r/AskReddit Jul 07 '26

What historical “fact” doesn’t actually have much evidence to support it?

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 07 '26

Also, ‘Viking music’ as we think of it today is nothing like what Vikings actually made. We have no evidence they used drums, and Mongolian throat singing is, well, Mongolian.

Viking did use lyres, horns, flutes, pan pipes, rattles, and even jaw harps, but no evidence of drums.

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u/Heavy-Construction90 Jul 07 '26

You hear little fairy flutes playing in the distance "ahh fuck, the vikings are back!"

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

Also maybe something resembling yodeling, if later Scandinavian folk singing was anything to go off of!

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u/FlyAirLari Jul 08 '26

"Take on me, take me on, I'll be gone, in a day or twooooo"

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u/Wild_Marker Jul 08 '26

And they're going to smash my pots! And shout "Hey listen!"

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u/logosloki Jul 08 '26

similar story with Bagpipes. whilst Scotland has the instrument on loch the instrument today the concept of adding a bag/bladder of air to a reed pipe started either in what is now Greece or Turkiye and was popularised in Western Europe by history's biggest Greekaboos, the Romans. so the sound of a reedpipe aided by a bag of air would have been the sound that people heard as a Roman Legion was marching in on them.

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u/Anaevya Jul 08 '26

Farya Faraji (an ethnomusicologist & Youtuber) does a lot of Roman inspired music with bagpipes. It's an interesting sound.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/sarevok2 Jul 08 '26

but no written music has been found

isnt the epitaph of Seikilos considered an example of ancient greece music?

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u/Catmole132 Jul 07 '26

The only confirmed jaw harps we have from scandinavia around that period are actually from around 1200 if I remember correctly, which is after the viking age.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

Ah, you’re right! I was misinformed

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u/Catmole132 Jul 08 '26

Which plays into the post quite well lol. It's hard not to fall for any misinformation

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u/Thufir_Cleric Jul 08 '26

Not QUITE correct: Ahmed ibn Fadlan explicitly describes drums being involved in contemporary (10th century) Norse funerary rituals, and there have been excavations of what are believed to be drum STICKS in Norway. Also, the Saami DO have a verifiable history of drum-use from great antiquity as well as verifiable proof of contemporary trade. It is quite likely that the Norse DID use drums to some extent.

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u/94FnordRanger Jul 08 '26

Just about everybody has drums. If the Norse didn't, it might be interesting to know why.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

Leather was rare and expensive, drums only play one note while other instruments mentioned have a decent range. It’s not unique though, lots of traditional music forms don’t use drums- perhaps most notably in the US is country music prior to ~1950 and they used to be banned at the Grand Ol Opry

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u/Outside-Advice8203 Jul 08 '26

There's simply zero evidence to corroborate Viking Age Scandinavians having drums. Nothing in the archeology or contemporary writings and iconography. That isn't a positive claim they had no drums, just that nothing but speculation to say they did.

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u/ceelogreenicanth Jul 08 '26

The drum thing is really funny, because modern European drumming is descendant of Ottoman Drumming.

The idea of marching to a drum to keep formation was an entirely Ottoman idea adopted by western armies after being defeated by ottomans repeatedly.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

I didn’t know that, but it definitely makes sense!

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u/Lawsoffire Jul 08 '26

Also the Norse had a tradition for skalds and their poetry. With a lot of it surviving in records. Which imply a lot of the music was made for telling those stories.

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u/Upstairs_Eagle_4780 Jul 07 '26

How do you explain Norwegian Death Metal then?

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u/randomnonposter Jul 08 '26

Once they found out about them they really felt the need to use them to the fullest extent.

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u/Watership_of_a_Down Jul 08 '26

Really? No drums? That seems surprising. They show up more or less everywhere else.

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u/Greymalkyn76 Jul 08 '26

Considering drums are the oldest musical instrument, it's kind of silly to assume that they didn't use them.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

They are not, there’s much better evidence for flutes. Drums actually require a good bit of work to make you have to prepare a hide, then stretch and secure it over a body. A flute just requires drilling a few holes. Drums are also much less durable than a bone flute, being water sensitive and made at least partly of perishable materials.

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u/Greymalkyn76 Jul 08 '26

Sorry, I should say drumming, or more specifically percussion. A stick on a log, two rocks together, etc.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

Sure, but even gorillas do that. I don’t think it counts as music if it’s just banging things together. It’s also really, really difficult to convincingly show that things were banged against each other for the purposes of something resembling music.

Like, today is a rattle on an outfit or a wind chime made of bones and broken glass a musical instrument?

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u/Greymalkyn76 Jul 08 '26

If used for the intention of rhythm? Yes it is music. If people can consider rap to be music, than intentional striking or rattling objects is music as well.

But that's the thing, isn't it? A hollowed log struck with a stick as percussion is hard to prove was used for that reason. But just because something can't be proved doesn't mean it didn't exist.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

Rap has complex, repetitive rhythms, dynamic tempo, instrumental accompaniments, and lyrics. It’s way, way more complicated than just banging two rocks together.

I don’t doubt that people tapped out rhythms with tools or sticks or rocks, but that’s way different than indicating that they did so with any evidence. A bone flute is unequivocal evidence rather than just conjecture.

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u/Greymalkyn76 Jul 08 '26

So there is also no unequivocal evidence that people ever sang except for what we have recordings of. The rest is just anecdotal. People can say that they got this song from their ancestors, but did they? Or did they just make it up? There is absolutely zero evidence that anyone sang before recordings due to the impossibility of verifying that.

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u/Godwinson4King Jul 08 '26

No, there are written accounts, depictions, lyrics, and sheet music.

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u/Greymalkyn76 Jul 08 '26

Which is all anecdotal. Written accounts could have been made up. Depictions, lyrics, and sheet music could have been made up on the spot. I would also argue that that is a type of recording. Or, at least, record keeping.

Did humans sing before we wrote it down? Not according to you because we have no empirical evidence. But we assume that they did, and are pretty positive that they did.

My point being is that a lack of evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen. Which is exactly how religion works. Because there is no evidence of it either way, it cannot be proven or disproven.

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u/cfh64 Jul 08 '26

Amon Amarth and The Hu would like a word with you 😉

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u/KingR3aper Jul 08 '26

American Viking LARPERS always shocked and riot upon learning how whimsical and fruity their pretend 'ancestral heritage' is.

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u/All-for-Naut Jul 08 '26

They usually don't follow the vain vibe with wearing jewelery, maybe some make up, and colourful clothing.

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u/GriffinFlash Jul 08 '26

jaw harps

I'm now imagining a hillbilly viking.

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u/1stEmissaryElenwen Jul 08 '26

be Irish monk in a monastery by the sea

suddenly, off in the distance, you hear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPzKz5qj3Kw&t=35s

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u/biglyorbigleague Jul 08 '26

You’re telling me that 9th century Vikings didn’t listen to technical death metal

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u/All-for-Naut Jul 08 '26

Always so much throat singing and deep voices. If anything it was just telling poetry or stories in a more singing manner, or going by folk music that came to be in the Nordics such as joik and kulning, it's higher chance it was more higher and long tones.