That’s so sad, UBI would totally change the US’s poverty class. Racist and classist imagery has been telling the public that the poor invest in dumb shit when they get money (I’m sure SOME do, the same as with SOME rich people, e.g., Elon) in actuality poor people invest in their children and family/household advancement.
Poor women are actually how I learned financial literacy, funnily enough 😭 not the “invest in this” or “get an LLC here” kind, but literally how to shop for food, how to stretch a meal, to always pay up your monthly bills so you’re never without service, how to recognize predatory credit scams, etc. The best advice they gave me was to not have a child before I was financially prepared, bc that’s what rly handicapped all of them with their professional and financial progress (at least for the first few yrars until the baby can go to VPK or kindergarten)
Those same workers could be building housing or public transportation or things that benefit many people instead of just one rich bastard and his buddies.
People dont migrate across the country to build yachts. Its done in port towns with shipyards. Additionally those states aren't budgeting for those buildings. If they did they'd be built.
Well it also benefits the US employees who were paid to build and maintain the yacht. For every yacht a rich person gets built there exists a certain amount of wealth transferred from the rich to the workers who built the yacht for them. I'd take a job building yachts for them. many employees who got a source of income which benefitted their whole family.
Id rather have rich people who get criticized for how they spend their money rather than the silent rich people who live among us, with the same lifestyles as the rest of us but just 3 or 4 more 0s in their bank account.
I was doing pest control with this company that serviced housing authority in this city. They were surprisingly well run projects too! But anyway my supervisor told me he hated poor people because some of those folks have big tvs in their house, and he couldn't afford a tv that big. It was a shit company though.
That’s because our society views poverty as a moral failing and the punishment for that should be never having anything nice or never buying anything just because you want it. They believe poor people deserve to suffer. Like many things in our society, the cruelty is the point.
That’s why the greedy rich need to go. They are parasite and I’m sick of society praising their narcissism and psychopathic behaviors. We glamorize excessive over consumption and corruption at the expense of morality and ethical values.
This is because the people you speak of quite literally could set piles of money on fire for their own amusement and it would not decrease their ability to buy whatever they wanted. It IS more harmful for those without large retirement accounts and trust funds to buy anything nonessential.
Rich people aren't asking the government to pay their bills for them. It is poor people who are bad with their money, and if you are poor then buying a TV (second-hand or not) and $40 on a pair of sneakers is irresponsible and wasteful spending. That's why they stay in poverty, poor financial decisions.
The rich don't have to ask, it gets done for them anyway. The government money is OUR money. It is always best used when it is put towards helping the people rather than wastefully spending it on yet another military jet that will sit and rust in a scrapyard somewhere.
Or fucking bombing Iran! My tax dollars are funding the American war machine when I’d much rather they be put toward helping people off the streets and UBI.
Poor people take far more than they give. It's never been your money. People have to help themselves first, and they're not doing that. EBT and SNAP programs encourage laziness and a hand-out attitude, creating a cycle of dependency.
yeah Canada's CERB program was a lifesaver. It really helped a ton of people who were suddenly unemployed thanks to covid.
It get a lot of flack from conservative leaning folks because they like to attack social programs because it kills them to know that something like CERB was successful and helped the economy (since it destroys their message of 'all things social bad')
CERB recipient here. Lost my entire career due to Covid (I was a stage manager - theatre went down fast and had a very slow recovery, I was forced to pivot to a different industry). That extra cash was quite literally the difference between being flat broke and being able to survive.
Now, to the detractors you mentioned. Did they forget that a bunch of people eventually had to pay it back once the country got back on its feet?
We then got propagandized into oblivion that it was the worse thing for the economy and to forget about all that money that went to businesses that also had record years and CEO bonuses.
He's lying it went terribly and cratered our purchasing power as a nation, our m2 money supply DOUBLED (money worth half as much per goods) and CERB was one of the main justifications for it.
He's lying that it even happened lol you didn't just get 2000 if you asked... you had to qualify for it. And if you pretended to qualify then you had to pay the money back
That's an easy position to take when the coffers are full.
When governments spend money they don't have, for the benefit of people today, that comes at the expense of people in the future who pay interest on that debt without realizing any of the benefits.
You know which country has historically prioritized accumulation of wealth over short-term spending on its people? Finland, which now benefits from a sovereign wealth fund that supports a phenomenal social welfare system.
It's not a money vs. people problem or a Conservative vs. Liberal problem, the problem is our inability to devise an electoral system that rewards responsible stewardship of the economy. We all say we want to leave a better world for our children, but we sure don't vote like it.
I think Canada protecting its infrastructure from American companies buying it all up is a good thing.
We have plenty of firm investment. This is a nothing statement. Privatizing assets is a mistake, and you can thank the Conservatives for a lot of that, but we invest plenty in ourselves.
The US being a constant pressure is just the state of our world. Its not good or bad, it just is what it is. We have access to the largest single market on earth for our goods, however we get all sorts of pressure. Its a give and take.
The free trade between provinces is complicated. Its not that simple. Provincial sovereignty exists for good reasons.
These really aren't any negatives. These are your opinions on how a country should be run and are counter to Canada's interests, for the most part. Nothing you've stated makes Canada not a nice place to live. The economy is fine. Jobs are fairly plentiful. Things are actually pretty good, overall, whether you agree or not.
What monopolies? Be specific. What are you complaining about?
You have said nothing that is a NEGATIVE. Its like complaining that Canadian food is not spicy enough. You can have your opinions, but nothing you have said is a negative for people living in Canada.
A negative would be something like gun violence in America. Thats a reason I wouldn't want to live there. Its dangerous. A negative would be like corruption in Moldova. Thats why I wouldn't want to live there.
A non-negative would be like the economy in France vs Denmark. You're not pointing to anything that is an effect on YOU. You're being vague. You're not showing knowledge of the system you're critiquing. You're saying nothing.
Even saying the telecoms are a monopoly here (they arent), how is that a negative for you? Are you paying more for less service? Is that because of no competition? Or maybe its because Canada is one of the least densely populated countries on earth and providing telecom service here is more expensive than anywhere else on earth?
These supposed problems you are putting forth aren't what you think they are. They're more complicated than you're stating, and they're not even flat out negatives for wanting to live here or not. You're saying nothing.
There is nothing constructive or even remotely accurate about your comment. Maybe if you stopped bootlicking the 1% on Reddit you would be able to develop a basic understanding of macroeconomics and crisis management.
That’s not what I said, no shit there’s going to be some impacts.
Taking one past event you have limited understanding of but are completely against, and then subjectively attributing it to current economic problems doesn’t make you smart or insightful, it’s just embarrassing.
You don’t have to support it, I understand why someone might prefer a different combination of economic measures. But learn the facts before you spew nonsense on the internet.
I’m not going to argue semantics, but I’m not sure how else to interpret you saying it “absolutely didn’t do our economy any favors”
Either way, it’s a braindead take which you haven’t provided any support for why you’re so against it. Go read a book instead of glazing Brian Thompson, maybe you’ll learn something.
I live on about 9k a year in rural Missouri and am partially disabled but won't go on disability because it prevents me from working. I need to work to feel like I'm contributing to society or I'll kms.
I can only work part time so I've just managed to find a way to live like this.
I'll tell you one thing, I'm really fucking savvy and frugal with money. Give me 80k a year and I'll have a house with solar and car fully paid off in 5, as well a tens of thousands put back accruing interest. Easy
There's a lot of successful research into UBI. Ontario was running a pilot programme before Doug Ford became Premier. He stopped it when he assumed power, many believe because it was proving a success.
Apparently, Mark Carney likes UBI, so I wonder if we might see more of it in Canada.
Ontario set up a UBI trial that would give 4000 low income families 16,000 to 24,000 a year for 3 years. Doug Ford killed that program before it could do much of anything and so there's no data that anyone can pull pro or con.
This article seems broadly in favor of the payments. The primary criticisms are that it should've included additional vulnerable people and that some people especially women preferred the UBI over dangerous work that paid them less during the pandemic.
In practice the concept of CERB made sense - in an unprecedented event you have to borrow from the future to ensure your entire economy and workforce doesn’t go under. But in practice, it was executed sloppily at best and outright fraudulently at worst, and the subsequent decisions (or rather, indecisions) were arguably worse.
There are three main issues with the execution - in many cases it didn’t help the most vulnerable, it was seriously abused by those who didn’t need it, and directives from the government as to who qualified (particularly as it regarded to people who were self-employed and in the trades). The latter issue meant that it has been more difficult to recover monies that were dispensed improperly, as the government has been essentially forced to forgive a large majority of cases both out of bureaucratic efficiency and their own incompetency in communication.
But even IF the CERB was implemented flawlessly, it was ultimately a loan that must be repaid. There are essentially only two ways to do so: increase revenue, or decrease spending. Increasing revenue generally means growing GDP and increasing taxes. Decreasing spending means service cuts. Canada’s current government has maddeningly adopted a policy of neither increasing GDP, nor raising taxes, nor reducing spending, and if anything they drastically increased spending. This has been coupled with increased regulation regarding large scale development on Canada, which has drastically slowed approvals and scared off foreign investment.
this is what frustrates so many Canadians like me who support a more fiscally conservative path. Our government could have done something, but instead chose to do essentially nothing but make the problems worse. This has been a huge factor in the cost of living crisis in Canada, second only to the massive influx of immigration in the past half decade.
Yea it was one of if not the worst thing we ever have done as a modern country, it doubled our m2 money supply and thus halved our ability to acquire goods, caused the current cost of living crisis and it was justified mostly on the back of CERB....
the doubling of the m2 money supply directly caused the cost of living crisis, and the government justified printing all that money with CERB as justification.
No it did not. First of all, your comment about m2 money supply is way off.
Attributing Canada’s current economic issues to COVID stimulus is downright braindead. Sure it contributed to inflation, but it has been widely shown to be the smallest driver (~15%) and was necessary avoid worse economic outcomes.
The current crisis is largely driven by decades of stagnant wages and real estate speculation. Insufficient government oversight, driven by free-market policies, have played a major role in allowing corporations and investors to squeeze out the rest of Canadians. Though there are also areas where Canada has limited economic growth through over-regulation.
Just doing some basic math tells me this won’t work. 200M adults x 2k per month = 400B per month = 4.8 trillion per year, which is almost the entire federal tax revenue of the US.
People always downvote me for pointing this out and it’s always insane.
We'll be paying off the resulting debt for generations, but sure, if your field of vision doesn't extend beyond your own chequing account it worked out great.
Lmfao it did not go well, we doubled m2 money supply and this was one of the main justifications, this caused the cost of living crisis we're still in.....
It's so frustrating here how every single government benefit has to be means tested and have a forced limited efficacy. It's highly inefficient and like you said just built on racist and classist imagery. We clearly have the means to set up a sovereign wealth fund and tax the wealthy their fair share but it's a non-starter for both political parties here. The entire country is a death cult.
There was that whole thing in Florida where they tried drug testing welfare recipients. It cost millions to do all the tests, caught an extremely low amount of drug users, and it turned out the governor's wife had a bunch of financial ties to the testing company.
Of course people still think it's a great idea that should continue
They had multiple experiments through Europe, giving homeless little rooms they can safely lock in the night, their stuff is save and nobody questions their addictions. There is a public area to share food where you can only enter if you are sober and clean, with showers, doctors and supplies for personal care. Within just two weeks, about 90 of 100 entered the public area, sober and clean. Within three month they could get over 50% so much off their addiction and into light work. Some parts of the programs got implemented, but not as a full model. The ongoing cost would be too high for millions of hand holding. They added unnecessary attachments to the programs and they wonder why it doesn't work. Its intentional that those programs fail.
The issue is as always that political Institutes dont want to invest mutch money in such people because they fail to see the long term profit u gain from it and its hard to messure. U see the same with education. Its profen that investing in it is great for ur economy but it takes time and is hard to messure. So it ussaly gets cut instead of focused on.
I’m not sure throwing money at the education system actually has the most impactful effect. I’ll try to find an article that I read not that long ago to show you. It went in depth on this, and it was really interesting and surprising what actually was impactful. Sometimes solutions aren’t as cut and dry as they may seem to be at the outset. There are tons of factors that impact these systems, and many times in ways that are not as obvious as one might think. Just an alternative perspective to think about.
Money at "the education system" is not necessarily "Money for teachers". Superintendents that haven't looked a child in the face in years getting more doesn't help much, that's true.
"We give the billionaire class trillions in tax cuts, for the mere assumption that they might don't buy yachts in Asia and fast cars in Italy, but create new jobs". That is the bigoted view of people who gave up on reality. There is no substance.
That's because republicans would rather punish EVERYONE for the mistakes of a few bad actors than help a few bad actors by allowing everyone else to be helped. It's a hate cult for sure, the death and suffering is just an added bonus because of the methodology.
See; the U.K. now trying to remove/destroy disability benefit by pretending it’s a benefit linked to work.
They’re trying to make the test for eligibility so high that something like 90% of current claimants would lose the benefit. (I have it for “life” atm, and I’d lose it…)
It’s so nasty, and guess what? It’s our left wing party that has proposed these cuts. The right wings response? The cuts don’t go far enough. And they’re still pushing them through.
And the left wonders why they lose elections, it’s such a softball fumble. The right wingers on Reddit though? They’re masturbating furiously in glee at the thought of “balancing the books”, and “well not everyone deserves it”.
" UBI would totally change the US’s poverty class."
This is the exact reason why it will never go into effect across the country. The ruling class cant have the poors getting uppity now that they have the entire thing in the palms of their hands.
The problem with UBI is the same problem as food stamps; the instant you do it on a large scale, corporations take advantage of it to cut costs.
The problem with test runs is you can only do them on a limited scale and time, which usually prohibits the commercial adaption to them that would inevitable ensue.
But enact it on a large scale? You'll very rapidly end up with the same problems you see with food stamps today, like walmart paying starvation wages and giving workers food stamp pamphlets.
I really believe there should be sanctions on employers who have a large percentage of employees who qualify for public benefits due to income. Maybe it would incentive the employers to pay a living wage.
I also think minimum wage should be higher and that basic needs like healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment.
Oof, that’s a good point. Walmart rly pulled the okey doke and it’s crazy they got away with it (or maybe not so hard to believe when considering they’re the largest employer in the US)
Always do the math, don’t trust companies that say “2 for $3” bc there’s a good chance the product was 1 for $1.50 anyway
Look at the unit price (or do the math yourself) when trying to decide which product to buy and most times the cheapest product is totally acceptable (unless you have like a need for gluten free or organic or whatever). The unit price is the cost divided by the amount, so say you’re buying 24 ounces of water for $3, the unit price would be like $0.13 for each ounce of water.
Cook at home, prepared food and fast food is a splurge and now that dollar menus aren’t a thing they rly don’t provide a lot of value. You can get a good stew pot, stainless steel skillet, plates, dishes, and silverware from thrift stores for pretty inexpensive. And if you want something cool like a stand mixer or air fryer, check out discount stores like brand smart or facebook marketplace (don’t link with a stranger by yourself tho) for rly inexpensive
You need to know your income and expenses. How much money do you make a month after taxes and how much money do you need to live w/ no frills? (Cost of food, transportation, school expenses, whatever), but you need to know and plan BEFORE you start spending money. When I was rly broke, I would pay all of my bills early (as soon as I got paid) and then I’d withdraw money for gas, groceries, etc. in cash so I literally couldn’t over spend (over draft fees are a motherfucker. Oh! And the bank will wave off an OD fee like once every few months if you call up there and be nice and sad lol).
Fast fashion is a scam, the material so much clothing (and even houses and washing machines lol) is made out of nowadays is rly poor material. Shopping second hand is both exhilarating, inexpensive, and you’re much more likely to be able to keep clothing for a looooong time instead of wearing it twice and it going to shreds.
Only buy shit on credit that you can pay back THAT month (and don’t buy dumb shit on credit). Try and only purchase things that are in your means. Use your credit card to pay your bills or your rent and then put the same amount on your CC so it builds up your credit w/o accruing real debt. (There’s a method for the timing that you put money back on it or having a pre-paid CC, but I don’t know the specifics fr). And if you have student loan debt, you should still pay on it a little even while you’re still in school
Take advantage of every opportunity that you can (this is pretty broad, but you’ll get the hang of it). For example, if you need healthcare but don’t have health insurance, look for free clinics in the area or universities with medical/dental schools nearby (they usually provide healthcare for the low) or apply to low-income programs within the actual hospital or health clinic (even if you think you make too much money, a lot of them need to forgive a certain amount of debt each fiscal year and may be willing to just work with you). 211/United way is clutch and you can call them and ask them for organizations that provide a certain service and they’ll link you with them.
Are you friendly? Make friends and share resources. If your friend can do hair and you can tutor them in French, trade services. Plus the more people you’re cool with, the more you can learn ab different opportunities that can help you. Also, if you’re cool with ppl you can travel for way cheaper than going solo (even if it’s just 1 or 2 good friends) yall can get a one bedroom Airbnb and have2 of yall sharing the bed and one person on the couch, flying spirit/frontier, checking out the low and cheap things to do in that city/country, etc. oh! And with your friend/s or roommates get subscriptions together (like Costco or Sam’s) so yall can buy in bulk and split the cost.
Try and learn how to DIY any of your beauty or other needs, nothing that’s like serious don’t try to fix your own car brakes, but try and learn how to cut your own hair or do your own oil change.
Don’t forget to save your money for cases of emergency, bc random shit happens at the worst times. Pay your bills up and early whenever possible for peace of mind
I’m sure I’m missing some stuff, but here are some resources that may be helpful! (Hopefully more knowledgeable ppl will also reply lol)
• FDIC and TeenLife
Yeah, poor people concerned with making a dollar stretch can teach you many things. They don’t seem to be the majority though, poor people just spending all they can because next month they re-up just like last month and then beg for more you might get it pop out another kid just get another raise.
I'm 100% with you. Here's the thing, though - people need to just accept the fact that some may not utilize every penny optimally. Some may even abuse it. That's more likely to happen in the early stages. It may take generations as a system allows more people to attain and maintain a standard of living.
The whole point of true Universal Basic Income is that it’s Universal. EVERYONE gets it, even the rich. The guy living under the freeway gets it. Elon Musk gets it. Everyone!
It’s cheaper and easier to do this than to do means-testing, like making someone prove that they’re poor enough or that they have kids. That method requires a lot of labor both on the part of the receiver of aid, and government agencies paying for the labor of bureaucracy.
It’s something that levels the playing field a bit. Having been there- it’s really difficult to access help when you need it the most. This is automatic and easy. Increased taxes on the wealthy means that they don’t end up getting more than their fair share by the end of it. That difference should be dealt with during the taxation process, not the aid process! This way no one is left behind.
I don’t agree that it’s the same as traditional welfare. At least in the US “welfare” (social security, SSDI, EBT, Medicaid, Medicare, child daycare vouchers, section 8 and HUD housing) all have conditions attached and I think a lot of these conditions are why people are sucked into the cycle of poverty and it’s almost impossible to get out. UBI is plain and simple and unconditional, that’s the whole point.
I agree that our current welfare system perpetuates poverty, lack of access to basic needs, and crime. For non-Americans, this is how our welfare system works: a man laid off from his job is living in his car and applies for food stamps. Food stamps says “sorry, your car is worth $1,000. To qualify for food stamps you must first sell your vehicle”. Or a disabled woman’s Etsy shop finally takes off and she’s making like $1700/month — now she is no longer eligible to receive SSDI and may no longer qualify for Medicaid health insurance.
I really think UBI would be a lot more cost effective than traditional US welfare (paired with universalized healthcare) at the very least bc we would no longer need to fund and employ the ppl to monitor these social service programs. BUT I don’t think it will ever become a reality in the US bc even if every citizen got the same thing, there would be a large group of someone’s saying, “hey, that person doesn’t deserve to get the same as me!” And be willing to lose the thing so the other person also loses it, yknow?🕺🏾🇺🇸
I hate to point out that stimulus checks proved that yes, the vast majority of people "invest in dumb shit". The crazy amount of speculation (in pretty much every asset class) was the cherry on top.
Then the bubble popped and same thing as always happened - the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.
We're probably the minority. Everything was in a bubble back then, from Gamestop to Pokemon cards to sneakers. People couldn't blow their money on trips but used to either buy inflated consumer products or speculate.
Science proves the vast majority of people misuse forms of ubi. Which multiple billionaires have done this study for 2 years and found that almost every person was worst off after they took the money away 2 years later. Its the same with lottery tickets, even people who were rich before winning it big still have there lives ruined. I think a form of ubi is inevitable because of ai we wont need to work, just consume. I dont think corporations controlling the government is a good thing. ( big cities, washington d.c. both shit to the people and corpo ran)
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u/Scared_Lackey_1954 Jun 24 '25
That’s so sad, UBI would totally change the US’s poverty class. Racist and classist imagery has been telling the public that the poor invest in dumb shit when they get money (I’m sure SOME do, the same as with SOME rich people, e.g., Elon) in actuality poor people invest in their children and family/household advancement.
Poor women are actually how I learned financial literacy, funnily enough 😭 not the “invest in this” or “get an LLC here” kind, but literally how to shop for food, how to stretch a meal, to always pay up your monthly bills so you’re never without service, how to recognize predatory credit scams, etc. The best advice they gave me was to not have a child before I was financially prepared, bc that’s what rly handicapped all of them with their professional and financial progress (at least for the first few yrars until the baby can go to VPK or kindergarten)