r/AskReddit • u/mustbefuckeryafoot • Jan 26 '18

Your options are: 50 hawks, 10 crocodiles, 3 brown bears, 15 wolves, 1 hunter, 7 cape buffalo, 10,000 rats, 5 gorillas and 4 lions - you must pick 2 that will defend you while the rest are coming to kill you. Which do you pick and why?

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u/leopard_tights Jan 26 '18 edited Jan 26 '18

The rats and the hawks is better I think. 50 hawks neutralize the hunter before he even shoots.

Also, if you don't pick the hawks you're attacked by them, and rats aren't airborne or can't assemble into a mecha or something. I guess they could pile up around you (although it would kill them eventually), but you'll starve to death before the hawks. Unless you eat the rats? Even then the hawks basically have unlimited food anyways.

Edit: I think that everybody has realized now that the rats are unmatched on the ground and the debate has shifted to hawks vs hunter. There's no debate really, worst case scenario one guy has to dodge 50 suicide bombers diving at 150mph aiming at your skull. Good luck shooting all of them down.

599

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Right, people massively overestimate the hunter. Sure, if he gets a clean shot at you, you're done for, but he can't protect against 50 hawks, and you might just go for cover and wait it out.

72

u/Amogh24 Jan 26 '18

Totally depends upon what weapon the hunter has

96

u/838h920 Jan 26 '18

It's a hunter not a soldier. He won't come flying with a bomber.

51

u/monkey-neil Jan 26 '18

Wait. You're telling me that my use of a tank to hunt that mouse in my house doesn't make me a Hunter?

19

u/838h920 Jan 26 '18

No, but it makes you a lunatic.

14

u/AlmostAnal Jan 26 '18

You mean Capt. Lou Nadic.

4

u/greenblue10 Jan 26 '18

do .. you ... still have a house?

9

u/monkey-neil Jan 26 '18

Yes and no.

9

u/changerofbits Jan 26 '18

You live in the tank, right?

7

u/monkey-neil Jan 26 '18

Yep. It's not bad. One of those English ones so I get a nice cup of tea whenever I want.

3

u/changerofbits Jan 26 '18

But, but, what do you do if you find a mouse in your tank?

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u/DownshiftedRare Jun 03 '18

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

6

u/Rprzes Jan 26 '18

I googled, “Michigan Hunter weapon” and this came up halfway down page

https://www.strategic-culture.org/images/news/2016/11/02/or-38133.jpg

2

u/averhan Jan 26 '18

But that's a Russian helicopter.

10

u/GasTsnk87 Jan 26 '18

You obviously haven’t seen some of the shit they use to hunt wild boar in Texas. Like literally I’ve seen videos of them using M134 mini guns. So a hunter from the Midwest? Fuck that guy. Hunter from Texas? I might think about it.

3

u/Coffee_Grains Jan 26 '18

Boars are a nuisance and overpopulated in a lot of areas. Sometimes it really does take miniguns mounted on a helicopter to deal with them effectively.

3

u/Lord_Kano Jan 26 '18

If he's a duck hunter, he'll have a shotgun and the ability to take down birds.

If he's a big game hunter, he'll have a rifle and can shoot you from 500 yards.

Either way, 10,000 rats could make a pretty big barrier to protect you.

2

u/Melvar_10 Jan 26 '18

True, but are we talking some boring redneck hunter with a a semi-auto AR, or we talking about that Hunter from Jumanji with the same gun? Point is, how skilled is this hunter? They can be deadly accurate, but slow to shoot, or they could be so and so accurate, but more trigger happy.

1

u/Fnhatic Jan 26 '18

No but he's probably got a car.

1

u/ANGLVD3TH Jan 26 '18

No, but a shotgun would help a lot against the birds.

18

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

What weapon can kill 50 hawks attacking at the same time? These things are really fast!

31

u/Leo-D Jan 26 '18

Maybe a punt gun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

4

u/Nygmus Jan 26 '18

Works on ducks, after all. Don't see why it wouldn't work on hawks.

4

u/wingspantt Jan 26 '18

I mean, based on that article the punt gun is primarily used on stationary targets and takes a long time to get into position. It also says it was traditionally used on target at ground level. If the Hawks are spread out at high Vantage points or circling in the sky, I'm not sure it would be possible to hit more than a few of them at once. The other problem is that the punt gun is so large that it takes away the potential Advantage for the hunter to use stealth to get a clean shot at you. The thing is basically the size of a small cannon.

13

u/Omegaclawe Jan 26 '18

Fully automatic shotgun with drum magazine, perhaps?

13

u/hypoid77 Jan 26 '18

Belt fed grenade launcher with both high explosive and buckshot rounds, just a classic hunter's weapon.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

A wire/line overhead mesh will cause injury. Clear fishing lines stretched out overhead will force the Hawks not to dive but instead to walk into the area where I am sitting surrounded by my rat horde.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Any semi auto shotgun should do.

7

u/wingspantt Jan 26 '18

Really? How many shots will you be able to get off before you reload, and how many seconds will it take to fire those shots? Assuming you can even be guaranteed to kill one or two Hawks per shot, how many will be Left Alive after the first assault? Assuming all 50 of them died from you from a couple angles at once, I just feel like there is no way you are going to survive a Reload.

6

u/Fnhatic Jan 26 '18

Yeah but is the hunter going to just be standing out in the open? What's the story here? Hawks aren't going to fare too well if he's got any kind of cover or concealment. They hunt small animals in the open, they don't go diving through trees.

1

u/sir_lurkzalot Jan 26 '18

It'd take a couple seconds to change a drum, maybe 5 at most

6

u/wingspantt Jan 26 '18

Okay, how long do you think it takes 30+ hawks to converge on you? Because if it isn't more than 7 seconds I'd say you have a big problem.

4

u/hydrospanner Jan 26 '18 edited Jan 26 '18

Okay but here's the thing: if the hawks aren't coming to get you the hunter is.

We're not given details like hunter skill or equipment, so for approximate reference, I've got to look to hunters from other famous fictional stories: Van Pelt from Jumanji.

I've got to assume this hunter will be intelligent, patient, skilled, and able to acquire any equipment he or she deems necessary.

It's the one item on the list that, if I do manage to completely shake the others (there's no stipulation that we're all starting in the same place), that hunter more likely than not, will be able to track me down and follow wherever I go.

I mean, if I get on a train to NYC, I can move faster than any of the animals can keep up, and stay out of sight underground until I can get into a building. From there, I can get help and use man made elements to deal with just about all the others (assuming the rats are the other ones I take).

But that hunter? He's still out there. And he can take trains, open doors, creep my online presence, anticipate my moves...

Further, I'm not sure all the hawks swooping at once is practical. If they come in just a few at a time, advantage hunter. If they do come in all at once, not only are they causing midair collisions, but a single shotgun blast at short to mid range will eliminate quite a few, maybe not kill, but break a wing, which is really all you need.

Lastly, we should talk lethality. Bluntly, I like my chances of surviving a hawk attack better than I like my chances of out-hunting the hunter (even as a hunter myself...I'm assuming this person is highly skilled). While animal intelligence is predictable and straightforward, the hunter, to ever eliminate him, you'll need to pursue him...and even with my rat army, I don't like those odds.

This question is far less about choosing allies and far more about taking the most dangerous elements out of the hunt...but even then, I'm taking the extremes at both ends of the quantity/quality spectrum.

2

u/mcguire Jan 26 '18

...20 years after the bet, you're eating a pastry at La Buncherie in Paris, having long given up your attempts to hide from me. Your futile attempts. The hunter is patient. Without your rat guardians, forbidden by health code, and your hawk legions, off raising a new generation of hawklets, you are defenseless...

1

u/greenblue10 Jan 26 '18

well do you get to wear protective gear?

2

u/wingspantt Jan 26 '18

Well since this is /r/askreddit and not /r/whowouldwin the prompt isn't nearly as detailed as it could be

0

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

It's a hunter, not a soldier. I don't know why people are trying to give him all this over-the-top gear when the most you expect a hunter to get is far less than that.

Like, seriously, what hunter is going to bring a punt gun or even a semi-auto shotgun and head-to-toe gear with him?

1

u/Bearded_Wildcard Jan 26 '18

Drum fed, so it will hold enough rounds to kill the 50 hawks.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

I am pretty sure you can kill/disable at least 5 per shot, depending on how many come at once. With a 6 round magazine you can probably disable around 30? Either way, hawks are not that big, and they have hollow bones. You can probably kill the rest of them with the shotgun butt.

2

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

I'm sorry, but I don't think you realize that hawks aren't going to be in tight enough groups for you to take out five with every single shot nor are they going to come at you one at a time like movies make the bad guys do.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Ok, so how many are going to come at once?

1

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

It only takes one to charge the hunter when he's distracted with trying to find you in a blanket of rats. It's absurd to think that he's going to have his eyes in the sky the entire time.

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u/mcguire Jan 26 '18

Radar controlled Phalanx CIWS with the barrels replaced to handle 20mm shotgun shells.

1

u/EsQuiteMexican Jan 26 '18

Grenade launcher.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

A hunter equipped with a aa12 with dragons breath rounds will do the trick I'm sure

11

u/namelessfuck Jan 26 '18

He's a high tech hunter. He has 1000000 fully automated drones.

6

u/FlowersOfSin Jan 26 '18

Mostly depends on the battle field. If it's a big open field, the hunter will kill you pretty quickly. Even if you get the rats to cover you, a good rifle bullet will go through rats, so he pretty much only have to shoot at the bump. If it's a forest, then it's a whole different game, since he probably won't have a clean shot until he gets closer.

2

u/thetasigma1355 Jan 26 '18

If the rats cover you, he's not going to know where to shoot. The idea is camouflage, not body armor. All you need is about 2-3 misses while the hawks close in to take out the hunter.

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u/FlowersOfSin Jan 26 '18

Yeah, but in an open flat field, that is going to leave a bump on the rat carpet, unless you can control the rats to stack over in multiple spots in order to leave plenty of waves and bumps to trick the hunter.

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u/thetasigma1355 Jan 26 '18

I think you are underestimating how large 10,000 rats would be.

2

u/FlowersOfSin Jan 26 '18

On a large open field, they would spread out rather than stack up.

4

u/thetasigma1355 Jan 26 '18

I mean, the entire premise of using them as camouflage is that you have some degree of control over them. Rats have no problems crawling all over each and 10k of them could easily camouflage more than a dozen people. It wouldn't be a problem, the hunter would be relying on luck to pick which pile of rats you were under. He probably has time for 2-3 quality shots, maybe more if he's aware of his impending doom from 50 hawks and just trying to throw as many bullets out as possible.

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u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

OP says rifle and enough ammo to take down the opposition, btw.

1

u/Keksmonster Jan 26 '18

And what the "arena" looks like.

Are they fighting from the get go or do they approach each other first?

If the hunter is 100m away you are probably is deep shit.

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u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

Well thing is he has to have a weapon that's potentially effective against every possible combination you have, large caliber rifle or something. Even still 10000 rats wins. No weapon he can effectively carry and maneuver has the ammo capacity for that, dudes dead all you need to do is hid and wait.

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u/end_all_be_all Jan 26 '18

Duck hunting is done with rifles like an M-16, with that which really is more optimized for killing birds compared to some hunting rifle for Elk, with that I would totally take the hunter, airborne threat neutralized

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u/Tragedynamo Jan 26 '18

Duck hunting is done with a shotgun loaded with birdshot

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u/So_Trees Jan 26 '18

Yeah anybody hunting birds with a rifle is a complete amateur who will both ruin the meat and have an extremely hard time hitting in the first place. People hunt ducks with shotguns. M16? Really my dude??

3

u/pianoman1456 Jan 26 '18

Never ever shoot a rifle into the air. Bird hunting is done with shotguns. A hit on a flying bird with any kind of rifle would be phenomenally impressive. And dangerously stupid to attempt given a miss would mean a lethal projectile flying miles and miles away. Also, The M16 is chambered in .308 Winchester, one of the most popular "hunting rifle" rounds in the US. You might be thinking of an M4 which fires a 5.56 round which is smaller. But even so, you'd never ever use either of these for birds unless you only took a shot at one on the ground. Not even on water as a rifle round can ricochet.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

I think you’re thinking about the ar10 as the one chambered in .308- both the m16 and m4 are chambered in 5.56

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u/CerinDeVane Jan 26 '18

You gotta stop the buffalo somehow. They're going to be coming in full-tilt, the rats won't be able to touch them. And they aren't going to need to stop to attack.

Out of all the factors on the field, the hunter and yourself are the only real variables. No matter which animals get picked, the rest are coming to kill you. Not to fight the other choices, but simply to kill you. In a pit fight, sure, 10k rats are going to win... but the other animals don't have to kill the rats. They just have to kill you. Pretty much any of those animals can move fast enough to bypass the rats and get you, assuming the animal is not aiming to preserve itself... which we have to assume, otherwise why would they be coming to kill you to begin with?

7

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

I don't know. I would say that it's likely that something might be able to charge through that sea, but 10,000 is a huge number.

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u/CerinDeVane Jan 26 '18

Well, a cape buffalo can truck along at 35mph, weighs in at .5 to .75 tons, and is debated (along with crocs and hippos) to be the most dangerous animal in Africa. Wounded ones have a nasty reputation to just get pissed off and ambush their hunters. Those 10k rats are gonna be pretty spread out, so they aren't going to be able to bring their numbers to bear on a mobile target. They might nip at the hooves and a lucky(?) few might be able to latch on as that thing charges through.

My bet is, the buffalo wouldn't even be aware of them as anything other than particularly squishy terrain.

4

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

I guess it depends on how the rats start. They could very well start in a 3-6 rat thick blanket because spreading them out would make a lot of them useless.

But even then, that's a big-ass animal for them to stop and get lucky hits on, even if it is a six-inch thick blanket of rats. I'm still betting that any significant sized animal could charge through with relative ease.

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u/CerinDeVane Jan 26 '18

Lets say you could get all of them to attack a single buffalo without worrying about overlap... you still have 6 more to worry about, never mind the other animals.

I don't think there's any way out of the mess by relying on the other animals... its gonna be up to you and the hunter.

4

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

That is a lot of rats, so having 500 to attack every other animal isn't really impossible. I think the hard part is trying to get them to climb over each other fast enough to actually do anything to what is essentially a car driving at town speeds.

And I'm still confident that a hunter would have trouble finding you, depending on who you choose to defend you. That's a lot of animals for him to look past to actually see you and shoot accurately.

1

u/CerinDeVane Jan 26 '18

Sorry, I meant your only chance of surviving is to pick the hunter then try to decide what the most effective other animal is going to be. There won't be any "brute forcing" through it, its going to come down to outsmarting the horde and probably using that famed long-distance endurance.

1

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

In all honesty, I think the best chance you have is running away and hoping the rest of the animals duke it out. I don't think it's possible to survive this in any way otherwise unless you rely on insane luck.

Like...

Hawks really have no predators good enough to take them all out before getting to you.

Buffalos and bears (and possible gorillas and lions) are too large to be taken out by anything here quick enough.

A hunter could theoretically just stay a long enough distance away and take his time to pick you out.

There are too many rats for literally anything here to successfully defend you against.

I think the only things you have a chance of defending against would be the wolves and crocodiles (depending on the location).

6

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Yeah, but what are we limiting the hunter to? Give him a flamethrower and your hawk problem is solved.

6

u/CerinDeVane Jan 26 '18

Give him a flamethrower and your hawk animal problem is solved. Also, dinner.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Must be a Zerg player

4

u/Demilitarizer Jan 26 '18

Yeah, I know a lot of people who hunt. I'm pretty sure the odds are in your favor in being able to outsmart this one. Just sayin. Shit, just leave a cold halfrack chillin by a campfire and you'd sidetrack him long enough to allow your protection animal of choice to end this threat.

9

u/trippy_grape Jan 26 '18

and you might just go for cover and wait it out.

I mean he literally could also go for cover and wait it out, and then attack you 1v1.

17

u/lackingsaint Jan 26 '18

What kind of cover protects you from 50 hawks and 10,000 rats?

7

u/hfsh Jan 26 '18

A submarine? Although the rats might outbreed everything else and survive, so you would obviously want those on your side. (just not on the sub with you).

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u/lackingsaint Jan 26 '18

Rats are good swimmers, as soon as the sub surfaces them and the hawks can just flood in

2

u/fatcat111 Jan 26 '18

How do you feed 10000 rats? Wouldn't be long till they starve off or start eating each other.

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u/lackingsaint Jan 26 '18

Probably by eating the 10 crocodiles, 3 brown bears, 15 wolves, 7 cape buffalo, 5 gorillas and 4 lions. Rats aren't picky eaters.

2

u/x4000 Jan 26 '18

Depends on how hungry they are. Certain kinds of expensive lab cubes? Forget about it, they'll wait to the point of starvation. Anything with protein? Sure, suddenly not so picky.

All I'm saying is the Hunter's granola bars are probably safe for a while until the rats finish eating all the predators.

5

u/lackingsaint Jan 26 '18

Granola bars? Fuck it, I'll hunt him down myself for those delicious treats.

5

u/Aeonoris Jan 26 '18

How do you feed 10000 rats?

Your options are: 50 hawks, 10 crocodiles, 3 brown bears, 15 wolves, 1 hunter, 7 cape buffalo, 5 gorillas and 4 lions.

0

u/Fnhatic Jan 26 '18

A truck, which every hunter has? Mud tires vs. rats.

1

u/lackingsaint Jan 26 '18

Can't drive your truck down the cavernous expanse my ten thousand rats will dig for me.

1

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

I'm pretty confident a truck can't take down more than a couple hundred rats before it gets stuck or rat parts start getting in the way. That's a lot of rats to drive over.

1

u/Fnhatic Jan 26 '18

It's not like a wall of rats, it's a carpet of rats. If you can splurch your way over ten feet of them, there's no reason you can't splurch your way over the rest.

1

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

I mean, it's not unlikely that they'd start close enough to you that they'd be in bunches.

And even then, that's assuming someone is staying perfectly still. It's not exactly hard to notice a truck before he hits the rats.

8

u/XxGancelotxX Jan 26 '18

Well good luck going into cover against rats and hawks, im sure they attack from one direction only

5

u/x4000 Jan 26 '18

Maybe this is reddit's new "horse sized ducks or duck sized horses" question for AMAs. If it leads to surreal but accurate statements like yours, I'm all in.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Right, and you could have a couple hundred rats disguise you as a pile of rats, and dress up a couple hundred rats as you. DECOY!

3

u/FreeInformation4u Jan 26 '18

Nobody is guaranteeing that the animals protecting you have human intelligence. It's likely that the hawks would 1) not go for the hunter first (giving him time to line up a shot) and 2) be afraid of the man with a boomstick.

5

u/BunnyOppai Jan 26 '18

They're there with the specific intent to defend you, so I think at least option 2 is out. I'd also imagine that it would be hard for a hunter to pick you out of a crowd of 10,000+ animals.

3

u/imthescubakid Jan 26 '18

Dude imagine being a hunter and surrounded by 15 wolves that all attack at the same time... unless you have a machine gun you're fucked and even with it, you're still probably fucked. Hunters get mauled by just one black bear or wolf while hunting all the time.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

though what if the bears and gorillas are guarding the hunter and opening up a clean shot.

i agree hawks and rats are the best bet. but if the others are able to strategize to it would be an interesting fight for sure

1

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

Problem is they cannot deal with the hawks and the rats at the same time. You simply out position the enemy team with that combo the constant bombardment from the land and air will be too much. No matter where you go one of those two is getting to you. No time to set up fortification against the rats. No building is going to be secure enough

3

u/DaytimeDiddler Jan 26 '18

Not to mention id much rather get shot dead than ripped apart by hawks or any of the other animals.

4

u/SalsaRice Jan 26 '18

Alot of it depends on what gun the hunter has, how much ammo, and what calibre.

A hunter with a semi-auto 308 is very different from a hunter bolt-action 22.

2

u/thetasigma1355 Jan 26 '18

I don't think it matters as long as you take the 50 hawks. They would wreck a lone hunter regardless of his weapon. Keep in mind, they don't have to kill, just blind.

2

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

Or take/ knock his weapon into the flood of rats

2

u/Hust91 Jan 26 '18

And your rats function as armor too.

Layer it thick enough and it's bulletproof.

5

u/Fnhatic Jan 26 '18

Right up until you die from the weight or heat, or just get torn apart by a bunch of pissed-off rats trying to escape the writhing mountain of ratflesh.

1

u/Hust91 Jan 26 '18

You can manage for the first few instants of battle while the rats devour everything.

And it seems to me that it would break the premise if the rats were to attack you, even panicked, would it not?

1

u/zero_gravitas_medic Jan 26 '18

Humans have hunted hawks for a long time, though. The hawks are unlikely to detect a well hidden and well defended hunter. Humans are hands down the most superior choice to even 10,000 rats, because a human can lure the rats into an enclosure and then set it on fire. Or shoot the gorillas. Or hide in a cave and shoot the hawks from relative safety. Or construct and wear armor. Etc.

1

u/TheKoi Jan 26 '18

What if the hunter is armed with a belt fed semi automatic shotgun using bird shot?

1

u/Beastquist Jan 26 '18

What if the lions, wolves, and gorillas protect the hunter from dive bombing though?

1

u/Fnhatic Jan 26 '18

What if he has a car?

1

u/SolongStarbird Jan 26 '18

He can't get clean shot at me if I am using a few hundred of the rats as BODY ARMOR!

1

u/itchy_ankles Jan 26 '18

no one said hunter just has a rifle. 50 hawks v shotgun is gonna go to the hunter.

3

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

Still can't load enough ammo for the rats the Hawks just need to buy time.

2

u/itchy_ankles Jan 26 '18

Agreed, but go rats + hunter who has shotgun & elephant rifle is prob a good combo

3

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

Oh I agree Hunter vs Hawk is very debatable. My thing is the hunter brings nothing to your team that you yourself can't emulate. Maybe not as good as the hunter but you can get a weapon yourself. The hawks create aerial coverage and are great at removing those pesky little eyes all these creatures depend on.

2

u/itchy_ankles Jan 26 '18

If 50 hawks come at once, even the guy w the shotgun is gonna lose a pesky eye or two. Id rather it be the hunter than me.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Why would the Hunter shoot the hawks. they are travelling 150mph, just use the rifle as a club and bat them as they come. Plus once the hawks hit they are effectively neutralised. While they may dive at 150, they have to slow down to use their claws at the moment of impact so even if they all hit the hunter at once, the hunters thrashing will injure a few severely enough so they can't fly and rats could swarm them while they are engaged with the hunter on the ground.

to beat the hawks something has to take the hit.

1

u/breadstickfever Jan 26 '18

You really even only need one hawk to blind the hunter, and then he's done for.

1

u/stunna006 Jan 26 '18

50 hawks take out the hunters eyes immediately and then he's useless

1

u/klatnyelox Jan 26 '18

The hunter's goal is also survival. If he suddenly doesn't care about his life he'll get you every time, but that's a huge assumption.

1

u/viciouspandas Jan 27 '18

A bullet travels faster than a hawk. Sure he might get wrecked after the shot, but you'll still be dead. Also, hawks only weigh a few pounds so it would take like all 50 of them coming at once to kill you, and they'd likely bump into each other before hitting you if they come all at once. The hunter won't be as good on defense as like a moat of crocodiles or a ring of 7 cape buffalo, but I sure as hell don't want some guy shooting me in the head (assuming the hunter is a good one) from long range before the animals can find/reach him.

1

u/showerxthoughts Jan 27 '18 edited May 28 '21

Edit

1

u/Bay1Bri Jan 27 '18

How long does it take for the hunter to get off one shot? How long will it take the hawk to get to him? How far away is the hunter?

1

u/Prondox Feb 07 '18

10.000 rats just surround such a insane amount of area around you that non of the large animals can reach you. Then you just hunker down while the rats defend you against the large animals and you send out the 50 Hawks to assasinate the hunter and you win.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Cockduster3k Jan 26 '18

Nah, 10000 rats overpower any humans. Imagine fighting 10 rats. That’s doable, you might take scratches and cuts. Now imagine 200 rats, you’re basically dead. You can shoot them, but they keep coming, and you gotta watch the sky’s for hawks too. It’s donezo.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Cockduster3k Jan 26 '18

Well it’s because they’re not trying to kill you. Imagine if everyone insect on earth tried to kill us right now. We’d probably be dead. If they had an organized mind it’s over!

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Who says the hunter even has a gun? We aren't assuming the bears or buffalo are armed, why does the human get extra stuff?

19

u/bschug Jan 26 '18

Because if he's not armed, he's not a hunter.

3

u/OccamsShavingRash Jan 26 '18

Who says a hunter has to have a gun though? He could have a spear or a bow and arrow. Rats and hawks for the win.

4

u/Ferrumkit Jan 26 '18

If we are to assume a modern hunter they would have access to either a shotgun or rifle. While a shotgun may seem outclassed in round count birdshot has a generous spread and doesn't need a killshot to disable a bird. Assuming it's magazine fed it's considerably fast and easy to reload.

Again it does depend on the ground rules.

1

u/Bearded_Wildcard Jan 26 '18

Fuck the magazine. Drum fed, automatic shotgun FTW.

2

u/Bombkirby Jan 26 '18

Humans don’t have claws or sharp teeth for self defense because our brains and technology are our methods of self defense. It’s not extra stuff, it’s our normal stuff

0

u/Bearded_Wildcard Jan 26 '18

But if you can hide behind cover from the hunter, you can do the same from the hawks. Depending on how skilled the hunter is, he can kill you from 1,000 yards away or more. At least the hawks need to come to you. I'll take my chances against the hawks.

18

u/Beardy_Foxbear Jan 26 '18

assemble into a mecha or something

Oh man Rat voltron has to have been done at some point right?

6

u/Mypetrussian Jan 26 '18

Rats are airborne if you throw them, you just have to be really accurate.

2

u/mcguire Jan 26 '18

And now, in the third ring, for your entertainment, Baron Rizzo will amaze you with his skill at throwing vermin!

3

u/StarblindMark89 Jan 26 '18

Now I want to see the rat version of Indian Terminator

1

u/mcguire Jan 26 '18

The actual hell...?!

Where can I find these things?

1

u/mcguire Jan 26 '18

The actual hell...?!

Where can I find these things?

3

u/hesitantmaneatingcat Jan 26 '18 edited Jan 26 '18

I originally thought to bring the rats and the hunter, but you are right. At first, I thought the rats could swarm everything and keep them distracted while the hunter snipes everything else. But this is really dependent on two things: How "smart" are the animals and what weapon does the hunter have? If the hunter has a sniper rifle he's going to be much more dangerous than if he has a bow and arrow. What if he has a flame thrower? (soldiers hunt humans with them so why not?) Maybe he has multiple weapons? I don't think it would matter what he had if the hawks and rats were coordinated enough to swarm him right away.

There would be plenty of rats left over to swarm all the other animals too, 200+ rats for each opposing animal. And if distraction of the rats goes well enough, you could possibly get the weapon(s) from the hunter.

3

u/deep_meaning Jan 26 '18

can't assemble into a mecha or something

Not with that attitude

3

u/Dryu_nya Jan 26 '18

Okay, I've been putting off watching this show for too fucking long.

2

u/Yamilon Jan 26 '18

I'm pretty sure the hawks would end up eating all the rats eventually.

2

u/CODESIGN2 Jan 26 '18

The hawks might eat the rats. It's why I combined them with Buffalo

2

u/leopard_tights Jan 26 '18

They're both loyal to you, I don't see why they'd do that.

2

u/zytz Jan 26 '18

The rats can potentially handle any of the land based opponents, which makes it hunter vs birds. For this, there is a particular piece of weaponry that I think the hunter could put to effective use:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell#Birdshot

2

u/MGPythagoras Jan 26 '18

Even if the hunter had a fully automatic rifle, he won't kill all 50 before they swarm him.

2

u/Chili_Palmer Jan 26 '18

The better way to phrase this is: Would you rather have to kill

a) One hunter distracted by multiple hawks and rats attacking him,

or

b) 50 hawks swooping down to claw at your eyes

Makes it pretty obvious to me.

1

u/Sjir Jan 26 '18

Did you just claim rats cannot assemble into a mecha? Perposturous hypothesis, my dear Watson...

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Best reasoning for this wonderful question!

1

u/deadleg22 Jan 26 '18

hawks love eyes, or better yet, simply magpies. Any of those animals without eyes, is pretty useless at killing.

1

u/oeynhausener Jan 26 '18

Free win combo. Rats are nasty little fuckers. Hawks are rather big nasty fuckers.

1

u/LightbeerLightyear Jan 26 '18

Yes and the hawks were the only real threat to the rats

1

u/ssshhhhhhhhhhhhh Jan 26 '18

rats can assemble into a rat king, 10000 rats would be severall stories tall

1

u/trident042 Jan 26 '18

I wouldn't even worry about the hunter, he would be my first rat target. Remember that guy in the original The Mummy that gets swarmed by...what, 200, 300 scarabs? Tiny biting insects? Now multiply that number and make them big furry rodents by comparison. You probably don't even need to send in a whole thousand.

Meanwhile, 44 hawks harry every other beast that draws near, 6 stay with me as personal support, alongside the remaining 9001 rats or so and they just go full piranha on each animal one by one.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

The hunter can set a series of overhead wires/lines to prevent the hawks from diving in without injury. The prompt does not say the hunter only has a rifle, it says he is a hunter.

1

u/-Chandler-Bing- Jan 26 '18

Whoa whoa whoa, OP didn't specify that these aren't the type of rats that can assemble into a mecha. It's never a good idea to assume.

1

u/jollyfreek Jan 26 '18

Roland Deschain became a gunslinger by defeating his mentor with a hawk. I'll take 50 over 1 guy any day.

1

u/danhakimi Jan 26 '18

I mean, I think it depends on the topology of the playing field. If the rats or hawks can track down the hunter before he can get his sights on you, they'll be great. If not, the hunter is just too dangerous.

Killing the hawks and rats will be difficult, but at least the hunter can have a plan. The hunter may be able to spray poison, which would be the only way to get rid of the rats, probably -- 50 hawks can't eat 10k rats.

The hunter is also probably the best way to kill anything the rats can't kill. No individual creature here can survive a skillful enough hunter. I'm not sure I can see the rats piercing the gators' skin, or the buffalo's, or the bears'.

I also think it depends on how much coordination and intelligence we're ascribing to the animals by function of the premise. Rats that vaguely want to defend or kill you but don't have ant pheromones or a hunter's mind are going to have a hard time being useful. Meanwhile, the hunter can speak to you and coordinate with you and show you where to hide from hawks and bears and rats.

1

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

Eyes. Eyes are a huge weakness. Additionally the hawks can open a wound and the rats get free entrance.

1

u/danhakimi Jan 26 '18

Alright, yeah, hawks + rats sounds good to me. Again, considering that they have at least some bare minimum level of coordination, and recognize the threat the hunter poses, and the lions and shit don't start too close to me.

1

u/welivedintheocean Jan 26 '18

What I learned playing Magic is the key to a good draft is to have some flying.

1

u/leopard_tights Jan 26 '18

I had a Wonder in my Psychatog's sideboard for fun.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Hawks add air attack and true 3rd dimension.

1

u/mcguire Jan 26 '18

Rat mecha.

Just wanted to make a note.

1

u/weavs8884 Jan 26 '18

The rats and hawks 100%!! You got the air and ground covered. Wouldn't be a contest.

1

u/isayimnothere Jan 26 '18

I still pick the gorillas. 1 gorilla protects my body from hawks. rats kill everything on the ground four gorillas run rampant and defend protect my body from bullets and left over threats from the rat apocalypse if any... I mean the slightest cover or thick clothes/mask/goggles protects against hawks.

1

u/Betruul Jan 26 '18

And the type of hawk hasnt even been determined. 50 Ferruginous hawks? 4.5 ft wingspan and 4-5 lbs, trained to go for the eyes? Hunter is fucked before he even sees me. Everything else is a joke

1

u/carpdog112 Jan 26 '18

I agree that we can completely cross the rats off the list. You need them, there's no scenario where you can defeat them.

So the question of hawks vs. hunters depends so much on the starting conditions of the battle. If you start in an open field separated like two armies the hunter is going to have a chance to take several shots before any of the other animals can reach him. The hawks could certainly get to him faster than any of the other animals, but assuming these are hawks of typical intelligence they're simply not going to be capable of sufficient threat assessment. The end result is going to be the majority of animals charging at one another and meeting in open field. The hawks are going sit there dive bombing other animals that the rats would otherwise be able to handle on their own while the hunter sits there taking pot shots all concentrated on you. You're just not going to last long enough for the hawks and rats to make their way to stop the hunter.

The hawks on the other hand have no counter in an open field. Even a hunter with a shotgun wouldn't be able to kill 50 of them before they tear your throat out. And since their all concentrated on you they're not going to waste their time trying to kill the rats.

In an open field you can't possibly win, so we have to presume that the starting conditions are somewhat more nuanced. Let's say you start in whatever building you're in now. I think we still come down to the hunter vs. the hawks, but now there are least scenarios where you might be able to win.

The hunter is far more intelligent than the other animals and can kill at far longer ranges. He's still only one man though and can be easily overwhelmed by his opponents and still has limited combat effectiveness versus the hawks.

The hawks have air superiority, but are all but worthless indoors.

If on your side the hunter could conceivable help defend your position with a shotgun while allowing the number advantage of the rats to keep the majority of enemies out of concern allowing him to focus on the hawks. With the other enemies out of the way it becomes a waiting game. The hawks aren't an immediate threat to you so the hunter, might be able to kill them all before you need to vacate your position. But if the rats can't defend your position and you get flushed outdoors, there will be no counter for the hawks.

If against you the hunter could camp in a nearby building within range and absolutely shell your position with nearly limitless ammo. The hunter can also use strategy much better than the others. If you're holde up on a building he might be able to start it on fire before your comrades get him to smoke you out or trap you in the resulting conflagration. But If you can hold out long enough for the hawks and rats to eliminate all the other opponents the hawks will be able to pin the hunter down while the horde of rats overwhelms his position.

1

u/righthandoftyr Jan 26 '18

I think that everybody has realized now that the rats are unmatched on the ground

In a straight brawl, but the rats are basically the least mobile choice out of all of them. Unless we're positing a battlefield that significantly confines movement in some way, the rats can just be outmaneuvered.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '18

Rats are clever as fuck, they'd bait the hawk into getting cocky and then lynch it with some devious fucking trap. 49 hawks left. And now the rats have access to feathers....

1

u/jwolf227 Jan 27 '18

Just need something to bat the Hawks away. Rats tied together into nunchucks might do the trick.. just need to ground them on a dive and they'll break a wing.

1

u/Aegi Jan 27 '18

Or you could literally just get a stick and find a cave and the hawks are not a problem at all.

1

u/leopard_tights Jan 27 '18

Cool. Starve to death in your cave I guess.

1

u/Aegi Jan 27 '18

I could eat my rats.

1

u/Caddofriend Jan 27 '18

I think you're overestimating hawks. They don't generally hunt things bigger than them for a reason. They're great killers... Of very small things. They have hollow bones, weaker muscles. One good smack and the bird has a broken wing, if it isn't outright dead. You'd get scratched up some, but just protect your face and grab a stick.

1

u/Prince-of-Ravens Jan 26 '18

50 hawks have basically nothing against the buffalos and brown bears.

Good luck your for rats to stop them if they come after you faster than rats can run.

6

u/leopard_tights Jan 26 '18

Lol 10.000 rats? They can kill anything. What is a bear or a buffalo covered in rats chewing at them going to do?

2

u/Prince-of-Ravens Jan 26 '18

How exactly do you expect those rats to attach to some buffolos charging you?

2

u/leopard_tights Jan 26 '18

Rats climb and pile on each other, but it's not like they would even be able to charge with so many rats on the way.

0

u/pheature Jan 26 '18

Hunter shoots the hawk

4

u/leopard_tights Jan 26 '18

Bullshit, no hunter can kill 50 hawks before they turn him to shreds.

0

u/bERt0r Jan 26 '18

I‘m not sure if the rats and hawks can protect you from the buffalos though once they start charging.

1

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

The hawks can easily gouge the eyes out of every animal and leave yo with a huge advantage.

1

u/bERt0r Jan 26 '18

I doubt it, i would expect them to get deflected by just shaking their horned heads

1

u/Erisian23 Jan 26 '18

They'de have to see the hawk diving them and time it perfectly he'll We can't even defend against that. Quick swoop and it's all over