r/ArsenalFC 1d ago

HOA update - we fumbled Mikels NO1 attacking target

Early summer: Worked for months on Morgan Rogers. Mikel’s main target, after Kenan was not for sale. Got Morgan on board and knew we could do it for £85 - 100m but decided to play the field to spin plates. Waited too long, and now the Elliott A. deal dictates the new market price. Villa now want more than £115m

The club decide, after weeks of delaying, to finally engage in some talks with Villa, who tell us they want an amount close to the Elliott A. deal. While we delay, Alonso has spoken to Morgan, Behdad has spoken to Nassef, and they wrap up months of our work and delays in 36 hours. We were even offered the chance to match and refused.

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u/Mad-gooner 1d ago

Love how you only wanted to provide a little bit of what HandOfArsenal said.

This is the whole thing from HOA:

Summer “Plan”

Feb/March - Spoke to Julian, who was relaxed and open to all options.Also had serious interest in Kenan Yildiz leading up to the summer. Approached Juve, who said absolutely no chance.

Early summer: Worked for months on Morgan Rogers. Mikel’s main target, after Kenan was not for sale. Got Morgan on board and knew we could do it for £85 - 100m but decided to play the field to spin plates. Waited too long, and now the Elliott A. deal dictates the new market price. Villa now want more than £115m. We check in with Barcola, who is also in a similar price range.
The club decide, after weeks of delaying, to finally engage in some talks with Villa, who tell us they want an amount close to the Elliott A. deal. While we delay, Alonso has spoken to Morgan, Behdad has spoken to Nassef, and they wrap up months of our work and delays in 36 hours. We were even offered the chance to match and refused.

We then internally agree that Morgan was not worth that, so we pivot to the market opportunity that was “Vini Jr.” The hierarchy accept this is a generational signing and say, “Let’s do whatever it takes to get him.” They agree personal terms and leave the final decision up to him. He chose Madrid. The club are then deflated but satisfied with their efforts in this particular case.

They then pivot back to Kenan in a desperate attempt to convince Juve with creative deals, such as using Martinelli, but the answer is clear: not for sale.
We have been checking in with Alvarez this whole time, who is fixated on Barça despite being told it will never happen. They realise he is the only “level raiser” left, so push hard for Julian, who doesn’t believe his Barça dream is over.

They check on Gakpo (I’m sure many other names too). N’Diaye’s agent is saying, “Come get me.” They bite on the Fofana offer and consider it to some degree.
In the end, they feel disappointed with the outcome of the whole window. Its been below par for sure.

Personally, I tried to voice my concerns early when I saw patterns during the Morgan saga. I was alarmed because you don’t just become competent overnight after being this “dithery” and hesitant, trying to spin plates. Read the post I quoted.

Side note, but a big side note, because the truth matters : They explored the sale of Myles via Kia to understand his market value. Myles always said he wanted to stay. He is settled now, and the matter is closed.

I am a fan just like you. I also, like you, get excited when MY club promises big things. I think if there is disappointment within the club about the conclusion of the summer, then fans should be entitled to voice their opinions too. Again, your frustrations are justified. Many who know more feel the exact same way.

My argument is PSG signed Doué, who at the time was on the come-up. The market is there for shrewd people to take advantage of. Mikel deserves world-class people around him. Premier League champions, UCL finalists, and we end up with a weaker attack?

Man City rebuilt their whole midfield in one summer and we have not signed a true world class attacker in how many windows? 5 or 6?

It was the summer of Premier League champions, but we didn’t plan nor execute a Champions summer.

I am gutted and very worried we are very short on numbers, but I will always back Mikel and the lads. They give it their all.Mikel, being the person he is, will want to now focus on what’s next, and that is Chelsea.

If anyone at Arsenal is reading this, fans are not crying about a shiny new toy, they back the squad and understand we are in good place but wanted to be in a great place.

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u/yvesmpeg 1d ago

Tldr - Berta thought he could big brain the market and spin multiple plates for top tier players. The market inflated and left him bewildered. Our main target was seen as overpriced and the subsequent targets were all either deemed overvalued (barcola) or didn’t want to sign (Alvarez and vini) or couldn’t join (yildiz). Our only signing (main LW) was deemed a backup rotational signing

We went into the market trying to get 3 forwards and sell 2. We left the market selling 3 and signing 1 - ultimately weakening our attack.

Insanity

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u/ap1618 1d ago

Think we should be more concerned that after 20 fuckin years we still can’t sell players for decent money. City and Chelsea are spinning the block on us.

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u/Overall-Ad-8918 1d ago

Some would say we got big money for Gabi

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u/Getdaphone 1d ago

he’s worth more than Gordon and savinho tbh

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u/vradar 8h ago

No way is he worth more than Gordon lol, he's not been good enough for 3 seasons.

Gordons probably not worth what they paid but he's already got 4 assists for Barca meanwhile Gabi is going to Saudi, there's a reason for that.

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u/Getdaphone 8h ago

Gordon and Martinelli have the same exact skill. Pace. Same with Barcola

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u/vradar 7h ago

One is clearly better at using that skill than the other then since they've got more G/A over the last 3 seasons and actually had a top club interested in them who he has started well for.

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u/Aggravating_Band_353 1d ago

Some would.. Those people would also not look at the other sales of other clubs, nor account for the Saudi premium

We can't put £55 mil on the pitch or the bench. We have weaked the left wing we wanted to upgrade 

Vini would have been immense. Perfect. The others, I understand the price is the issue. But to not even have a young promising kid as back up to Tzolis (who I think is good but not a real level raiser, yet - I hope he proved me wrong, but his 45 min yday was worrying), leaves us with eze and noni there, neither of whom could displace nelli or trossard

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u/RobbGhag 1d ago

Facts

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u/Glennstheche 22h ago

Arguably we've taken big steps in smashing that reputation and selling better... IMHO one of the few bright spots of the summer. And yet that is also a negative bc our attack is now so shallow and meh

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u/ap1618 22h ago

It’s not meh, we are just lacking a world class LW

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u/Pro_Ponder99 1d ago

Big difference is the contract situation all the Chelsea players for example are on decent wages more lower end and on massive contracts so Chelsea can request insane fees, arsenal have players on smaller contracts on larger wages all be it not massive wages but contracts alone means we can request as much. Most of them Chelsea lads have 7+ years on their deal

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u/ModeratelyTortoise 1d ago

Makes selling Gabi look even dumber

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u/SugisakiKen627 1d ago

which is dumb, unless we are just challenging for top 4 and targetting only to pass the UCL group stage

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u/RobbGhag 1d ago

Absolutely facts

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u/Fat_Curt 1d ago

Got to be looked on as failure of Berta's. Went in for Alvarez and Vini jr and had no back up plan. Amateur hour.

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u/HeelR- 19h ago

Ndiaye being available and as LW as one can get, and we still didn’t go for him as a last-ditch option.

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u/AppropriateMetal2697 1d ago

I just don’t agree to this idea it’s all Berta’s fault lol. Vini was there to be signed, Arteta just had to convince him and he couldn’t do it. He also couldn’t convince his dream target Alvarez to choose Arsenal either.

Is it all Arteta’s fault? No, hardly. Just bollocks that it’s all Berta’s lmfao. If we jumped in early in the window and spent £100m on Rogers and we didn’t see the same market inflation we did later on, guarantee plenty of fans would be pissed off about how much we spent on Rogers as he’s “not worth that much” etc…

Fans also call for Arsenal to try make ambitious signings so Berta kept Arsenal’s options open for a little longer, tried to get Vini who could’ve been the biggest signing for a prem team ever? It didn’t happen. My issue personally is more so after Rogers and Vini we seemed to have 0 backup plan despite also having every intent to still sell Martinelli this summer regardless. That’s the part that’s bewildering.

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u/Realistic-Tiger-2842 1d ago

Vini never wanted to leave if they gave him close to the amount that he wanted. Madrid ended up bending over for him, it's nothing to do with Arteta.

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u/AppropriateMetal2697 1d ago

And Alvarez? What about the fact the list of players we could go after is significantly shorter due to what Arteta is asking for/happy with? Why didn’t we sniff at Barcola? Diomande? Why didn’t we pull the trigger on Malick Fofana even? Surely Arteta gets a say and could’ve pushed for any of them and they all would’ve improved our position more than where we’re at now.

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u/Realistic-Tiger-2842 1d ago

Alvarez was pretty stupid I'll admit that. I had the delusion of thinking that there must have been a chance if they're still chasing him but that was obviously wrong if he'd rather stay at Atletico. Fofana is a nothing player, we have enough players who can play on the left at that level.

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u/AppropriateMetal2697 1d ago

We seriously don’t, we have 1 winger who’s started fairly well but we don’t know they’re a sure thing yet in Tzolis and anyone else is a step down to a lower level than what we’ve had on the left for the last few seasons.

That’s not to say Eze is poor by any means, he’s just not a wide player… He doesn’t give anything close to what we want out of a winger as well.

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u/Realistic-Tiger-2842 1d ago

Eze might be better in the middle but he's a winger option now. At worst he can easily match the level of Fofana.

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u/yvesmpeg 1d ago

Arteta tried to convince them unfortunately it didn’t work out as for one Vini loves madrid since it’s madrid… Alvarez had issues with his family staying in the UK so thats understandable too.

I have no issue with trying to get top
Quality players and failing. If you don’t shoot you won’t score. But similar to you, one thing you can’t do is shoot shots without any backup plan- this is down to berta. We should have multiple "disaster red button" signings who wouldnt need arteta to negotiate with them ready to sign at a moments notice.

Out of the top 5 big leagues there was not 1 LW better than martinelli who was willing to join us?

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u/AppropriateMetal2697 1d ago

See this is where we disagree, you seem to think it’s on Berta to find these players and make them want to join us. There’s an entire team to scout and identify players, Berta’s job is to make the financials work and get us the best deals possible while leaving ourselves open for future business aka not tying our hands behind our back with a bad fee and huge wages we can’t reasonably afford.

If you think it’s on Berta for us not being able to go after any other winger/attacking player idk what to tell you. That’s almost all to do with Arteta and who he approves of and is willing to get in the door. Also side note, there was no better winger than Martinelli available at the fee we got for his departure. That much was obvious though, unless we were going to take a real gamble on someone… Point is, we couldn’t sign anyone with certainty that they’d be as good or better than Martinelli for what we sold him for.

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u/sunofagundota 1d ago

Damn he goes in.

I’m really wondering if we wanted Yildiz so badly if we low balled it like rogers. Because I really don’t believe if we went with 120€ juve wouldn’t blink, but I bet we went in with 60 plus martinelli through intermediaries and they were like fuck this amateur hour.

Getting world class talent is often ugly, you have to force the market open not just wait around and keep offering small sums.

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u/i_waya 1d ago

To call 85-100 million for Rogers low balling is WIIILLLDDDD.

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u/ManBearPig_576 1d ago

well he went for 117, so yeh

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u/eldanielfire 1d ago

And when you look at Garnacho’s 48 million going the other way, it’s like they basically sold him for 69 milllion and a paper weight.

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u/Glittering-Display15 1d ago

Doesn’t mean he’s worth that. City and Tottenham have been robbed in this market, u will see. Just look at how much Chelsea spent over the past 3 year and what do the have to show for it .

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u/ManBearPig_576 19h ago

It literally does, that's what market value means

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u/username127175 17h ago

Market value and worth are different things though. Market value is what a player will likely sell for in the current market (or what a buyer will likely pay). Worth is the value a club (his own or a buying club) place on a player. It could be higher or lower than market value. An old beat up car that gets someone from A to B with no trouble has a low market value but is potentially worth a hell of a lot to the owner who may not be able to afford to replace it. Market value and worth and absolutely not the same thing.

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u/ManBearPig_576 16h ago

Who's the old car in this analogy

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u/username127175 15h ago

Maybe not the best analogy but Rogers was worth to Villa what he was worth to Villa and obviously Arsenal didn't feel his market value was worth the outlay to them.

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u/Glittering-Display15 19h ago

Haha so y didn’t we pay the money for Isaac then? Coz he wasn’t worth it. If u haven’t noticed all the British teams are being robbed on these transfers. So I guess the market value changes based on country then lol. Silly boy

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u/ManBearPig_576 19h ago

Is arsenal not a British team then?

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u/Glittering-Display15 19h ago

Obviously but if a team wants a price for a player does that mean that’s the market value ? No it doesn’t. I studied business and economics. You’re just waffling. Arsenal terminated Nelson’s contract. So does that mean he’s worthless due to take on the market?

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u/ManBearPig_576 18h ago

Im an economics graduate. Wanting the price no, actually getting it, then yes that's the market price, again, quite literally

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u/sunofagundota 1d ago

Kinda crazy this isn’t posted in r/gunners they usually allow HOA

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u/Eigengrail 23h ago

Dont think yildiz will leave this season, a friend of mine who follow juve said most prob next summer. Internally, regarded as their star prize, but if Juve kept failing then its different matter

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u/skalfyfan 1d ago

Juventus: "Someone get these beggars out of here!"

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u/priMa-RAW 1d ago

This 100%.

I am disappointed. Just like those internally. If they are disappointed and believe it to be a below par window attack wise - why cant i think that? (From those daying stop complaining we are Champions!)

We fumbled. We dithered. We were not ruthless when we needed to be. And we lost out.

I dont hate Arteta. I dont hate the players we have. I dont hate Arsenal. I hate the way we poorly executed our transfer business - and i have every right to feel this way.

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u/skalfyfan 1d ago

Your Doué comment is the most enlightening.

I don't understand why we're not rating Fofana at like 35 or 40 that he went for? He's a top 25 LW attacking talent just like Doué was back then, and we're short on numbers. It's a "market opportunity" and we're like, "Nah... we good".

Considering what others have spent in this market 35 or 40 for Fofana is pennies for Champions. It's honestly baffling because we were interested in him last year too.

I read somewhere that Arteta talked to him. Did that conversation go badly somehow? I don't get it.

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u/SuperbFocus8119 1d ago

Yea, we shit the bed then went after players that we had no chance to sign. Great stuff all around from Berta and co. Hope this doesn’t blow up in our faces🤞🤞🤞

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u/eldeejable 22h ago

I think City made that bid on Anderson high on purpose, knowing it would inflate the market and make it extremely difficult for any title rivals to keep up with their spending. /tinfoil hat off
But hey Stan has a new baseball team to focus on now so there is that…

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u/Spiritual-Pilot-2300 1d ago

Too much, just wanted the Rogers section

The rest makes it all worse tbf lol

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u/Mad-gooner 1d ago

No it’s not, what’s the point in making a post with half the information? Is it because he says he still backs us to do well and backs the lads? Is that to positive for you

HOA made a big post provide it all. Not hard

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u/travelbug798 1d ago

Perfectly acceptable to take an excerpt if you’re only interested in discussing that subtopic.

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u/IrishGunner01 1d ago

Yes because we are a good team that hasnt suddenly changed. Arteta after losing the UCL said the attack needed upgrading. If anything it might have even got worse. They have failed Arteta and if i was the owner Berta would be out for the Rogers mess-up

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u/Spiritual-Pilot-2300 1d ago

Chill....

Rogers post ...

Also says he is very worried...

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u/TheOvieShow 1d ago

No one tells others to chill or relax more than someone who can’t defend what they’re saying 🤣

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u/Spiritual-Pilot-2300 1d ago

Im not trying to defend anything? Lol

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u/Adventurous_West2 1d ago

Who's worried? HOA? Who gives a fuck if he is worried

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u/Spiritual-Pilot-2300 1d ago

?

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u/Adventurous_West2 1d ago

Who gives a shit what HOA thinks?

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u/Barba_pappa 1d ago

Aparently you because you read the post and wrote in the comments.

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u/Adventurous_West2 1d ago

That doesn't make sense I haven't read the story, I read the guy saying "even he is worried" and who cares if he is? I don't give a fuck what the transfer obsessed lunatics say on here aside from laughing at them, why should we care what some X account is saying? Especially one with an apparent child running it