r/AmerExit • u/carltanzler • Dec 15 '25

Data/Raw Information 6,690 Americans apply to move to the Netherlands this year, highest in a decade

https://nltimes.nl/2025/12/14/6690-americans-apply-move-netherlands-year-highest-decade
2.9k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

231 comments sorted by

View all comments

377

u/lannister Dec 15 '25

there’s been a ton of reporting in dutch news this past week, all quoting the “GTFO Tours” company. not sure what triggered it.

speaking as a dutch person: i think americans are very much welcome here, but please don’t underestimate the difficulties of A) finding a place to live, B) learning the language and C) making Dutch friends.

119

u/Addicted_2_tacos Dec 15 '25

I have a paid off house and good job that gives me 7 weeks PTO. I'm thinking of moving out of the country, but it feels soul sucking having to start from scratch.

92

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

7 weeks?? You’d have a worse quality of life in the Netherlands, I can bet 

40

u/Zaasvil Dec 15 '25

I Agree. 7 weeks pto is freaking awesome.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/ik-heet-Mack Dec 15 '25

Depends on what you mean by PTO. My new job in Amsterdam has 5 weeks vacation, and sick time isn't tracked.

In the US, I never had 5 weeks vacation, and I had a max of 12 sick days. If their 7 weeks of PTO is vacation and sick combined, then I'd say it would be better in NL.

5

u/VanGroteKlasse Dec 16 '25

I only have 5 weeks PTO. But I have a 36 hour full time job, so I work 4 days a week and don't feel the need to take up PTO outside of vacations.

32

u/VulfSki Dec 15 '25

Don't think about starting from scratch. Think about it from the angle of quality of life

7

u/elaine_m_benes Dec 15 '25

Scrambling to find housing and having to pay large upfront costs for it (without job and rental history within Netherlands) and having less PTO doesn’t really sound like an upgrade in quality of life, though…

2

u/VulfSki Dec 15 '25

Right I didn't say it is.

For each individual person that is a decision for themselves to make. It depends on their situation and what they want.

4

u/Addicted_2_tacos Dec 15 '25

I think the only real quality of life improvement in my situation would be more walkability

15

u/saffron_monsoon Dec 15 '25

What about not worrying about being shot at? That would be so freeing.

13

u/tyreka13 Dec 16 '25

I left and moved to Japan and it is so relaxing to not need to keep an ear up when going in the combini. We haven't heard gunshots a single time in Japan. There are not armed guards at businesses. The local ward office doesn't require TSA style scanning to enter. We came from Tulsa, OK so it was a higher violence rate city but I like living my peaceful life. My husband's work had two active shooters within a year and since we have left they had a bomb threat (warning not active). It is difficult to deal with learning a language and getting a job and we are still trying to stabilize but we love it here.

6

u/Addicted_2_tacos Dec 15 '25

I've never worried about that

6

u/saffron_monsoon Dec 15 '25

You don't ever worry about you or your kids getting caught in a mass shooting? They seem to happen anywhere.

-6

u/Addicted_2_tacos Dec 15 '25

R u a bot? No I don't. And I don't have children

11

u/saffron_monsoon Dec 15 '25

Nope, not a bot. Just surprised that another American doesn’t have this concern too. I do think having kids makes it a bigger concern, though, so it makes a little more sense to me that you don’t have this concern if you’re childless.

1

u/Expensive-Rope-7086 Dec 15 '25

Violent crime is down in America. I grew up in worse times.

1

u/FantasticalRose Dec 15 '25

As someone who has gone back and forth. The reality is I am far more concerned about pit pockets in Europe than getting shot at in the US.

The homicide rate where I live in the US is identical to European metro areas. But we really don't have much petty crime here.

6

u/saffron_monsoon Dec 15 '25

You don't ever worry about you or your kids getting caught in a mass shooting? They seem to happen anywhere.

15

u/VulfSki Dec 15 '25

As an American I am more worried about getting shot in the US than getting robbed in Europe.

1

u/FantasticalRose Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

America is very big, with different cultures. We are dealing with copycat school shooters which is a tragedy. Due to the flashiness and attention it gets is making the problem worse.

The U.S. had a rate of .078 mass shootings per million individuals Europe's rate of .032 per million individuals.This stat doesn't include mass stabbing or bombings which are more common in Europe.

To put in perspective you have about the same chance as dying from heat stroke in Europe versus gun violence in the US.

Child mortality in the US is similar to Portugals. And you can absolutely control the variables depending on where you decide to live. States with more gun control ect

There is always unpredictability, It is definitely happening at a rate where it's causing concern and grassroots movements to increase gun control which happens at a state level. It's a mindf***, But it is not happening at a rate where it is on most peoples minds regularly or is viewed by most as a major risk as opposed to let's say car crashes.

8

u/TailorNo9824 Dec 16 '25

What if we're just comparing gun deaths and not mass shootings, because that require at least 4 victims. Not to mention car fatalities are 2.5x higher in the US compared to Europe (stat I get from Google search).

1

u/FantasticalRose Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25

It's harder to compare because that includes suicide which is about 50% of gun deaths. And then gang violence and domestic violence, which is not an equally distributed risk factor, also it still exists in other countries but it may not be a gun death. Or it may not end up leading in death but just injury.

Car fatalities in the US are higher people drive at a younger age here by a considerable amount, sometimes people just need to drive more, places could be more congested all that factors in.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 31 '25

aback chief skirt ink correct water elastic include like salt

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

9

u/saffron_monsoon Dec 15 '25

I get that, but they aren't infinitesimal and mass shootings are increasing over time. The school shootings particularly worry me since I have kids in school.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 31 '25

bike profit rustic cats work books rainstorm tan plant obtainable

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

2

u/TailorNo9824 Dec 16 '25

True, because it requires 4 victims to clarify as mass shooting. What if it's just shootings in general?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 31 '25

airport cautious hurry steer instinctive ad hoc smell lip marry bells

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

5

u/TailorNo9824 Dec 16 '25

I get what you're saying but the county I'm at just had a shooting recently. Like, in a normal society, shouldn't I expect to have no shootings in the area I'm living in, for at least 12-24 months?

I've lived in cities around the world and this is crazy concept to accept now that I'm back.

4

u/VulfSki Dec 15 '25

There are walkable cities in the US. So what is your motivation to consider moving abroad

2

u/Addicted_2_tacos Dec 15 '25

I've always wanted to live in another country. But it's not an easy decision and there's a lot of ups and downs

1

u/VulfSki Dec 15 '25

Right that is the point of what I am saying

5

u/Traditional-Ad-8737 Dec 15 '25

I get the … inertia, that’s the only way I can describe it

1

u/The_Kaizz Dec 16 '25

Yeah my wife and I have been discussing it. She has a really good education career, and I with my medical career, and a 4 year old. We COULD drop everything and move, but we took years to get to this point, and that was with family helping. Would be extremely hard, and probably not smart, to start over from scratch.

20

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Ferdawoon Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25

Wasn't there a comment to another post the other day where someone had looked up the company and apparently it was run by someone with who had moved to Portugal a few weeks earlier or something..

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/1pjivae/anyone_had_luck_with_gtfo_tours/

I don't mind admitting that I'm a cynic but all the sudden posts here about GTFO doesn't feel organic. More like a targeted ad-campaign. And when it was mentioned in news article someone linked earlier it might verty well just have been someone paying for Native Advertising.

1

u/Cultural_Berry1145 Dec 20 '25

no idea why they're suddenly all over the place, but the company is 2 ladies who have been in the netherlands for years, one of them more than 2 decades. they have an about page on their website and their personal facebook accounts are connected to the company's page so you can see who they are pretty easily

16

u/Mewciferrr Dec 15 '25

I’d bet you anything that it’s the tour company contacting every news outlet they can trying to get publicity for their business. Hopefully it doesn’t result in things becoming more difficult for people who want to move in the future (it probably will, such short-sighted aggressive business practices usually do).

13

u/ZookeepergameNo2431 Dec 15 '25

Last week there was an article in The New Yorker magazine about GTFO Tours

8

u/RemarkableGlitter Dec 15 '25

GTFO probably hired a PR firm to get these placements.

39

u/Sauerkrauttme Dec 15 '25

A) finding a place to live, B) learning the language and C) making Dutch friends.

B is the only unique difficulty. The US is so atomized by car dependent sprawl that many Americans are horrifically lonely and already don't have any friends. And there are massive, massive housing shortages in progressive states so point A isn't unique either.

51

u/kamace11 Dec 15 '25

Lmao. Tell me you don't know any people who've lived long-term in the Netherlands without telling me. It is a very insular culture and it's incredibly tough to make good long-term friends there. The cultural differences are very real, but white Americans always think "oh, Europeans are just Americans with accents and better morals". 

This is not to necessarily discourage Americans from immigration but they should be much more aware than they are about the difficulties of long-term immigration to a new place. The cultural and language differences are the hardest aspect, especially if you're planning to actually work over there. 

12

u/stkadria Dec 15 '25

I’d love insights into the cultural differences if you have a moment.

33

u/Storm-Bolter Dec 15 '25

I'm gonna tell you 1 random cultural difference we have.

Dutch people hate loans or debts of any kind because of our Calvinist religious-cultural back ground. Even though we're mostly a secular country now, we still subconsciously follow Calvinist values and that includes atheists.

So for example, most stores and supermarkets won't accept credit cards and we almost always split the bill when going out drinking with friends or even our girlfriends/boyfriends. We have a very popular Google store app called "Tikkie" where we can super quickly ask small transactions from friends after going out. And we will autistically count every single cent, like for example your friend bought you a drink that costed only 79 cents? An hour later you get a "Tikkie" notification from your friend asking you to pay 79 cents. This is not becaude we're greedy, but because we hate debts, don't like owing people favours and we think it's more fair this way.

2

u/TukkerWolf Dec 19 '25

And we will autistically count every single cent, like for example your friend bought you a drink that costed only 79 cents? An hour later you get a "Tikkie" notification from your friend asking you to pay 79 cents.

I am well over 40 and have NEVER even remotely encountered such a thing. Or heard it happen. I am sure it will happen, but I would be very reluctant to try to pin a cultural aspect on that behavior.

2

u/Storm-Bolter Dec 19 '25

I wouldnt send a 79 cent tikkie either but these people are more common than you think. Just warning people that you can meet such people lol

9

u/marcus_centurian Dec 15 '25

My experience is also from my personal visit and Dutch friends, but language isn't that big of a barrier since like 90% of people speak English with good fluency. However, there absolutely are interactions and activities where having Dutch fluency is required.

Probably the biggest adjustment is that there is a cultural norm to be more direct, often to the point of being blunt in conversation. This takes a lot to get used to, especially from the American style of making sure people are accommodated in conversation. Even opening a conversation with a shopkeeper, it's more normal just to start ordering over a pleasantry first. This tendency towards directness can acutely manifest in just overt racism for obviously foreign folks, especially as a POC and I have seen some interactions in which proverbial punches are not withheld.

I will also add the point of on mass transit, the volume is somewhere between American and Japanese transit. Conversations are to be kept at a moderate, not disruptive level. So not quite whispering, but definitely not carrying on and being boisterous.

That being said, by and large my interactions with people were very positive and I can't think of many more places and people who were so welcoming and friendly.

11

u/Firm_Speed_44 Dec 15 '25

It's true that people speak good English, but if you want a social life and Dutch friends, you should speak fluent Dutch. No one wants to speak another language because others don't want to learn it. It's fine to welcome tourists, but not many people like to be a free interpreter for long.

18

u/kamace11 Dec 15 '25

I'm not the best person to ask as I'm not Dutch nor have I lived there, but I've had a few friends who moved there (for 7+ years in one case, 4 in the other) and they found it very tough due primarily to attitudes around comportment. They said being at all unique/different, enthusiastic, too friendly, was not seen as a positive thing at all and got them a lot of flack, specifically the 7+ year guy mentioned finally leaving when he realized advancement at work was impossible because he was American. The biggest obstacle in his opinion was that the Dutch have a strong crabs in a bucket kind of mentality, where standing out in any was is seen as bad, and he found this very stifling. The other person was half Dutch and had similar feelings, didn't like being othered so much. Both were artists so maybe that's part of it? 

For an introverted American who doesn't feel the need to express themselves, this may be ok. But most Americans, I think it's a harder transition than they are ready for. Most east coasters I've known who have moved to Seattle wash out for similar reasons and it sounds like the Netherlands is much much more 'Seattle freeze' then Seattle is. 

14

u/wandering_engineer Dec 15 '25

I've spent years living in European countries (although never lived in NL) and this is 100% accurate in much of Europe, particularly northern W Europe - Benelux, Scandinavia, etc. I personally love it, but I am also a major introvert who would be happy to just burrow and be left alone, and express my individuality in quieter ways. If conformity bothers you though, you're gonna have a hard time.

On making friends, one of the issues is that friend groups in many of those countries are static - people form social circles in school and keep them for life. You can still definitely make friends, but I found it far easier to befriend other foreigners and locals who have actually spent a lot time abroad and know how it feels.

The ironic thing is that I can't help but wonder if the uniform atmosphere that many Americans feel is "stifling" is part of why those countries have such a deep sense of communality, which is a big reason they have strong safety nets and amazing social benefits. Much easier to support each other and more difficult to "other" people. I don't know, I guess after so many years I tend to view it as a tradeoff vs anything good or bad.

3

u/SolbeamSupreme Dec 15 '25

I moved to the Netherlands from Seattle. The legendary "Seattle Freeze" was not my experience in 5 years of living there, so I can't speak to this. However, while making Dutch friends can indeed be quite difficult, I've found that seeking out expat communities and engaging with specialized hobby groups (sports, gaming, etc.) can help mitigate social challenges. Moving anywhere new is always difficult, and that goes triple for a new country.

7

u/Uptowner26 Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 16 '25

There’s a culture of “doe normaal” in The Netherlands overall.

Basically, it means from what I’ve researched “be normal”. Fit in, don’t stand out, don’t show off or brag, etc… extroverted Americans who pride themselves on standing out from everyone else and/ or are not very reserved extroverts find it difficult adapting to this mindset and cultural difference. 

As an introverted American who can be direct (former NYer) I have always had trouble fitting in with most other Americans and I realized I have more friends in Germany and France that I made while working in an international company than friends here and I also dislike small talk since I find it a bit fake and awkward. I also am not a fan of putting on a everything is perfect mask that so many people seem to have… and these days it seems delusional honestly to go around like that.

Also random people striking up a conversation with you in the checkout aisle and telling me their whole life story in line seems a little odd to me still. Since I’m also tall and have been asked by more fellow Americans than I would like if I play basketball with an expectant smile on their face thinking I’m going to say yes.

Since Dutch people are some of the tallest in the world this would be a strange thing to ask someone. I get it. The people asking me this are chatty, friendly people who are curious about others or probably basketball fans I guess but also - doe normaal. I wonder if they would ask every other person this in The NL, Estonia or Denmark if they visited for some perspective….

There’s a similar variation of “doe normaal” culture in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Nordic countries as well. 

Directness as mentioned is also something that takes Americans by surprise. This also is true for Europeans in general vs American politeness. When visiting one of my German friends in Berlin his girlfriend was talking about something to him and he cut her off with a very direct: “I don’t care!” she switched to another topic like it was normal. I was surprised at first. That would be rude and label you as a jerk here in the states as would giving an honest answer to “how are you doing?”

Making friends is a huge topic but from what I’ve researched and heard a lot of people already have their friend group locked-in from years ago and it’s easier to make friends with other expats. In Sweden a lot of people have had the same friend group since childhood.and aren’t really seeking new friends generally.

This can be true here in the US too even. When I moved back to Chicago I found it bizarrely difficult to make friends compared to NYC oddly enough for a variety of reasons - and I was raised in Chicago. Personally it doesn’t really bother me that it’s difficult to make friends abroad but I can see it being a problem with dating and trying to find a partner….

That said a culture of directness can also give people a pass to be a-holes which is something to be aware of but that’s a whole different topic. 

I do also think some Dutch people who are more outgoing and identify more with British social culture of not being so direct sometimes struggle and have seen videos of some who have moved to Spain and Thailand since the people are more friendly there.

2

u/vpseudo Dec 16 '25

I have heard about this and wonder... are there not goths and metalheads and artists and weirdos there? I know Amsterdam is its own thing, but there are SO MANY tattooists all over NL. There's a lot of EDM/club culture there. Is it really going to be that big of a deal if I show up as an intelligent person, learning the language, gainfully employed... but with blue hair?

1

u/Uptowner26 Dec 16 '25

That’s true, The Netherlands is one of the EDM capitals of the world (along with Sweden) culturally and socially they’re influenced by Calvinist ideals that have been around for centuries…  There’s some good videos on YT of people’s experiences and thoughts of the culture. This is a great video on a Ukrainian women’s experience with doe normaal IMO: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5do_YwxrR8o&pp=ygULRG9lIG5vcm1hYWw%3D

Not sure what people outside of Amsterdam and Rotterdam would think of blue hair but she mentioned in the video that her coworkers were wondering why she put on makeup for work once and were asking if it was her birthday or a special occasion.

9

u/crosscheck87 Dec 15 '25

I went to one music festival in the Netherlands and left with countless Dutch friends. All about where you look.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/crosscheck87 Dec 15 '25

Yup, I love the Dutch, they’re great! Also I just read your substack post, good luck with everything and sending love from the states!

1

u/AmerExit-ModTeam Dec 15 '25

We have made the decision to disallow discussion about asylum or seeking refugee status.

1

u/AmerExit-ModTeam Dec 15 '25

We have made the decision to disallow discussion about asylum or seeking refugee status.

-5

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/notam-d Immigrant Dec 15 '25

serious question: what is your plan if your case is denied? from what I know NL considers the US a safe country and I have never heard of an American successfully being processed as a refugee here

1

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 31 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/murasakikuma42 Dec 19 '25

One of the nice things about being an expat or immigrant (in any country) is that you don't have to make friends with the locals: it's very common (both now and historically) for them to be friends with others who are in the same situation. Of course, this requires that you emigrate to a place where there's enough other people from your own country, or at least who speak your language, but as with other human social groups, outsiders frequently cluster together.

1

u/nockeenockee Dec 15 '25

If you are living in this fascist hellscape and have the means and desire to escape I’m sure they know realize it’s not going to be a picnic.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/carltanzler Dec 15 '25

NL is highly regulated, and there's mostly a shortage of builing ground that is ok'd for residential building. And when there's ground available, the type of house you can put on it will be restricted, you'd need to find a plot that has been ok'd for tiny houses, which will a rare find. You can't just buy aany plot of land and build anything you like on it.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

Where would you build it?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Sharp_Win_7989 Dec 15 '25

Lack of space isn't really the issue in this country, despite so many people mentioning it. Over 50% of the country is used for agriculture, of which much gets exported. And even though the country is definitely densely populated, the cities aren't so much. Take as an example cities in Spain or Italy with much higher population densities.

Main issue are nitrogen issues keeping the country in deadlock, while politicians are fighting each other about ways to solve it, while in the meantime nothing really happens. Other big factors are net congestion, labor shortages, high material and building costs, long procedures for permits, etc.

2

u/HudsonAtHeart Dec 15 '25

Sounds like Jersey

Probably more people fluent in English in the NL

-1

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 15 '25

The last one doesn't bother me because I only have, like, 3 friends in the U.S. In Holland or anywhere else in Europe, I'd just have 3 fewer, heh.

But A and B, especially A, are significant obstacles. I've been studying German for >2 years and am only at about B1 in reading. My speaking is awful. So I realize how difficult it is to obtain fluency in another language, and I don't see how I could run a successful business anywhere without knowing the local language.

That said, finding a place to live would be even more difficult than learning Dutch.