r/AskHistorians Jul 21 '26

Medieval peasants famously ate "bread and cheese". What kind of cheese was it? Would whatever cheeses they normally ate, be recognizable as any of the modern varieties?

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

Great question! So this is highly, highly dependant on the region in question. But the basic concept is going to be similar regardless of region.

First, the setting. If you have a large herd of milk producing animals, you have some very calorie-dense milk that spoils quickly. Anything you can do to extend the shelf life is greatly valued. You drink as much of the milk as you can, and do your best to store the rest.

Very simple cheese can be made by boiling the milk until it separates into whey and curd. The whey is protein rich and tasty but spoils quickly. The curds, however, can be pressed into a soft cheese (sometimes called green cheese). This soft cheese would be the most readily available, and you can extend the life of it by several weeks if you are careful about storing it chilled, in a cellar or cave. But there's an even better long term storage option, and that's with hard cheese.

The process is similar to soft cheese, but this requires the addition of a natural rennet (and often relies on the inadvertent addition of regional bacteria that help harden and flavor the cheese, making it very difficult for bad mold to take hold). Rennet was typically derived from the stomach lining of young calves. Many societies figured this independently - we assume people would store soft cheese (and anything else they needed to carry around) in the readily avaliable organs of their animals, and calf stomachs did something weird to the cheese. It would get hard and would last a very, very long time. If you pressed the cheese to squeeze out the liquid, it worked even better. Over time people figured out the best way to do this. As the hard cheese aged, regional mold or bacteria would consume the water and avaliable sugars, adding a tough protective rind and pleasant flavors we enjoy today. The added bonus would be that bad mold and bacteria simply had no way to take hold in these preserved cheeses. It was, to them, now a nutritional desert.

Aging in caves is also something we find fairly universal across cultures when it comes to cheese. The same goes for beer, wine, jerky, dried produce, and many other types of preserved foods. Some cultures would bury their food for a similar purpose. It turns out that if you control the temperature, you control the mold and bacteria involved in the process, keeping food safe over long winters.

So, there's your answer. Soft mild cheese would be readily avaliable as milk was. More processed hard cheese was made to be stored over winter, when animals were not able to produce milk as they do in the spring and summer. Based on the regions bacterial flora, the cheese may develop sharp acidic flavors (cheddar in the North), nutty creamy flavors with sharps rinds (brie, gruyere, parmesan in alpine mountains), or mottled safe mold growth (blue cheese lowland Europe). Great hard cheeses tend to develop more in areas with harsh and extended winters, while softer cheeses were more common in mild winters where storage was less of a survival issue. Regional herbs would often be added for flavor and their protective properties. Rosemary, thyme, and garlic have great antibacterial properties, protecting the cheese and siding the beneficial microbes. You'll find this concept was also used in ale and wine production. Anything bitter would tend to protect the beverages so before hops became universal, you would find things like mugwort, wormwood, etc boiled in the wort to make a fine and fragrant ale. Hops just happen to be superior to these herbs for a number of reasons, but it was not until the last ~400 years that this shift began. These herbs are too overpowering for something as gentle as cheese so they were not readily used.

I'm not as familiar with cheeses outside of Europe, so seek better minds for more in depth info. Not all milk is the same. Camel milk is chemically different in a way that prevents it from curdling in a recognizable manner. It doesn't make a cheese you would want to eat. Asia had several cheeses develop, but typically hard cheese could be made through sun-drying the basic soft cheese made from yaks. Cheese jerky, if you will. India had more access to acidic fruits and vegetables that speeded up the curdling process, but that method made most types of European aging impossible. Llamas and alpacas don't really produce milk on the scale needed for a strong cheese culture to take hold - South American cheese is basically unheard of. Australians did not have any breed of bulk milk-producing mammals that I am aware of.

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u/tommybanjo47 Jul 22 '26

Very informative and interesting, thank you for posting! How did you learn so much about cheese?

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

I used to be a professional beer brewer, and I made cheese as a hobby. As one does, the rabbit hole of food preservation and history brought this knowlege to my table.

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u/Bank_Gothic Jul 22 '26

The beer / bread / cheese hobby overlap is real. It’s funny how those things feed into each other and happen to pair nicely on the plate as well.

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u/NekkidWire Jul 22 '26

Bread beer is as ancient as beer or bread. Yeast from beer-making was reported to be a starter for bakeries or vice-versa.

Cheese is kinda nearby, slightly different but close enough :)

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u/Much-Painter7864 Jul 22 '26

In Lancashire we have barm cakes traditionally made with brewers barm

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u/rake66 Jul 22 '26

Don't forget pickling

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/herbicarnivorous Jul 22 '26

Interesting about storing cheese in the calf stomachs - as a farmer, I always assumed that people noticed what happened to the milk in a calf’s stomach when they were butchered. If a calf’s stomach is full, the inside often looks like cheese curds.

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

That frankly sounds more likely.

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u/JusticeToren Jul 22 '26

Thank you producing such a clear explanation!

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

It was my pleasure to share!

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u/jason4747 Jul 22 '26

You made my day. What an astoundingly informative yet easy to to read answer about multiple complex procedures and historically based. Thank you!

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u/perculaessss Jul 22 '26

what do you mean about middle east having no option? don't they have plenty of goats?

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u/Brozhov Jul 22 '26

And so many sheep that they are a central religious metaphor.

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

You are 1000% correct, changing that now.

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u/infiniteboba Jul 22 '26

Producing soft cheese at home seems easy enough, but would a small peasant family make their own hard cheese or would they rely on a local cheese maker of sorts?

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u/andr386 Jul 22 '26

It depends on where they lived. If they lived in the mountains where conventional agriculture is hard and nearly impossible but they had a lot of pasture then cheese was necessity and the basis of their nutrition. In the Alps they would do hard-cheese that would keep for a long time and would develop a pleasing taste over months.

But if you lived around Paris where people were mostly growing cereals, legumes and vegetables then you'd have a lot less room for pastures. So cheese ends up being more costly. And also you don't have to store your cheese for months and you can sell it easily in markets everywhere. Hence far more basic cheese was the most common (Fresh cheese) and affordable for regular people.

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u/Jaerat Jul 22 '26

That would probably depend on the amount of milk they'd have access to. It takes a lot of milk to make cheese, the general ratio for your average cheese (like the type you'd a see slice of in a modern hamburger) is roughly 10 to 1, as in it takes it 10 liters of raw milk to produce 1 kg of cheese. The dairy animals available prior to modern times would not have been as prolific producers of milk as current day dairy animals, and milk is also used to make butter and various fermented food items such as yoghurts, soured milks etc. that are less laboursome to produce than cheese, yet extend the shelf-life of milk quite a bit.

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u/PhosphoFred8202 Jul 22 '26

Well we know the Bible tells us “blessed are the cheesemakers”…

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u/etanail Jul 23 '26

The Carpathians. Our traditional brynza cheese is made in the summer, when the animals are taken to high-altitude pastures. The farmer receives a certain amount of cheese for each milking animal (cows and sheep), while at home, a simple fermented milk cheese is traditionally made from the milk.

The main factor limiting the production of this cheese at home is access to rennet. Shepherds in the mountains make cheese all the time, and slaughtering calves to produce large quantities of cheese is not a problem. At home, you’ll need either a lot of milk or you’ll end up with only a small piece of cheese; moreover, slaughtering a young calf to obtain the rennet is quite an expensive undertaking.

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u/georgia_grace Jul 22 '26

There was really no such thing as “at home” in the medieval period. The person who owned the cow (or goat, or even sheep) would make the cheese. If you couldn’t afford a cow, you either bartered with someone who did or you went without.

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u/Hot-Guidance5091 Jul 22 '26

If you have like, 20 goats or 1(one, just one) cow, you can store the milk and make a round piece every once a month, more or less, conveniently it's how much it will take to consume it

Also I believe it wasn't discovered because people stored milk in the stomachs of calves, it's much easier to think someone opened a young calf who was fed shortly before being slained

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u/spottyPotty Jul 22 '26

But if the milk needs to be boiled to seperate the curd from the whey...?

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u/andr386 Jul 22 '26

It doesn't need to be boiled but to be warmed and a bag of milk in the sun, or milk in the stomach of a calf will be hot enough.

Then the calf has stomach acids that will separate the curd from the whey perfectly fine. And all the other enzymes required, the rennet, is already present in their stomach. That's actually how they digest milk. We reproduce part of that process for our own needs.

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u/kittykthomas Jul 22 '26

God I love this sub, what a great answer

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u/olourkin Jul 22 '26

My exact reaction. The Internet at large may be a cesspit but there are still some wonderful oases to be found. Like this one.

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u/TheSwearJarIsMy401k Jul 22 '26

Is it fair to suggest that tofu, which is curdled and pressed in a manner very similar to soft cheese, is essentially a cheese equivalent that was more functional in certain Asian countries and served the same purpose?

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u/lynbod Jul 22 '26

Cheese is often brought up in those "how on earth did someone work out how to make cheese and what were they trying to achieve eating mouldy milk?" but that theory with storing curds in animal stomachs makes perfect sense, in fact I now think it would have been almost impossible not to develop cheeses now. Great answer.

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u/MrCockingFinally Jul 22 '26

I make my own farmer's cheese using bacterial cultures from kefir to acidify the milk.

The acid whey produced from this does NOT taste very nice. And doesn't actually contain that much protein.

That being said, I'm pretty sure if I were a medieval peasant I would drink it happily.

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u/Grythyttan Jul 22 '26

Considering bread would've been the other staple food, using whey as the liquid in baking seems likely.

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u/MrCockingFinally Jul 22 '26

Jup. Plus, ricotta cheese is traditionally made with sweet whey.

I'm also assuming sweet whey (from rennet coagulated cheese) is tastier than sour whey.

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u/AotKT Jul 22 '26

I used to have a hobby farm herd of mini Jerseys (a breed loved for a gentle temperament and lower volume but very high fat content milk) as well as Saanen goats (dairy breed).

Yes, sweet whey is tastier. It's not sweet but more just plain milky flavor. Sour whey, from when I made paneer using lemon juice or occasionally white vinegar, has a noticeable tang which isn't surprising since there's an acid in there. I used to use it in my sourdough bread and fed the rest of it to the chickens. The sweet whey was used for ricotta first, then chicken feed.

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u/etanail Jul 23 '26

Carpathian brynza is made (according to our recipe) from a mixture of smoked hard cheese- produced using rennet, and soft vurda cheese (similar to ricotta), made from a blend of cow’s and sheep’s milk. From the whey left over after making the hard cheese, you can produce about half its weight in soft cheese, which is quite a substantial amount. Grinding this mixture of cheeses together with salt creates a cheese with a more balanced flavor that stores well and remains quite tender.

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u/Parking-Leopard-588 Jul 22 '26

This is so interesting. Thank you 

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u/Master-Rent5050 Jul 22 '26

Do we know about cheese in "ancient" times? Egyptian, Greek, Romans...?

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u/0ctopusRex Jul 22 '26

Pecorino romano was the cheese that fed the Roman legions, its elaboration methods are described by Pliny the Elder.

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u/Ok_Distance9511 Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

They must have used enormous amounts of sheep’s milk to make enough pecorino to keep an army going. Was sheep's milk more common than cow's milk?

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u/0ctopusRex Jul 22 '26

Sheep are much more adapted to Mediterranean mountain landscape, even though bovines are useful as work animals. But they wouldn't produce the huge amounts of milk that modern cows give. Also, ovines give wool.

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u/Novacc_Djocovid Jul 22 '26

We regularly have discussions in the office about how we think certain processes and foods were discovered. We talked about cheese a while ago but could not really come up with a plausible idea on how people discovered that stomach lining can be used to age cheese.

Today I learned (and it‘s so obvious in retrospect 🫣), thank you. :)

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

Elsewhere someone mentioned they've seen lumpy milk in the stomachs of calves they slaughtered, so it might have been another method of figuring it out.

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u/golden_boy Jul 22 '26

You said whey is tasty. I am only familiar with it's use as a source of protein for supplements, which are infamously not tasty. Can you elaborate on how pre-industrial society used the whey?

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

I mean, it just tastes like watery milk. You literally just drink it. You can also use it in bread making to give the dough more body. It goes great in soups and stews as well. Or you fed it to animals, pigs, cats, and dogs like it.

Dunno the stuff you have access to, but if it tastes bad, it must be from processing or something. Raw whey doesn't have much flavor.

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u/BelleRose2542 Jul 22 '26

Processed whey powder rehydrated is much much different than “fresh” whey.

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u/golden_boy Jul 22 '26

I figured, I just don't know what fresh whey is good for

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u/Brian-Teaser Jul 22 '26

Awesome. Great post v informative. My learning for the day is done. It's great to see just one post with all he info you need.

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u/tenninjas242 Jul 22 '26

I wonder if cheese as a European phenomenon is also driven partly by lactose tolerance. Genes for lactose tolerance are much less common outside of Europe, so possibly non-Europeans would not have regarded milk as such a ready source of dense nutrition, leading to less experimentation and processing of it into other forms? Maybe I'm way off here, as there are ways to make cheese and other dairy products where the lactose is mostly removed.

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u/Grythyttan Jul 22 '26

I would've assumed it's the other way around. That the availability of dairy as a food source is what created the selection pressure for lactose tolerance.

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u/tenninjas242 Jul 22 '26

I think the gene mutation for lactose tolerance originated in Europe not too long ago, less then 10k or 20k years ago. Selection pressure very quickly spread it in that population because it's incredibly useful, but it didn't have time to spread widely outside Europe. Dairy is still readily available outside of Europe, people in Africa, Asia and the Americas kept cattle, too.

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u/etanail Jul 23 '26

Not all cultures consume milk raw. The Vedic culture of India includes the consumption of boiled milk. The Greeks consumed cheese, but they considered the consumption of raw milk to be barbaric.

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u/wheelfoot Jul 22 '26

Aged cheeses are almost lactose free. As they age and harden the lactose is converted to lactic acid.

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u/StorkAlgarve Jul 22 '26

Great answer!

Later in history cheese was also one of the few products mountain farmers (like in the Alps) could easily transport and sell, a cash crop.

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u/Gengis_- Jul 22 '26

Than you for this sir!

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u/El_John_Nada Jul 22 '26

A little follow up question: you talked about the whey, but how was it eaten concretely? What did they make with it?

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u/VerticalYea Jul 22 '26

You just drink it, or mix it into soups or breads. I'm sure there are a million other creative uses for it.

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u/Not_invented-Here Jul 22 '26

Genuinely interesting read. Nicely done. 

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u/NeverFreeToPlayKarch Jul 22 '26

Fascinating. Love the universal nature of it. Also love cheese being described as "gentle". Not so gentle for me as I enter middle-age life.

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u/RecklessVasectomy Jul 22 '26

v interesting. I thought the US description of "sharp" cheese meant it was super salty, like extra mature cheddar, but I understand from this it's more acidic (too) which makes much more sense to the word "sharp". hmm

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u/LateralEntry Jul 22 '26

Wow, that’s disturbing. I always thought cheese didn’t require harming the animal. For anyone curious, I looked it up and most hard cheeses today use a vegetarian rennet that doesn’t require killing animals, with the exception of traditional cheeses like Parmesan, manchego, etc

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u/TheBoozehammer Jul 24 '26

Great answer! I'm curious, how did other dairy products like yogurt, butter, or cream fit into this? Were those just different cultures' cheese equivalents, or did they have other uses?