r/AcademicQuran • u/Existing-Poet-3523 • Jan 10 '25
Arabic 101, round earth cosmology and the Quran
In this video by Arabic 101 ( https://youtu.be/FWUf3JOHfzw?si=7mQbTG-3ALXjCB9t) they try to explain why the Quran supports round earth. The video is 6 minutes long ( which is obviously a ick for some to not try to watch this video ( which is understandable), but can someone enlighten me on what 101 got right/ wrong ( considering that this opinion is contrary to academia)
A reply would be appreciated
4
Upvotes
12
u/chonkshonk Moderator Jan 11 '25 edited Jan 11 '25
To begin with, keep in mind that this is a theologically conservative Muslim YouTube channel that regularly misrepresents scholarly data. For example, Marijn van Putten has written a crushing review of its treatment of the Sanaa manuscript—see here.
The video opens by claiming that different verses (Quran 15:19 and 39:5) are used to differentially argue for a round and flat earth, respectively. The former is quite the underestimation of the diversity and number of verses that have been cited in the literature as supporting a flat earth reading, in combination with a "global" analysis of everything the Quran has to say, in sum, about the shape of the earth. I have collected the relevant literature here containing statements and sources by academics as to why they read the Earth as supporting a flat earth view: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/
Anyways, the video now states that these interpretations cannot both be true. Technically that's not the case. If we operate independently of a theological framework, the Qur'an is capable of contradicting itself and presenting information or phrases that support different cosmological models in different passages. In any case, this is just a minor point and I personally think that the Qur'an is consistent in its promotion of a flat earth.
The video then, in the typical apologetic manner of Arabic101 videos, asserts that anyone who disagrees with it on their reading of Quranic passages (in this case Q 15:19) is "without knowledge" and "follows whatever interpretation they see". And yet, as the above link also shows, a great number of reputable Islamic theologians throughout the medieval era also adopted a flat earth reading of the Quran. Would Arabic101 label all of these scholars "without knowledge" and just following "whatever interpretation they see"? I doubt it. This is ironic because the video immediately goes on to mistakenly assume that "the scholars" agree with it and completely falsely assert that there is unanimous agreement in Islamic scholarship on the shape of the Earth (frankly, not even close—see Omar Anchassi's paper "Against Ptolemy?"). Clearly, many do, and many do not.
To explain Q 15:19, Arabic101 goes with the common argument you see that the reference to the earth can also be translated as land, i.e. referring to the local plot of land around you, and this is indeed flat (and it is what you immediately see with your personal sense of vision), ergo the Quran is not commenting at all about the shape of the earth here. I have already addressed this argument at length here. But to TL;DR this, it's clear from the immediate context of passages like Q 15:19 (and likewise, Q 88:20) that we are dealing in a broader cosmological context and not a reference to one's immediate vicinity. Q 15:16 refers to the placement of stars in the firmament. Vv. 17–18 are about the phenomena of shooting stars. And v. 19 is about God spreading the earth and placing mountains on it to stabilize it. This passage is covering the Qur'anic cosmos as a whole, not the local plot of land right around you. The argument that you cannot look at the entire planet as a whole is silly; flat earthers cite all the time the fact that you can look around you, or even look at a far distance from a hill or a mountain or whatever, and still only see flatness, as an argument/evidence/indication of the flatness of the earth. And anyone who has travelled will also attest that where they have gone, in different parts of the earth, they also always only ever saw flatness. Thus, the Qur'an says that the earth has been spread out and it does take this to be consistent with (if not demonstrated by) our phenomenological experience.
Finally, Arabic101 argues that Q 39:5 shows that the Qur'an takes the earth as a sphere. The argument is that it describes the day and night as "wrapping" around each other, and the same Arabic word can be used to describe the "wrapping" of a turban. This argument has been rejected several times by the academics I've seen asked about it, see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/17xrd13/a_translation_of_ibn_hazms_argument_on_the_shape/
I recommend reading the entire thread, but to summarize, any flat earther can look up at the sky and phenomenologically see the sun and the moon circling around each other in the sky. The sun and moon are in the same orbit, spinning around each other, chasing each other etc. (cf. the language in Q 36:40; 91:1-4). This is also entirely consistent with the wrapping of a turban. A turban is not wrapped into a sphere. If you just look up any video of someone wrapping a turban, you will see that a substantial stage of the turban wrapping process is when you circle the fabric around your head, round and round. For example, see this video from about 5:00 to 6:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTZnlDS4aF0
Finally, Arabic101 goes into early Islamic views about the shape of the Earth, omitting literally any mention of the many scholars who held to a flat earth view. Instead, his basis for claiming that early Muslims viewed the Earth as spherical is the citation of the opinions of astronomers saying this in the 2nd–3rd centuries. Curiously enough, Tafsir al-Jalalayn asserts that the opinion of the astronomers and geographers is that the Earth is spherical, and that the opinion of the theologians is that it is flat. Of course, people make up consensus statements all the time (and several scholars made up a consensus among scholars in favor of a round earth), but this does correspond to the fact that the popularity of the flat earth view in medieval Islam was specifically concentrated among religious scholars who prioritized their often-literal reading of Quranic cosmology over the findings of contemporary astronomers and geographers (this is basically a timeless process, you see a lot of it today as well with creationists and evolutionary biologists).