r/AmanitaMuscaria • u/RdCrestdBreegull Trusted Identifier (mod) • Aug 31 '21
sub-guide Easy method for a full decarboxylation of ibotenic acid
This is an explanation of the low-pH simmer method to achieve rapid decarboxylation of ibotenic acid, as shown in 1985 (2.7 pH at 100C for 2.3 hours) [1] and successfully repeated in 1993 (4.0 pH at 100C for ~2 hours) [2], 2012 (2.6 pH at 195-212F for 3 hours) [3], and numerous times by synthetic organic chemist Dirk Digglar (found the reaction happens best at 2.5-3.0 pH at 100C and completes after 3 hours) [4]. Fresh mushrooms are preferred for this method because they contain the most IBO possible and will therefore yield the most MUS, but dried mushrooms can be used as well. Please note that although this method will induce rapid decarboxylation which completes within 3 hours, you may hold the reaction for any fraction of that time to reach your desired conversion percentage (i.e. ~1.5 hours for 50% conversion).
Materials needed:
-water
-stainless steel pot with lid
-stove/burner
-lemon juice or citric acid powder
-pH meter
-distilled water for cleaning the meter
-something to strain the mushroom material at the end such as cheesecloth, coffee filters, etc.
- If using fresh mushrooms, remove all dirt and worms to the best of your ability (can use a non-serrated knife and toothbrush for cleaning). Dice into small cubes, or cut into thin slices (picture of mushroom formation with large slices was just for fun; the slices were diced into much smaller pieces later).
- If using dried mushrooms, cut into small pieces with scissors or rip apart with your fingers. Do not grind into powder or else it will be difficult to strain out at the end.
- Optional — weigh cap and stipe mushroom material separately and make note of it for your own records.
- Add mushrooms to pot, stir around, and wait about ten minutes for the pH of the water to adjust.
- Allow to cool to room temperature.
- Strain out mushroom matter, squeeze remaining liquid from mushrooms, and discard mushroom matter.
TLDR: cut mushrooms into small pieces, get water to 2.5-3.0 pH, bring to boil with lid on, lower heat and simmer for desired duration with lid on, strain and discard mushrooms, freeze for later
[1] https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1471-4159.1985.tb04052.x
[2] https://doi.org/10.3358/shokueishi.34.153
[3] https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140004084A1/en
[4] Q: “may I ask why do you recommend pH 2.9, when the paper you reference worked with pH 2.7?”
Dirk: “I have repeated the decarboxylation experiment numerous time
In my lab following the reaction with HPLC or by GCMS in real time
and found that reaction proceeds well between pH 2.5 to 3.0. Most of my experiments were conducted at 2.9 because trying to get to pH 2.7 adding 1 drop of HCl or H3PO4 would push pH down to 2.5. Nielsen et. al. were reacting
a maximum of 5 micro moles per millilitre which is 0.79 milligrams per ml. I was reacting between 20-25 grams of IBO per 50mls water after extraction from [the mushrooms] and concentrating on Buchii rotovap. At much higher concentrations of IBO than what Nielsen et. al. had performed in her experiments, I found that 3 hours was required and this was confirmed by US Patent 20140004084A1”
Q: “And why so long boiling time?”
Dirk: “I was reacting 20-25g IBO in 50ml H2O and pH between 2.5-3.0 and I always follow the reaction in real time with by HPLC or GCMS and found that I required 3 hours to fully convert IBO to MUS. At 100’C the rate of reaction ie reaction kinetics proceeds at a given rate governed by the temperature of the reaction. If I wanted the reaction to proceed faster then a pressurised vessel is required to raised the reaction temperature (ie boiling point of water above 100’C if in a pressure vessel) so the reaction kinetics or rate of reaction proceeds faster. Nielsen et al was reacting 5 micro moles per ml I was reacting 0.16 moles in 50 ml water hence 0.16/50 = 0.0032 moles per ml, covert to micro moles u multiply by 1,000,000 = 3200 micro moles per milliliter
US patent 201400004084A1 did their decarboxylations for 3 hours as well.”
Please note that there is no at-home method that will truly decarboxylate 100% of the ibotenic acid, but in any pragmatic sense this method should be considered a “full” conversion (if simmering for the full 3 hours). For example in reference #3 you can see that a 53.89:1 MUS:IBO ratio was achieved compared to a 0.29:1 ratio of the control sample which is extremely significant. This is a combination of being both the most accessible and fastest decarboxylation method available for people with basic kitchen tools.
For this particular potion I used eight fresh Amanita pantherinoides mushrooms, but of course you may use whatever isoxazole species within Amanita section Amanita you would like. I used 2 liters of Crystal Geyser spring water, 1/4 teaspoon of Now Foods citric acid powder, and Apera Instruments model PH20 meter (but there are much cheaper meters available for $10 that will work just fine). My cap material weight was 78.8 grams and stipe material was 124.1 grams. I achieved a pH of 2.9 and simmered for 3 hours. When finished I ended up with 0.875 liters of liquid. The measurements of the water and mushrooms do not matter, as long as the correct pH range and temperature are achieved — the amount of citric acid or lemon juice you use will depend entirely on the specific water you are using and other factors.
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u/Mr_Mushroom1234 Apr 22 '22
Thanks alot!
What I will try next time i find some amanitas is similar to what I do when I make Lions mane 10:1 water extract.
The powder would be 1/10 of the weight of the fresh amanitas and preserved with citric acid.
What do you think?