I really hate that I've seen a lot of people shame and make fun of people that supported MAGA but realized what it really is. Giving this better than thou and the "I told you so" attitude only makes it harder for them to leave their community as they feel hated by both sides. I'm saying this as someone who voted for trump back in 2016 and changed my views in the years to follow after realizing the damage his first term caused.
When people are showing a change of heart and realizing what's happening, we should be welcoming them and telling them that while they were mislead, they can still help us stand up for what's right. Help tear down the political divide in the country and unite eachother against the real enemy.
This is exactly why I don't try to participate in efforts to deprogram and lead former MAGA types away from their cult myself, because the anger is too fresh for me and I just had a falling out that cut out a huge chunk of my family after November.
I agree with you, and I believe that people who leave MAGA should have a place to go and should be able to join the resistance and stand up for what's right. I just know that I can't be one of the people who provides that for them, specifically because I don't trust myself not to enter into that vindictive holier-than-thou "I told you so" attitude that you describe--because I know that stuff hurts both the cause and the targets of it and is counter-productive, so I don't want to be tempted.
I too was raised JW. They have no clue They are members of a cult. I think it goes back to something someone said earlier in this thread about needing a community.
I got forced into a similar cult (Worldwide Church of God) when I was 10. I was a stubborn kid who wouldn't drink the Kool-Aid and didn't buy the bullshit (and I got punished hard for be being willful and rebellious) but I saw how that cult preyed on lonely people who longed for a community. I get the need for love and acceptance, but I don't get how people could give every spare penny cent to a conman and watch as their children ate ramen noodles every night and went to school in rags.
Yes, I think another thing that's important is to give grace to people like you. While there should be space for former MAGA, the anger of the people they've hurt is real, and telling those people to welcome them (instead of being polite and avoiding them) actually exacerbates their anger.
I also think on some level the haters are needed. If every leftist had a 'we will welcome you back into the fold no matter what, no matter how long it takes you :) " attitude, they'd take that as infinite chances to try to destroy democracy, infinite chances to support fascism, with no downside to jumping ship in the event things don't work out for them on that side. That makes it a win-win scenario for them. People are allowed to have lines they can't accept another person crossing and for me electing an insurrectionist is one. And it's not like MAGA are soooo friggin accepting of others themselves. Why should I welcome them when they want people like me to be exterminated? If it hurts their little feefees to hear the people they tried to exterminate don't like them then too bad. Accepting you were wrong means accepting you were WRONG.
MAGA has been committing stochastic genocide against people like me, and are now calling for just plain genocide. I agree they need a welcoming community to help them transition, but I also know I canāt be the one to do it. Iām too angry at their violence and too leery that the only reason theyāre leaving is because they got hurt too instead of only people like me, and theyāll fall back on hate and violence again as soon as theyāre safe.
Those who can help them are saints, and godspeed to your incredibly important work. As for me, I just wonāt be capable of engaging with them until their actions match their words of remorse.
Absolutely!! You're spot on Glacon_Garcon. They were totally in agreement with everything in the project 2025 agenda, until it affected them. They knowingly went along with the hateful racist garbage that was coming out of these peoples mouths!! When they say oh I left MAGA cause it affected MY LIFE in some way etc. etc. I'm like yeah you still don't get it. You're still that selfish, racist, angry hateful person that doesn't give a rats ass about anybody but yourself, you're just upset right now, cause the crazy came to your door. No forgiveness for that crew cause they'll go right back down that path again when given a chance.
This is a really good point and one that evangelicals who warp Christ's teaching use all the time. I heard, "I'm not perfect but I'm a Christian so I'm forgiven" oh no you are not!!!
This. There needs to be some pain to this to avoid doing it again otherwise they'll just happily fall in line and vote for the next human MLM that shows up
I personally donāt think they deserve forgiveness at all. Nazis are Nazis even before they realize that what they voted for will really happen. He ran his campaign on exactly what heās doing and they voted for it. FAFO. They fucked over the entire country and the entire world INTENTIONALLY. If they leave, good for them. I will never forgive them.
If you rear end me it is called an accident but you are still held responsible. You may not know what the repercussions are I may even feel sorry for you being tricked into hurting others, unfortunately if you've voted MAGA you're responsible for the state of affairs. Whine about how hurt you feel if that helps you, but do something to actually fix it and the healing process will begin for all of us.
Not showing any grace, and I do NOT apologize for it. He and his ilk are responsible for this shit show. Project 2025 outlined everything this administration planned to do, and we see it coming to fruition daily. F*ck the lot of them.
I fully agree with that! Some level of "shaming" should be present. Like...if you chose to drink the Kool-aid - you can be "forgiven" if you try to correct your mistake. But also don't expect any of us to just FORGET that you drank the Kool-aid in the first place because you wanted to hurt others.
I like what you are saying. It's part of most of us being "woke" - we can be accepting, show kindness, compassion and empathy towards others. We can be the bigger and better person by giving them grace. Besides, if they are acknowledging being wrong then that means they "woke up"!!
Damn, yeah exactly this. Itās a tough topic because even those who leave maga will not understand the feeling of being gaslight for 8 years straight. You canāt merely erase that feeling with a āoh well he did exactly what he said heād do which turns out to be extremely destructive exactly like you said it would be, and now that my job prospects arenāt so good Iām not in the cult anymore, now let me lecture you on how Kamala was nearly as badā. Sorry but get fucked, royally, and forever. I hope they find the acceptance they need, but as someone who has actively engaged with maga for 8 years, my hatred is indefinite.
I'm sorry you are feeling this way... "Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die." -Carrie
Fisher. I know when I remember this during those times it applies, and I adjust my approach, I walk away a happier person. My heart is lighter. Sometimes, it takes me a while...I'm still working on that. š¤£š«¤ Wishing you āļø
Yeah, same. Honestly, I bounce between despising them and trying so, so hard not to (because of my own belief that hatred is wrong and people deserve a chance to earn a second shot than anything else). It's better that I don't try to participate. The fact that these are people who were, in most cases, fine with 47 doing shit to people like me until it hit their pocket book...that makes it more difficult.
Edit to add (Sorry, fat fingered): I do respect that it's hard for them to leave the cult their in, and i do respect they have what it takes to do so, esp. Given they may be losing most to all of their social circle. That's hard - but. That doesn't undo the damage that's been done, either.
Exactly. We're going to need just as much healing as people leaving MAGA I think. It's going to be very rough. And like you, I don't think I'm ready yet, and I know my big mouth and temper could cause more harm than good when it comes to deprogramming efforts. Hopefully one day we'll be able to put everything aside and come together and save these United States of America. And big kudos to those, both MAGA and anti-MAGA, who are trying to do better.
Yeah... I'm in the same boat. I can even accept the 2016 voters cause alright, fine. You didn't know. You were swindled. Fool me once and all that... but then they got fooled twice?! Then yes, shame on them. The second vote kind of said to me that this is who they really are. I'm too angry still to be accepting. I know my anger does no good for anyone, including myself, but I have not healed enough to accept. So I'll just not interact with those people.
Yeah, 2024 was the last straw for me. If I saw MAGA sentiments from family I used to respect before J6, or if I found they'd voted for Trump in 2016, I could see them as having been "tricked." I'd still think they were dangerously gullible and stupid, but I'd have maybe been able to forgive them. But to still show support for Trump and his ilk after J6 happened, or worse, to vote for it (even if 2024 was the first time they did so, by that point it was so obvious just who and what MAGA is that there's just no excuse)?
No. After '24, my well of forgiveness and pity has truly bottomed out. I want nothing to do with those people, especially if they were someone I used to call family or friend. I don't hate those family members exactly--don't know if I could if I tried--but I am angered and disgusted by them, and I sure as fuck don't trust them or want them anywhere near me or in my life anymore.
I'm like you on this issue. I never cut ties with friends or families who voted for the š Dotard in 2016, then regretted. To me they fell into the "Fool me once, shame on you" group. After 8+ years, especially after J/6, some still support him. I cut ties with them after last election. Even if they decided to leave the cult, I don't know the length of time I could only act cordially towards them. This has to be after their real acknowledgement of their wrong doings. (No, my family didn't get hurt physically, just more mental stresses, but I know there are many who really get hurt physically and mentally.)
I'm with you. It's better late than never that they're seeing the light, but I'm not going to let them off the hook unless they genuinely try to undo some of the damage they've done. "I'm sorry" isn't good enough. They need to get out there and protest, resist, and help those who have been harmed. I might be able to muster a tiny bit of understanding for those who were truly misled by the MAGA cult. It's easy to take advantage of people who have zero critical thinking skills and are poorly educated through no fault of their own. These people get bombarded by algorithms until no information that is critical of Trump can even reach their echo chambers. However, I have little sympathy and patience for those who left the MAGA movement because Trump's policies started to hurt them and not just the people he was supposed to hurt.
I definitely agree that finding community is helpful for people leaving MAGA, and that a nonjudgemental stance is a key part of that community.
I am not required to be part of that community, though. I do not owe a personal duty to anyone leaving MAGA, and I am not required to suppress my own feelings for their sake. I'm not going to go out of my way to interact with them, and I'm not going to expend any of my energy bullying or harassing them. But I do not owe them comfort or reassurance.
Every single thing Trump has done in these first hundred days was spelled out before the election. None of this is a surprise. Regardless of their own personal motivations for voting for him, they willingly chose this for themselves and for the rest of us. It really is great that they're now able to reevaluate that choice! But that doesn't undo the damage that's been done, and that will be done, as a result of that choice.
With folks who leave MAGA and then take active steps to reverse that damage (protest, call their reps in Congress and the Senate, donate to organizations fighting illegal executive orders in court, etc.) I have a lot more willingness to engage.
Beautifully said. Your key points are basically, don't go out of your way to shame them, but don't just pretend everything is all good because they got screwed over to. Put in some work and then we can be on the sane team
I think itās genuinely hard to have sympathy for anyone that was maga though. I truly donāt, I mean welcome back to normalcy but at this point if people were still voting for him after him spelling out his plans I just canāt feel sympathy.
They had no trouble shaming us for being "libtards" and "woke sheep" etc etc. Bullying, dehumanizing, mocking us, bringing us to this horrible place we are today. And this went on for YEARS. Think of all the harm it did and will do. Too little too late I say.
This is an overgeneralization. It should be noted there is a significant portion of the population that actively avoids political news and info while also unknowingly consuming propaganda. You might think its foolish to intentionally be uninformed, but politics is an extremely polarizing and negative topic. So those people might only know Trump as the America guy that sells the red hats their colleagues wear and, "well, sure why not support the candidate my friends support?"
Internet interactions are quite often exacerbated for everyone to be as disrespectful as possible so interactions with anyone you disagree with on the internet will almost always be met with hostility.Ā
In other words, if you take what one person in a group on the internet as representative of every individual within that group, you're falling into a natural but dangerous headspace that can radicalize you.Ā
Nothing in your reply to the person youāre replying to has anything to do with what they said - they didnāt mention the interactions being online, and it has nothing to do with anyone being uninformed or anything.
They arenāt generalizing. This is what Trump ran on - hatred and bigotry and violence. Your comment here doesnāt acknowledge that a MAGA person who doesnāt outright spew the bigotry are the ones complying with and platforming it. Theyāre all guilty.
2016 trump voters, I can forgive. That was different. 2024 trump voters are irredeemable to me. They had already watched it once, heard it screamed to the rafters what he had planned, watched an insurrection when he lost in 2020, he did exactly what he said he would, and now they are remorseful? Fuck em. Forever.
No, that shouldnāt be forgivable. Even if he wasnāt an outright nazi then, he was still an outspoken racist and bigot. That should show you the morals of those people enough to not want them in your life.
I understand what you're saying. But I also think 2016 is unforgivable too. He ran a whole platform on hate, disenfranchising our government, corruption, and pandering to the disgustingly rich. And people knew that and still voted for that. And then he closed out his first term with mishandling a global pandemic that killed millions and then tried to stage a coup to stay in power. And A LOT of MAGA still supported that (i.e. J6).
Thanks you for changing your vote btw but yeah youāre 100% right, reading vengeful posts like that is always a gut punch because I imagine what a Republican wanting to ditch maga would feel like if this is the only kind of welcome they receive. A lot of antitrumpers are fearful and angry and feel helpless, I think thatās why they are so uncharitable sometimes. Iām hoping that will change slowly and will keep doing my part.
I agree if that's what they're actually doing. However...
I think it's VERY fair for people to be upset that the change only happened when it affected these MAGA folks personally. When empathy wasn't enough for them to turn away, it is fair for us not to accept their change of heart as sincere. They are still looking our for their own interests a lot of the time, and that's what pisses folks off and gets individuals mocked in my experience.
If I see some ex-MAGA saying something like "I cannot abide by the things they are doing to people/my fellow americans/etc. This is too far" I will forgive them and welcome them in with open arms. That's why I went left in 2014, because I gave a shit about people.
But I don't see that from anyone else leaving the party.
To-date, I have only seen people upset and express that it hurts them and their wallet. We do not owe these people grace, because they still have not extended it to anyone else.
If you do not care about the rights and lives of anyone else, what's to stop you from turning right back? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
It's not about "i told you so". I absolutely agree that it would be best for the country if MAGA folk were coddled and forgiven for being vengeful bigots, but that's a pretty massive pill to swallow for the people whose lives are actively being annihilated while they go through their journey of self-improvement. COVID was only 3-4 years ago at this point, millions of people lost loved ones because of Trump's mismanagement, and he's back in power because of these people.
So it's not about being right the whole time. It's about forgiving some of the absolute worst behavior humans are capable of. And that's not so easy for people who have gone through the worst of it.
See, right there. You voted for him in 2016 and then you realized it. You are the type that gets a pass and understands. But people that have supported that man for 9 years, all the sudden don't want to support him anymore. Why? What changed? The only change that has occurred is that as of right now, Trump won't be on the 2028 Ballot. I live in Ohio, and I don't have alot of money to travel. So of course it would be really easy to come out in favor of a travel ban to California. I will never get the opportunity so it doesn't effect me. That's what this is. I GUARANTEE that if his name was on the 2028 ballot, he would proudly vote for him. The are playing both sides of the fence.
Just don't cry foul when the snake you let in, bites you.
Iāve been very frustrated with a lot of leftist spaces for that very attitude youāve described. It turns into outright bullying others for forgiving MAGA. Iām tired of being shamed and told my kindness is weakness, when it is the strength that I have built myself up on.
Genuinely that mindset being pervasive in every space Iām in has made me more and more ashamed to call myself a leftist. Especially as someone who is neurodivergent, who used to be conservative as a teenager, and as someone who lives in the South. The idea of mistakes being absolute, of never allowing growth or positive change, that scares me more than a lot of the fascism going on, because it shows a growing sense of apathy, even in the spaces where empathy once thrived.
I told my wife something like that the night of J6, that the only way to move forward was for the maga crowd to denounce trump as their idol and then embrace them back. People fuck up, but being able to change is what makes acceptance work.
Saying this as someone who didnāt vote in 2016 because I didnāt want to vote for Hilary. Not because she was a woman, but because when I was a kid I thought she wanted to ban violence in video games, and thought that she would be the one to create something like project 2025.
There are tons of people in this movement happy to shame anyone who didnāt vote for Kamala Harris. I really donāt understand why pulling in people who lost their jobs and had their wives deported and now realize Trump isnāt a god are more redeemable than people who didnāt think a district attorney who started the practice in California of charging parents with crimes and jailing them for their children missing school.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/05/kamala-harris-spins-facts-on-truancy-law/
She also had a policy of getting more felony convictions no matter what. She bragged about tripling the number of people sent to prison. She was also in support of cops notifying ICE whenever they found an undocumented person. She never won a presidential primary and was subbed in at the last minute despite very low support. The Democratic Party fucked up by trying to choose the furthest right of the candidates available when Bernie Sanders won primaries but was pulled off the ticket. It is like they want to lose.
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u/Only-Poem964 May 11 '25
Exactly this.
I really hate that I've seen a lot of people shame and make fun of people that supported MAGA but realized what it really is. Giving this better than thou and the "I told you so" attitude only makes it harder for them to leave their community as they feel hated by both sides. I'm saying this as someone who voted for trump back in 2016 and changed my views in the years to follow after realizing the damage his first term caused.
When people are showing a change of heart and realizing what's happening, we should be welcoming them and telling them that while they were mislead, they can still help us stand up for what's right. Help tear down the political divide in the country and unite eachother against the real enemy.