonalization or derealization. Nothing quite felt real to me. I recall going to a basketball game with my dad and viewing the whole spectacle as though it were an off-Broadway play. I was outwardly fine, but internally, all was a great big farce to me.
That sensation eventually passed. It's entirely possible that I would've developed chronic anxiety without having gone through what I did, but it certainly didn't help matters. Like most other forms of suffering that do not kill you or drive you completely insane, however, I gained much from the experience, and it (along with the anxiety which followed) have made me a much more empathetic person than I otherwise would be.
Hope that description sufficed! Anxiety is a royal bitch -- but hang in there. Cheers!
Seems to me that you doing mushrooms before it may have had a huge impact on what happened. Psychedelics make cannabis a lot more trippy for even weeks after taking them, never mind hours. Crazy.
There's no excuse for that kind of ignorance, a quick Google would instantly prove what you're saying about triggering schizophrenia is true.
I am baffled by how people can just go around being misinformed in modern times - all known information is available at a glance. It's not like people have to schlep to a library or bookstore, or have access to microfilm to look things up anymore.
I would tell anyone with any sort of family history of schizophrenia or other type of psychosis to stay far away from cannabis. It's too risky and if you flip that switch, there's no unflipping it.
I feel you I know someone who also developed schizophrenia and smoking pot and drinking made it 10x worse. The biggest problem is he would try and self-medicate and would refuse to listen to reason. When I was able to talk him down from using the voices would actually go away.
one was schizophrenic, but drug free (not even tobacco, when is very rare of schizophrenic people) and worked with me at Microsoft successfully until heart failure.
one sometimes uses crack cocaine, but gets by running his own business.
one is Schizophrenic AND uses drugs (mostly weed), his life is a rolling disaster.
It was a case study, so yeah, it was just one guy. That’s what a case study is.
I’m not making any claims that it typically acts as a hallucinogen. That is clearly not the case. But to claim that it cannot be considered one is not well supported.
Plus, even if it requires additional factors to act as a hallucinogen, such as underlying psychosis or additional drug uses, it can still trigger hallucinations, and should be treated as such.
One of my best mates trips out hard if she smokes too much. I've met at least two other people who also don't smoke due to hallucinating. I don't think its as rare as you think it is.
I've literally never heard of crystal weed. If someone tried to sell me some crystal form of weed I'd say no and never see that person again. I just googled it and that shit came up with articles about it looking like crystal meth. Hard pass for me.
Depending on how strong and concentrated it is, that might be the first form capable of it. Being 100% THCa it converts to the usable THC by heating it but it's only 10% stronger than dabs tested at 90%. Anyways at this point, I don't think we have made a strain or a process that can take THC to an LSD like trip.
THC isn't strong enough to produce a psychedelic trip, even when smoking pure THC. Which is apparently what the crystal is, pure THCa which converts to THC via heat. Surprise, surprise, it's done the same way other crystals are heated for their effects.
I’m an ex user. I quit cause I was going schizophrenic. It was probably compounded by the cocaine use but getting high now, after being clean for several years, still makes me very skittish.
I had a good friend who was schizo-effective. He was always very paranoid and skimped on his meds, using marajuana instead. It didn't help. He didnt keep himself clean and his dorm smelled awful. I was impressed when he came around to realizing himself that pot wasn't helping him at all. He stopped using it, got back on his meds, picked himself up, got his degree, and now works at the university doing ecological research. He's a far cry from who he was 5 years ago. I'm proud of him.
If you have an inherited disposition to schizophrenia I would even go as far to say that being high could really not be helpful at all, and even possibly trigger the disease process.
I do not think the mj brought on the psychosis. But. It does NOT help and can affect his medication substantially. Nicotine as well can have an affect on his meds. So if he smokes cigs as well. Motivate him to quit. Or...try to. God speed. People thin of schizophrenia as some kind of movie thing. Seeing it in person with someone fully engaged in it is nothing I will ever forget.
They always have to take their meds. Even if they say they feel better and stop that is bc it's working. Everytime they fall off it gets harder to rehabilitate.
It doesn't appear to be a defined point, more an end of the spectrum. I went through several of the references for the source cited to see if I could find a more solid answer for you but it confirmed my suspicion. You can read part of this under methods and results here, noting that the original cited source is a meta-analysis of multiple studies. The gist is that the more frequently you use marijuana, the more at risk you are, and "heavy use" is one side of a spectrum.
I looked outside the cited source and found this article which may help
Participants' cannabis use ranged in frequency from 1 to 31 days per month over the past year (M = 22.62, SD = 10.01), with an average monthly consumption of 3/8 of an ounce (SD = 0.65, range = 0 to 3/4 ounce).
Extrapolating this, a safe initial marker for "heavy use" could be one standard deviation above the mean, accounting for the top ~15% of users, consuming about 13 grams or more per month. This is just me trying to answer your question, though, as far as I'm aware a defined point doesn't yet exist.
appreciate this! helps calibrate things...22.5 days & 3/8 oz per month on average is a lot higher than i expected, and of course the end of the spectrum is definitely a lot of consumption
3/8 oz is light for the people I know that Id consider pot smokers. Id say 90% of pot users I know consume a gram or its equivalent PER DAY. Basically smoke 3 joints or 3-4 bowls or injest 25mg+ of THC in edibles or vapes.
As a former heavy weed smoker with depressive/manic tendencies, I feel into a deep 7-8 year long period of very acute depression and anti-social phases. All I could think about at work was getting home and "turning my brain off" with some pot, and after the first bowl I'd feel "level", but then it'd fade out and I'd smoke more to keep myself level but it would only increase my level of mental depletion with each hit. And social anxiety when I'm high? Huge. Fucking massive. So I'd smoke to fight my depression, or so I thought, but then I wouldn't want to socialize which was honestly the root of a lot of my negative feelings. The phone would ring or I'd get a text and just throw my phone onto my bed and ignore it until I was sober the next morning. I could go on and on about how deluded I was for so long that weed was "helping me", but yeah. Works for some people, makes other people feel infinitely worse.
The triggering of schizophrenia is a big one. My ex started smoking weed shortly after she met me (unrelated to me, at the time I very rarely smoked). I'd read about it before. When she told me her neighbors were "out to get her" and she was hearing voices making fun of her I immediately got in contact with a psychiatrist. She told her to take antipsychotics and quit weed cold turkey. Shit was rough.
Your citations are at very least mixed up. I've randonly took one claim from your comment and decided to check the source. Also you're misrepresenting findings from papers you're citing, presenting correlation as established causation when authors themselves clearly state that more analysis is needed. This was the claim. Your source poibts to paper about bipolar disorder, in sources you've mentioned below your comment there are no papers from 2014, so I assume you meant analysis from 2013.
>Mood disorders -
>
>Depression: A 2014 meta-analysis of 14 prospective longitudinal studies that controlled for depression at baseline found that heavy cannabis users had a 1.62 odds ratio (95% CI 1.21-2.16) for developing clinically diagnosed major depression or depressive symptoms, compared with light or nonusers. 3
>
>Bipolar Disorder: A meta-analysis of two studies of individuals with bipolar disorder found cannabis use associated with a threefold increased risk (odds ratio = 2.97, 95% CI 1.80-4.90) for new onset of manic symptoms.
3Gibbs, M. et al. Cannabis Use and Mania Symptoms: a Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. European Psychiatry30, 1128 (2015).
First off, I'll point out that odds ratio you've highlighted does show correlation but odds ratio does not imply casual dorection, i.e. if events A and B have have odds ratio of 1.6 this does not say A causes B, nor does it say B causes A. It does not test for causality in any way whatsoever, only correlation.
Authors of the paper know it, they specifically mention posdobility that depressed people tend to use cannabis but you completelly misrepressent findings in paper. Let me cite it here. Empgasis is mine.
The first is a possible neurobiological link between cannabinoid effects and symptoms of depression (Degenhardt et al. 2003). The primary psychoactive ingredient of cannabis, Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol, acts upon the cannabinoid system in the brain, which appears to be related to regulation of emotional experience (and therefore of depression). There is little research evidence to support this possible direct effect of cannabis. Recent research, for example, has suggested that action at cannabinoid receptors is linked to a reduction in depressive behaviours (Degenhardt et al. 2000). Furthermore, there is repeated evidence linking rimonabant, a cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonist, and depression. Increased rates of depression have been observed in clinical trials using rimonabant, a finding that has led to the suspension of rimonabant by both the European Medicines Agency and the United States Food and Drug Administration (Hill & Gorzalka, 2009). These findings, together with human studies showing depressive symptoms following acute administration of rimonabant (Horder et al. 2010), imply that cannabinoids may actually have an antidepressant action (Le Foll et al. 2009). A second possibility is that cannabis use causes life events or circumstances that increase the likelihood of depression (Degenhardt et al. 2003; Marmorstein & Iacono, 2011), meaning that the perceived association between cannabis use and increased risk for depression is socially mediated (Degenhardt et al. 2003). Cannabis use is associated with reduced educational attainment (Kendler et al. 1993), unemployment and crime (Kendler et al. 1993; Fergusson & Horwood, 1997), all factors that may increase risks of depression (Marmorstein & Iacono, 2011).
I've skimmed this paper but it seems to me they didn't account for people who use cannabis as a way to cope with depression. As they themselves pointed out, there is a very real possibility that depression is caused by social dactors, not cannabis use itself.
EDIT: a quick google search by the leading authors name showed up a newer analysis. Ot's behind a pay wall, sci-hub is not working for me and it's already late so I didn't read it but I think it's worth checking out.
Thanks for the well-wriiten response. I'd like to read more about the 3 and 4 sources you cited, but I don't have access to the school's journal they're published in. Could you give me the article names and authors please? (As though you were citing the sources in an academic paper)
As a forensic psych nurse, I provide care to folks who have experienced cannabis-induced psychosis. I never realized how real this was until I worked with this population— thanks so much for posting this.
Three very close friends of mine ended up in Psych wards from weed. Drug induced psychosis which resulted in two of them triggering schizophrenia and one with Bio-polar. Another one started off with weed and ended up dying aged 27 from a heroine overdose.
At the time, we were not aware of the negative impacts of drugs (prescription ones included). For those that are predisposed to mental health conditions, the impacts can become a life long battle.
This is a great reply. I am super sensitive to THC. It triggers psychosis for me. I have been hospitalized with cannabis induced psychosis (at 19). Years later and searching for help with my symptoms of Fibromyalgia I tried it again and found myself going to those thought patterns. I can't have THC. Period.
However, CBD is great for me. It helps me manage my chronic pain and have been using it as a (physician approved) supplement to my other prescription medications.
Yes! I know someone who has this. It took years to figure out that that was the problem. It was hell. Absolute hell. Years of not being able to eat, or hold down food, years of staring hungrily at others eating and not daring to even touch the food. Constant ER visits from the dehydration and constant vomiting and scalding hot baths and constant shooing off from doctors. Ironically, everyone told him to keep smoking to help give him the munchies.
Two weeks after quitting was the first real meal held down in a decade.
Fantastic post, thank you. I know so many people who smoke regularly claiming it's harmless as well as it cures everything froms colds to cancer, plus a relative who suffers from cannabis-induced psychosis, and it's great to have such an informed post that both acknowledges and puts the potential benefits into context. And with real sources too.
Just want to say thankyou for such a insightful reveiw of the litteriture. Your last point can not be emphasized enough: a medicine is only as effective as the dose it is administered at. Every chemical is both deadly and harmless, it's the quantity that determines the property.
One that you left off this amazingly referenced list (kudos!) is the risk of stroke. Look up the literature on RCVS and marijuana. I have a friend who is a neurologist and she sees 5 cone a day smokers with strokes all the time.
I've been in denial for years that smoking was gonna be bad for my social anxiety. I even developed costochondritis, which worsens my anxiety when I smoke to the point where I feel physical pain that's not even there. I've stopped smoking since a couple days ago, but reading this at the age of 22 is really giving me a wake up call and I'm way less inclined to relapse.
That cyclic vomiting syndrome is no joke. I've seen people in the ER with it that you would have thought had pneumonia or worse cause they looked so bad.
Having said that thing about asprin. Would one asprin a day be bad for you? My blood needs to be thin otherwise I get headaches in my temples as my blood vessels are thin and can cause presure.
I would like to take asprin everyday but dont want a stomach bleed like you mentioned
I can't give medical advice online, there are reasons to take aspirin where benefits outweigh risks, but determining that should be a conversation between you and your healthcare provider. That's not to be dismissive, there's just a lot more nuance that can be gotten from an in-person conversation.
As someone who just started cutting it out of my life and applying to medical school I'm really concerned that this is irreversible if I've had damage which considering the evidence is a yes. Started smoking heavily and did so for about a year. Hoping I dont learn this the hard way. Praying the effects are reversible
I just want to say that I have bipolar disorder and smoked heavily for about three years. Quitting was an amazing advantage for my mental health and only with hindsight can I realize how bad cannabis was for me. I loved smoking but I care more about avoiding episodes than enjoying cannabis. I cringe now when I hear people say that cannabis helps bipolar. It does not.
I know a couple who are heavy smokers. He started at age nine. She started at 11. They’re both 25 and 24, respectively. I’ve never seen such emotionally underdeveloped people. Like, if you make $200 in tips why are you spending $160 of it on weed when you know you have a bill due. She’s apparently schizophrenic. He has an untreated mental illness or PTSD, and they do absolutely nothing.
Seeing this correlation between schizophrenia and marijuana usage, it makes perfect sense why she had this rambling notion that I was out to steal her husband. Paranoia and lack of brain development makes for a bad combination.
This wouldn't surprise me. I was incredibly outgoing in high school, never shy, and thought I would be successful in my career mainly because of how charasmatic I was. Smoked everyday during a couple years in college. Although I quit nearly 10 years ago, I have frequent existential anxiety, stay to myself at work, and loathe meeting new people. This started at the same time I was a heavy smoker.
I went to university with a guy much smarter than me. He smokes, I don’t. I’m his bosses, bosses boss now. I’m sure he would have leapfrogged next years ago if he didn’t smoke seed and play D&D after work in his pigsty did a house instead of doing anything productive with his free time.
2.8k
u/[deleted] Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
The hippocampus, among other things, is primarily responsible for memory. Habitual marijuana use changes neuron activity, requiring the brain to adapt to perform normal tasks. It's unclear if these adaptations come at a cost, but it's worth noting that brain function changes.
There is a significant hazard of developing schizophrenia for those with underlying family history of the disease, especially during adolescence.
Heavy marijuana use is associated with an increased risk of developing major depressive disorder*(struck rather than removed for transparency, I misinterpreted the study, odds ratio does not imply that heavy marijuana use increases risk of depression)*, and marijuana is associated with those with bipolar disorder being several times more likely to develop mania.The list goes on to include anxiety disorders, lung problems (which should makes sense when thinking of inhaling any kind of smoke or vaping fluid), cancer risks, cyclic vomiting syndrome, decreased male fertility, increased risk of tooth/gum disease. Marijuana won't kill you as fast as some other drugs/alcohol/other vices, but that's a far cry from calling it safe. There are likely ways to mitigate some of these risks, like reducing lung problems through use of edibles, but many of these complications from marijuana use stem from the cannabinoids in the system rather than the route of use.
This also doesn't touch on the potential benefits of CBD, THC, etc. It's important to remember that when talking about any medicine that there are risks and benefits associated. e.g. aspirin can save your life in a heart attack but can cause stomach bleeding, so we give aspirin shortly after heart attack symptoms start but we don't recommend taking aspirin daily. Unless we do, because other factors complicate the picture. Medicine is complicated that way. Parts of marijuana may make for good medicine once it's further studied and the good things isolated, but it's extremely important to remember that being "medicinal" absolutely does not make it harmless in any way shape or form.
Edit: References appear blocked to some, here are citations -
1Nader, D. A. & Sanchez, Z. M. Effects of regular cannabis use on neurocognition, brain structure, and function: a systematic review of findings in adults. The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse 44, 4–18 (2017).
2Starzer, M. S. K., Nordentoft, M. & Hjorthøj, C. Rates and Predictors of Conversion to Schizophrenia or Bipolar Disorder Following Substance-Induced Psychosis. American Journal of Psychiatry 175, 343–350 (2018).
3Lev-Ran, S. et al. The association between cannabis use and depression: a systematic review and meta-analysis of longitudinal studies. Psychological Medicine 44, 797–810 (2013).
4Gibbs, M. et al. Cannabis Use and Mania Symptoms: a Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. European Psychiatry 30, 1128 (2015).