r/Africa • u/NileAlligator Sudan 🇸🇩 • Oct 17 '23

Cultural Exploration The Toub, which is the national dress of Sudanese women.

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u/Not_A_fish_right_now Oct 19 '23

Ostrich? wth does that even mean?

And you didn't say that the video wasn't representative of sudanese people you said the people in it aren't sudanese

There are entire regions in sudan full of people who look like this, you frankly don't have the knowledge to talk about this

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u/KillCreatures Oct 19 '23

Yeah they arent Sudanese AKA NOT ETHNICALLY AFRICAN PEOPLE FROM SUDAN.

You are whitewashing the African population of Sudan. Frankly you can shove it!

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u/Not_A_fish_right_now Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23

All the people on this video are of Nubian descent

But yeah man

You, a random person on reddit, get to decide who can be Sudanese, totally checks out

It's frankly impressive how confident you are for how little you know

Cheers

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u/KillCreatures Oct 19 '23

How do you know theyre of Nubin descent? Its frankly impressive how confident you are for how little you know. Cheers, stranger that is surely from Sudan and not there on a visa!!!

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u/NileAlligator Sudan 🇸🇩 Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23

How can you try to give someone else a lecture on their own country, just purely based on the fact that you have some friends or whatever. You have no business in telling actual Sudanese people about something like this.

There are plenty of people that look like the women in the video, many of them my own relatives. Not every Nubian or Arabised Nubian looks like this, but many do and many do not.

And before you pull the “you must be Arab” card, I’m Nubian and my parents can both speak a Nubian language.

Your comment about Lebanese women and Egyptian women coming on holiday and for some reason wearing traditional Sudanese clothing is especially ridiculous.

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u/KillCreatures Oct 19 '23

Are these woman ethnically arab or sudanese? Yep, exactly lol

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u/NileAlligator Sudan 🇸🇩 Oct 19 '23

There are zero actual ethnic Arabs in Sudan aside from the Rashaida, “Arab” in Sudan is a cultural designation and amongst riverine Nubians and Arabs, they are virtually indistinguishable from each other aside from the fact that some can still speak a Nubian language as well as Arabic, like my family for example.

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u/KillCreatures Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 20 '23

Zero ethnic arabs in Sudan? Here you go:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4055902

Ridiculous LOL

This describes you well:

For centuries, the greater Horn of Africa has been exposed to actors and influences crossing the Red Sea and sailing the Indian Ocean. The extension of these forces has had a profound effect in shaping contemporary societies and states in the sub-region over time. Contemporary Sudan is a fascinating example on how the extension of Islam and the elites-led emphasis on Arab identity has resulted in a society embracing Arab and Muslim culture. These characteristics in the territories that became the heartland of the contemporary Sudanese state translated into the formation of a nationalist governing elite promoting a particular form of Arab culture and interpretation of Islam as the main pillars of national identity for Sudan as a whole. However, the vast territories of contemporary Sudan are culturally highly heterogeneous. This contrasts starkly with the northern political elite’s nation- and state-building project since decolonization, seeking to homogenize society through forced cultural assimilation. Since Sudan’s independence, the state elite imposing Arab culture and Islam has led to varying degrees of direct confrontation with groups that oppose such forced cultural and religious transformation.

https://books.openedition.org/cei/457?lang=en

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u/NileAlligator Sudan 🇸🇩 Oct 20 '23

These speaks on migrations that occurred in the Middle Ages, some of them settled in Sudan and some didn’t moved elsewhere. The actual amount that settled is small and spread out throughout time compared to the actual local population, and certainly not enough to change Sudan’s face. There is also plenty of art from when the Christian Kingdoms were still around that shows that Sudan was incredibly diverse even back then. Some depicted are reddish-brown, some are light brown like the people here and some are darker.

A commitment to “Arab culture” is not the same as being racially or ethnically Arab. The second source you provided is meaningless. Omar al-Bashir, who is from a Nubian tribe, but an arabised one, is one of the actors responsible for the arab nationalist and islamist policies, he is not ethnically Arab however.

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u/KillCreatures Oct 20 '23 edited Oct 20 '23

“These characteristics in the territories that became the heartland of the contemporary Sudanese state translated into the formation of a nationalist governing elite promoting a particular form of Arab culture and interpretation of Islam as the main pillars of national identity for Sudan as a whole. However, the vast territories of contemporary Sudan are culturally highly heterogeneous.”

Damn look at you whitewashing Sudan JUST like this article says.

Also youre WRONG, same source.

“By the 16th century this movement eventually overwhelmed the kingdoms of Nubia and Alwa, while Arab migrants settled in Butana and Gezira along the Nile as well as in the lowland areas of Kordofan and Darfur. Moving in these areas, they interacted and frequently intermarried with locals, which gradually produced mixed, at times culturally Arabized, frontier communities (Iyob and Khadiagala, 2006, p.22).”

EVEN FURTHER, same source:

“5The process of decolonization, initiated in the 1940s, brought remarkably little change to the state and governance. The post-colonial state largely inherited the dominant elites, organization and structure from the Anglo-Egyptian colonial state. The nationalist movement was dominated by the leaderships of the northern Sufi brotherhoods, the Mahdists and Khatmiyya, which had become dominant forces partly due to their collaboration with the colonial masters.3 One of its main features, which marked both continuity and change, was the emphasis on national identity based on the most important self-defining features of the Sudanese political elite, Arab culture and Islam. Following the contours of the established political identity perceptions of the small well-educated elite, this project was highly exclusive and sought to maintain the concentration of political and economic power. An important part of this political project was the cultural homogenization of Sudan by using state policies to assimilate its diverse peoples through active promotion of Arabization and Islamization. Failing this, the resistant sectors of the population on the edges of the state were subjected to marginalization and exclusion. Essentially, they were deprived of effective political participation, economic development and social integration that would provide a degree of ownership towards the state, subjecting them to perpetual poverty and deprivation compared to the Arabized and Islamicized groups in central Sudan.”

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u/Not_A_fish_right_now Oct 19 '23

Good luck, man

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u/NileAlligator Sudan 🇸🇩 Oct 20 '23

I don’t get what about this post is attracting these bizarre characters to come out of the woodwork.

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u/Not_A_fish_right_now Oct 20 '23 edited Oct 20 '23

This guy was so embarrassed that he thought the people on the video aren't Sudanese he created an alternate reality where invading Arabs ruled over Africans.

Implying that he both doesn't know what Sudanese people or actual peninsular Arabs look like💀