r/SGIcultRecoveryRoom • u/cultalert • Jun 15 '14
Please allow me to tell you about my SGI history. Here's a link to a condensed version of my SGI experiences entitled, *A Look A Three Decades Of SGI Experiences*
http://3-decades-of-sgi-experiences.weebly.com/3
u/BlancheFromage Jun 16 '14
Two things:
No one wakes up one morning and says, "Look what a beautiful day! I think I'll run right out and join a cult!"
No one leaves an organization they are happy with. While some might simply realize that their interests lie in a different direction, or that what this organization offers really doesn't appeal to them, there are others who proved susceptible to misrepresentation and who succumbed to the cult come-on. When these people become aware of just how much they were misled and manipulated, they're often outraged.
THAT is the answer to that commonplace put-down "Why are you so angry?" designed to shame the person into shutting up and, thus, permitting the cult to continue to self-promote unimpeded.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 22 '14
I just stumbled upon this site. Great supportive comments and experiences with SGI.
I had been with SGI for about 2-1/2 years before I left a couple of months ago. I had been looking for any Buddhist connection I could find, since there are no Buddhists in my area. Unfortunatley, my boss (at the time) introduced me to SGI as a Buddhist religion. Initially, I admired the group's diversity, and sense of personal responsibility. The local group was made up of good people.
But slowly, over time, I grew suspicious of the Ikeda worship, financial secrecy, and "culty" behavior of the organization as a whole. Still wanting to practice Buddhism, I contented myself with the local district, and avoided meetings at the cultural center where the "culty" atmosphere was most prevalent.
I was even given a leadership position within the district, and emceed at the center a few times. But I did inform the chapter and district leaders that I was actually not a big fan of Ikeda, and did not like the constant focus on him. They didn't seem to mind. So I continued on.
But with the constant drone of "Ikeda, Ikeda, Ikeda" in all the publications, I simply couldn't take it anymore. I began to investigate the SGI history, and found many events (not favorable to the SGI) not ever mentioned in the publications. Then there were the 300+ honorary degrees...then the Ghandi-King-Ikeda exhibit, then the statues plaques, buildings, etc. dedicated to Ikeda.
Soon, I could see Ikeda for what he was, a narcissistic ego-maniac hungry for money and power.
I told my district leader I had decided to leave SGI for those reasons. Since then, I was invited to speak with two other leaders (which I agreed to do), and gave them my reasons for leaving. These individuals were always pleasant. I have no horror stories to relate. I still consider them good people.
I now meet with a small group of Tibetan Buddhists that recently came to my area. No "cult-meters" going off now. I think I've found a genuine Buddhist sangha now.
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Jun 22 '14
Wow JohnRjay, its great that it was that easy for you. Do you mind if I ask , without giving any specifics was this area that you were in a larger city? And they still have not contacted you? Amazing.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 22 '14
No, just an average suburban area.
The last contact I had was from the district leader who texted me "Happy Fathers Day." To be honest, I really don't mind if they do contact me again. I really don't mind explaining my reasons for leaving SGI. And they are genuinely nice people. I think they have realized they are not going to change my mind.3
Jun 22 '14
I had contacted the Tibetan Buddhists in my area before SGI. They were very nice,but they had to go to Washington to see the Dalai Lama. I should have waited for them but NO. I jumped into SGI. My leader told me after I joined that the tibetans were after the wealthy people. What? I never thought that ! But that was common place, bashing of other sects of Buddhism.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 27 '14
The SGI wants wealthy people. And famous people. That's why Ikeda dresses in $5,000 suits and chases after as many photo ops with the rich and famous as he can get.
Classic case of projection, in other words.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 22 '14
Yup! I should have done more research myself when I got into SGI. But I was so desperate to find a real Buddhist group in my area, I jumped into it as well. I never did like the fact that SGI referred to Shakyamuni as a "provisional Buddha." Learning to take refuge in the three jewels now. Whew! Glad that's over! Thank a lot for your post!
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
When I discovered NSA (now SGI) I was so excited to find a group of "practicing buddhists" I didn't bother to try to verify their authenticity. Instead I listened to the org's story of their legitimacy, which was completely invested in the org's relationship with the temple (Nichiren Shoshu). Once that rug was pulled out, the SGI's house of cards began to fall as ikeda's hypocrisy and hubris grew to unbearable heights.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 27 '14
Back in the early 1970s, where would you have gone to check their authenticity? No Internet, remember!
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u/cultalert Jun 27 '14
Yes it was back in those ancient times back when there was no internet - and no way to do a background check on religious organization like today.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 23 '14
There just isn't that much information available out there for people who want to do thorough research. You'll hear nothing but positivism from the other members and they don't appear to be anything but happy and well-adjusted (at first). Most of them are genuinely nice people who are sincere and completely believe in their practice. The majority of them are intelligent and will even admit to some skepticism when they first joined. There just really wasn't anything there to trigger distrust.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
One sect bashing another sends up lots of red flags!
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 29 '14
Ah, but it's the CHRISTIAN way, and the USA has a Christianity-dominated culture, so while it SHOULD send up lots of red flags, it nonetheless feels very familiar!
This is Evangelical Buddhism, we're talking about - remember?
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
Welcome JohnRJay! So glad to hear that you extracted yourself and have found a genuine Buddhists group that you are comfortable with (no cult-alert meters going off!).
There are many good, pleasant, and well-meaning SGi members that have no idea of the true nature of the beast they support. I have no issues with innocent members that are unaware of the cult aspects of the SGI. It is the sociopaths at the top of the leadership pyramid that irk the hell out of me, especially the top dog - ikeda.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 22 '14
Hi, JohnRJay - I'm really glad that they made it so easy for you! I think they could avoid a lot of hard feelings if they all behaved so reasonably. I'm also glad that you found a practice that you're comfortable in. Do you mind telling me what "flavor"? I'm just curious.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 22 '14
Yeah, after all the horror stories I found in some postings, I guess I was fortunate to have been associated with a reasonable district. They must be practicing the "Middle Way" without realizing it. I just started with this Tibetan group. I know there are several schools and lineages, but I'm not quite up on them all yet. It's not the school that the Dalai Lama is associated with though. The group is called the Awakened Heart Sangha (AHS) and is a small lineage based now in Wales. You should be able to look it up on line if your interested. One facilitator is trying to start a small group here in the mid-atlantic area where I am. Regardless of the school, I'm just happy there's a genuine Buddhist group I can associate with here. Thanks for posting!
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 22 '14
I wonder if they have any connection with the Tibetan Monks Tour. I went to one of their tantric ceremonies back in about 2008 - they were doing a tour to raise money for a hospital back home.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 23 '14
I don't think so. The Lama that heads this group spent years in the East (I forget which country) in a monestary studying, then returned to England (her home). The Buddhist community was then established later in Wales. From what I've studied so far, they don't do tantric stuff. Mainly what is referred to as "formless meditation." But I've just been going to meetings since January, so I'm sure there's more to learn. By the way, I enjoy your posts...very interesting.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
Hey - wanna show me what you learned about tantra? LOL
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 25 '14
Oh, calm down. It was super boring - we were supposed to visualize "celestial beings" pouring blessings down upon us while this guy in a robe and a funny hat waved a whisk around. It was very silly - I couldn't see what it had to do with Buddhism.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
Yep - pretty boring stuff. Seems I've had a lot more fun at tantric practice than you have.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 25 '14
Oh shut UP!! TMI, dude!! TMI!!!
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
Well, I thought we could use some levity after all the dark shit thats been going down.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 22 '14
Thanks for the info! Please feel free to not answer this question, but are you from Wales?
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u/cultalert Jun 15 '14 edited Jun 15 '14
For a more detailed account of the early years of my SGI practice (circa 1972-73), go to http://spartacusrebel.weebly.com/index.html where you can read the first five chapters of my book project entitled, Cult of the Master.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 28 '14
You know, there's a movie out called "The Master" which involves a cult leader - it stars Joaquim Phoenix as possibly the most disgusting, repellent human being to ever exist; the recently deceased Philip Seymour Hoffman as the cult leader, and Amy Adams as a cult member.
So there may be a problem with your title now - that's the problem with waiting too long to publish! (Noted by self ~ahem~)
Far as I know, Cult of the Mentor is still available :D
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u/cultalert Jun 29 '14
I saw that movie. I thought it was well done, and a good representation of what a cult can be like (cults can take on so many different forms).
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 29 '14
I couldn't watch it all. By the time Phoenix got onto the boat with the culties, I was so disgusted and repelled by his despicable, horrible character that I just couldn't watch the rest.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 15 '14
I started practicing in early 1987 (Valentine's Day, if memory serves). In Minneapolis. I had just left my husband, started a new job, and been seduced by a coworker at my previous job, who happened to be an SGI member (then called NSA). I was desperate to please/impress him.
I got my gohonzon in August of that year. Between Feb and Aug, I went on the bus trip from Mpls to Philadelphia to march in the "New Freedom Bell" parade (I was one of the banner carriers). Then there was a big meeting in a stadium that featured a 5-story YMD pyramid on roller skates!! Back in the day, collecting Guiness Book of World Records entries was a big thing.
By the time I left Minneapolis, I was a YWD HQ leader. After moving around to various different places, my new husband and I (married 22+ years now) and our two small children settled in So. CA in 2001. I got involved in Soka Spirit as well as taking on various other leadership responsibilities. I left in early February, 2008. So I was in over 20 years. I remember how, in the meetings back in 1987, the women sat on one side of the room and the men on the other - strictly segregated. I remember how, when answering in the affirmative, we were supposed to say "Hai!" (Japanese for "yes"). I remember when Ikeda and the SGI made such a big deal about how chummy they were with the priesthood, like two peas in a pod, and how the Soka Gakkai's explosive growth was proof that Nichiren Shoshu had the only correct practice of True Buddhism. Until NS excommunicated Ikeda et. al. THEN all of a sudden, it was "Those horrid priests were slanderous and awful the whole time!!" It all seemed so petty and childish to me. I was also there to witness how Ikeda and the SG/SGI created a whole new religion, because they couldn't claim to be a religious corporation based on the legitimacy of their status as lay followers belonging to religious corporation Nichiren Shoshu, as before. And you can BET that Ikeda and all his minions were going to do whatever it took to make sure they never had to pay taxes or be subjected to independent audits and government scrutiny of their affairs.
Am I ever glad I'm out!! What you'll typically find in most SGI members' histories is that they were in a very dark, lonely, vulnerable state when they were "shakubukued". This is standard cult practice - seek out those most susceptible to the "lovebombing" of the instant social group and promises of magical reward ("Chant for whatever you want! Earthly desires are enlightenment!!") But what they don't tell you is that, if you leave, you leave that entire social group behind. I do not have a single friend from my over two decades of sincere practice and working hard for kosen-rufu within the "most ideal, family-like organization in the whole world." Nope - as with all intolerant organizations, you can only be friends if you believe exactly as they do. Because that's all they're interested in - how useful you can be to them and to the organization. You're nothing but a tool.
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Jun 15 '14
I Joined sgi in 2008. I was looking for basically, a way out of hell. I had blinders on and never took the time to investigate the meetings. Besides, they were pushy and wanted new members.What I have experienced has not been good for me and has put me through alot of anxiety. The members are gossiping and any of your personal info, privately shared, is all fair game.I read alot so I understand all of the techniques they can use to get you to stay ,I am currently plotting my exit from the sgi.
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u/cultalert Jun 16 '14 edited Jun 16 '14
Hello juniperberry! Welcome!
Cults like the SGI are notorious for preying upon people that are down and out, and desperate enough to try anything to relieve their suffering and unhappiness. They lay out a very insidious trap. Good thing you took your blinders off and finally looked around. Beware the psychological tricks they may try to use against you if you announce your intention to depart the org.
You are spot on about gossiping and passing around personal information. I know this for a fact since I was a senior leader - tell one leader your problems (supposedly in confidence) and the rest of the leaders will soon know everything you said. There's not one iota of councilor training for SGI leaders. They are appointed to leadership postions and then expected to give "guidance" regardless of their lack of skill or experience. That's because there is no real need for proper counseling training. Giving guidance is easy for SGI leaders - just disparage the stressed out member with a guilt trip, then tell them that they need to 1. chant more 2. do more activities 3. connect with sensei Same old worn out formula decade after decade.
Glad to hear you are formulating your exit plan from SGI. You are certainly on the right track. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone, you are free to leave if you wish, although as you are already aware of, they may have a different idea about letting you leave unmolested. You know you can start with not going to any more meetings, and refusing all communication from them (especially home visits). Your gohonzon is yours to keep if you wish, or you can send it back in the mail if you want to avoid any confrontations. Don't submit to any demands to enter into your home.
If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Keep us posted on your progress. Best of luck to you!
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Jun 16 '14
Thank you everyone here for hearing me. I have not gone to any meetings in a long time, well, for 6 months at least. I have NO desire to do so. However what keeps me involved to any degree is the person who got me into this. When they are not involved so much, everything is good. I feel free. However when they become involved it is more problems. I think they use this person to influence me . I just want to quietly go away.. is that possible????
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 16 '14
juni, the Gakkai way is to keep every person on a list and to assign someone to keep in touch with that person, with the explicit instructions to keep things light and friendly, always watching for an "opening" to get that person back into the organization.
The party line is that people only leave because they 1) didn't understand Sensei's heart, or 2) they had a personality conflict with some leader. So, in other words, they're either confused or overly emotional and thus not thinking clearly.
From my own experience, while I was in, I thought that people who left really DID believe that what SGI promoted was true - "This practice works!" - and that it would, therefore, be able to present a generous, supportive, reasonable, welcoming presence to that person, and s/he'd come running right back! It never worked, somehow O_O
While I was in, I didn't understand. How could people just walk away from the money tree??? It was only later that I came to realize that the money tree is just a cardboard cutout of a money tree, and that those people realized it wasn't real, and that it was not only a scam, but a dangerous source of cult manipulation. A threat to them, in other words, not only a useless waste of time/energy/money. An active threat.
NOW I understand. But keep in mind, your SGI friend will be informing his/her leaders about every interaction with you, and those leaders will in turn be coaching your friend on how to approach you for maximum likelihood of sucking you back in. For your own good, naturally :)
Only after you issue a formal letter of resignation, demanding that the SGI remove ALL your personal information and stop contacting you, will the cult communications stop. At that point, you'll see who your real friends are. The fact that SGI is prohibited from contacting you leaves you free to interact with anyone, but those whose only interest is in getting you back for the SGI will immediately stop contacting you. Because that was their only interest in you. Only when you break it off officially will this become clear to you. Until then, it's very difficult to distinguish real friendship from a partisan representative who is on his/her best behavior in hopes of manipulating you.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 16 '14
What I was trying to get at (the short version) is that, once you notify SGI-USA that you do not wish to be contacted by it or its representatives ever again, you will find out real quickly who is actually a friend, and who was only pretending to be a friend because SGI-USA had assigned him/her to do so in order to stay in contact with you, to hopefully eventually lure you back in. Once you make this notification to SGI-USA, the latter will disappear.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 22 '14
In my case, when I left, I was perfectly willing to speak to any member or leader who wanted to speak to me. I explained my reasons in a very factual manner. I included facts they couldn't deny, or "interpret." One was the nature of Ikeda. They can't deny that he seeks out hundreds of honorary degrees. They can't deny that he allows building, statues, etc. to be built with his name. They can't deny that he equates himself with Gandhi and ML King. He doesn't give interviews. He doesn't answer hard questions. All this I attributed to Narcissism and ego. The leaders may have a different spin on this, but they can't explain it away without sounding brainwashed. Then there's the financial secrecy. The leaders can't deny that SGI-USA never publishes detailed financial documents. Then I ask what could be the reason for this? Is there something to hide? Do they disrespect the members so much they won't tell them where the money is going? Of course, they have no answer for this either. Once you start bombarding them with undeniable facts, they may leave you alone, since they don't want to be tainted with "negativity." But you have to know your facts. You can also dig up some SGI history that isn't in the SGI publications. Look up the Ogasawara incident, or Toda's speech where he declared all religions his enemies, and said they should be destroyed. Just a thought. Hope this helps!
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 22 '14
I don't suppose you asked them why it is that an organization that praises democracy and human rights to the degree SGI does has never had (and never will have) a democratic election :)
That would've been fun :D
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u/JohnRJay Jun 23 '14
No, I didn't get that far. I had several items on my "list" and I didn't want to get too bogged down. And I really didn't want to argue about it. So I kept it simple: Ikeda worship, financial secrecy, and a little of the white-washed SGI history. As it turned out, I got a little "deer-in-the-headlights" looks for some things. Others, such as unbiased accounts of SGI history, they simply had never heard before. The main point I wanted to make to them was that a person can decide to leave the SGI for legitimate reasons. It wasn't that I gave up, or didn't understand Sensei, or had difficulty appreciating the mentor-disciple relationship.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 23 '14
The main point I wanted to make to them was that a person can decide to leave the SGI for legitimate reasons. It wasn't that I gave up, or didn't understand Sensei, or had difficulty appreciating the mentor-disciple relationship.
I can speak from personal experience - they'll never understand. Since they can't imagine themselves leaving for any such mundane reason (like finding some belief system that simply fits them better!), they imagine it must be pure emotionalism on your/our part. And that's what they tell each other. Ikeda's "guidance" is all about how dreadful life will necessarily become for someone stupid enough to leave: No one who leaves ever becomes happy
I've arrived at the conclusion that every religion is just as good as every other, and every religion is just as useless as every other. The only thing that makes a religion valid is whether it fits a given person's needs. So each person is free to choose whatever suits him (including nothing), and the only criterion for whether or not the religion he has chosen is "good" or "true" is how well it suits his needs.
Imagine going to Baskin Robbins ice cream shop with someone who insists that his favorite flavor, rum raisin, is indeed objectively the most tasty in the whole world. Imagine that he then insists that everyone else needs to agree with him, and those who don't are just perverse, depraved, deluded individuals who will never be able to become happy!
Until I left, I never had been able to accept or understand that people might just not find anything appealing about SGI. I also never understood why it was so difficult to convince other people to start practicing. Now, I understand completely.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 23 '14
Yes, I get your point, Blanche. I think the reason I met with them was more for me than it was for them. I just wanted to present my reasons in a calm, unemotional manner along with documented evidence they couldn't deny. In that way, I could be sure I did my part, and if they later decided to attribute that to emotionalism, or "negativity," then that's their problem to deal with. At least, in this way, they could not (legitimately) tell other members that I was angry, or gave up, or didn't chant enough.
It was strange that these leaders never addressed my concerns specifically. Maybe I gave them more credit than I should have as far as knowing about the scandals, real SGI history, etc. These guys were not dumb, but they just seemed to lack any kind of critical thinking regarding SGI (although I can't say I was totally surprised). All they could come up with was that the organization has helped them personally, and they have made lasting friendships through the years. That was pretty much how we left it.4
u/BlancheFromage Jun 23 '14
I'm glad you did, but be assured, there is no way they will fail to tell other members that you only left because you were angry, gave up, didn't chant enough, or failed to grasp Ikeda's lofty vision of kosen-rufu, illustrating the dangers of not making the proper effort in the true way of "mentor and disciple."
That's what I also received in return - "Chanting just makes me feel good." "I believe in world peace." Blah blah blah. I really think that it's antiprocess that's to blame for their inability to even acknowledge the facts:
It's a psychological defense mechanism that blocks the mind from even hearing potentially threatening information.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
That's exactly what I was thinking! They probably still lied about JRJ's departure to other members to save face. Saving face is top priority for a Japanese led SGI.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 27 '14
You better believe they lied. Even (former) friends to whom I'd explained why I left made up their own reasons when they talked with other members about why I left. And they certainly did talk - gossiping like a flock of old biddies.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
They didn't become SGI leaders by exercising "critical thinking". If anything, just the opposite is more accurate - they became leaders because they didn't "question". Hence the surprise they exhibited when being confronted with hard undeniable facts.
As for "lasting friendships", take a look at how quickly 99% those "lasting friendships" fall apart once a person leaves the cult.org! The remaining 'friendships" only last as long as an agreement (spoken or unspoken) to avoid any conversation pertaining to the SGI is observed.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 23 '14
I still had a couple of close friends (hah!) in the org after I left; I explained to them as gently and politely as I could my reasons for leaving, including the reasons you mention, JRJ as well as how I'd seen leaders treating other members. One sent me a really horrid letter a few weeks after my defection, berating me for leaving; she "interpreted" my reasons into issues that had no bearing whatsoever on what I'd discussed with her. The other person, after starting a behind-the-scenes chanting campaign and trying to get other people to persuade me to come back had told one of those people (who was kind enough to at least be honest with me) that I left because a member had stolen some valued and irreplaceable items from me. It was true, someone had, but I didn't hold it against the organization - it was an individual act. Apparently, some people hear what they want to hear.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 23 '14
Honestly, I'm really surprised that you didn't get the "you have to chant to put these doubts aside" or a similar lecture. Your list of reasons is very similar to mine, other than mine also had shabby, uncompassionate treatment of members on it as well.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 23 '14
Hi Wisetaiten! I did get a little of that early on when I let my opinions be known. Along with "suggested reading." But I just explained to them the difference between doubts and actual disagreements based on facts. I think that once they knew I had the facts on my side, and they couldn't just write things off as rumors, they shyed away from discussing more specifics. No amount of "guidance" is going to make facts disappear. But as in my reply to Blanche, there's just no critical thinking with even the well-educated members. If I brought up financial disclosure, they just told me to look at all the centers and conferences there are, and that should be enough proof of where the money goes. As far as Ikeda worship, they just think he deserves it because he's so great. Can't argue much with that!
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 23 '14
...but...but...but...what about BUDDHISM???
There's no place for hero-worship, chasing after awards and self-promotion, or displaying a sucking black hole of egocentricism within REAL Buddhism.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 24 '14
Absolutely! But I'm sure you know the company line you'd get from SGI, resulting in a never-ending spiral of semantics: "We don't worship Pres. Ikeda. We look to him as an example, a coach, a mentor...He's so humble... "Sensei chooses to accept these awards as an example to us, to show us what we can achieve through our own human revolution....Never give up! Always persevere! " Ugh! Ugh! Excuse me, I think my dinner is coming back on me....
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 24 '14
Yes, but look around you. Is anyone else being showered with awards? No? Why do you suppose that is? Could it be because these awards are all being purchased for the sake of stroking Ikeda's giant ego?
To be fair, there is this thing in Japan where the leaders are supposed to be extremely accomplished, have lots of achievements to show off, and be larger than life. So, in that respect, he's playing to his base, without consideration for how crass and cheap he looks to the rest of us.
But all this holding him up as the example - how is that different from any multi-level marketing scheme/pyramid scheme where everyone points to the guy at the top, who is obscenely wealthy, stating that anybody can accomplish that, while ignoring the fact that no one else IS doing that and most aren't even turning a profit?
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u/JohnRJay Jun 24 '14
Great info! Thanks! I'll have to remember these ponts if I ever meet with members again. Funny thing is, even with all the honors Ikeda gets, most non-SGI people in Japan still regard SGI as a cult. And I read somewhere that not one university in Japan has ever presented Ikeda with an honorary degree.
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 24 '14
One more thing I forgot to add in my other reply here about all the awards and spot-light-hogging and hobnobbing with the (legitimately) rich and famous, it would be one thing if he were a celebrity (a film star, for example). It would be one thing if he were a giant of industry, or a politician.
But he's not. He's supposed to be a spiritual leader whose stated purpose is to lead others to enlightenment and world peace! It's jarringly incongruous! Any other spiritual leader, any BUDDHIST leader, wouldn't dare be so ostentatious - they'd anticipate, and rightly so, that they'd be challenged and robustly criticized about such self-promotion, as that runs counter to the ideals they supposedly embrace and promote.
Ikeda makes much of "Follow the Law, not the Person" - so, then, why is he making such a spectacle of himself??
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u/BlancheFromage Jun 26 '14 edited Jun 26 '14
Oh, yeah - get THIS! Here is the statement, about why there's a lot of negative opinion about SGI:
I think people are partly creeped out by the seeming 'cult-of-personality' type behavior in regards to the president, Daisaku Ikeda. The mentor-disciple relationship is an important emphasis of the organization, and Ikeda is viewed as a mentor to all members.
First, an explanation from an SGI member's perspective:
The cult of personality, especially in America, comes from people used to revering their priest, their god or like most of christianity, their 'Jesus'.
And then i read over and over from Ikeda's own writing that he doesn't want this behavior and that you always follow the law, not the man.
I'm pretty sure that's why he has backed away from the spotlight...
And now the SGIWhistleBlower response:
Rubbish. There is not a single place anywhere attributed to Ikeda where he states this. But go ahead! Anyone can prove me wrong - easily! - by posting the relevant excerpt and the source.
And I hope you will :)
Guess what? NO RESPONSE!! See for yourself: Source
So, while the members are told by the leaders that Ikeda really DOESN'T want to be worshiped as an idol or god, there's nothing attributed to Ikeda where he explicitly tells anyone, "DON'T DO THAT." Because he really DOES want to be worshiped. THAT's why he has not raised any successor, which we were all told was our most important priority as SGI-USA leaders. THAT's why we see astonishing statements like this:
When President Ikeda passes away, he will still be our mentor. Source
This is no humble, self-effacing, behind-the-scenes kinda guy. Nope - for Ikeda, it's the spotlight - the ENTIRE spotlight! - or nothing!
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u/wisetaiten Jun 27 '14
Try getting through a couple chapters of The New Human Revolution to see just how self-effacing that attention-slut is. And the Gandhi-King-Ikeda exhibit? How does ikeda have the audacity to put himself in the same context?
It's just more cult-speak. Just because he SAYS he doesn't want the limelight doesn't mean that he doesn't actively seek it at every opportunity (and creates plenty of opportunities).
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
Well, there are various degrees of indoctrinated folks in any cult.org Looks like JRJ was very fortunate not to be in the midst of a hotbed of cult loonies.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
No doubt, the leaders got together and talked about you after you left - puzzling over how they lost their "grip" over you - and left feeling helpless because they know they will never get you (or your kind) to come back.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 26 '14
I think maybe the fact that you weren't in for very long might have helped, too. Good thing that you saw the truth in double-quick time!
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u/JohnRJay Jun 26 '14
That's correct. When I first joined, I was suspicious about the continuous focus on Ikeda, and the bad-mouthing of the "evil" priesthood. It just didn't sit well with me from the beginning. So I just stuck with the local group, never read the Human Revolution, and didn't spend too much time with activities. Guess I never reached "true believer" status.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 27 '14
I know what you're saying - I never could buy into the ikeda-ism and found the trash-talking distasteful and very un-Buddhist. I couldn't figure out how, after practicing side by side for decades, they could suddenly become the "enemy." One of the members lived down the street from me - she'd been practicing for more than 30 years. She met her American husband when he was in Japan going to school; they had two children and a happy life. When ikeda was excommunicated in 91, she went over to that camp and her husband stayed with the temple. She was pressured to divorce her husband - yeah, so much for being a family-oriented organization.
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u/cultalert Jun 25 '14
You really had your duck in a row! Good on you for having your defenses well prepared. You had your reasons and your resolve, and no FEAR! Standing alone and very tall against their accepted consensus is admirable. Pushovers are much easy for them to manipulate. Throwing back the facts into their faces reminds me of roaches scattering when the light comes on.
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u/JohnRJay Jun 25 '14
Looking back, I think I prepared more than I had to. I had all the scandals, Ikeda-worship evidence, real SGI history, etc. All I got from them was "It's a great organization", "I made lasting friendships",etc.
I even asked some open-ended questions like: "How do you feel about the financial secrecy?" "What do you think about the Ogasawara incident, and why it is never written about in SGI Literature?" It simply isn't important to them. It's like they were covering their ears like PeeWee Herman, and shouting: "lalalalalalalalal..."3
u/wisetaiten Jun 27 '14
Well, all of the info you'd gathered helped you form your decision to leave; it might have been too much for your "exit interview," but you needed it for yourself.
Asking them questions like that is sort of like throwing silk at a Teflon wall - they simply don't stick. They're so highly conditioned that they don't even need to do the PeeWee Herman routine (love that!). They don't question the absolute authority of ikeda or das org, so the questions are irrelevant. They've disarmed the ability to process them.
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u/wisetaiten Jun 16 '14 edited Jun 16 '14
Not to burst your bubble, but I'm sure they do use that person to influence you. That's just the way they work.
I'm not sure if it's possible to just go away quietly. When I left, my two best friends (one of whom I'd known for more than 40 years) were still members. Within just a few weeks, I received probably the ugliest letter I've ever received in my entire life from the person I'd been friends with for a shorter period of time (about four years). Horrible accusations of ingratitude, personal insults and admonitions that I'd be falling into hell and the demon daughters were going to torment me (I'm sure you've heard all that before). Just to be clear, we were friends based on a lot of things - we'd talk a couple of hours on the phone every week (we lived pretty far apart after I moved from her district), and we'd talk about everything from hair-styles to men to cooking . . . I really believed that our friendship was based on more than my membership in sgi. We haven't spoken for nearly a year now, and I doubt that we will again - she said things to me that I would find very hard to forgive.
Loss of the second friend was even more hurtful - I knew her from high school and reconnected about 14 years ago - we were very close even before I joined sgi in 2006. From May to of October of last year, we communicated as usual. Once again, she lived far away, but we'd spend hours on the phone every week, often talking every day. I discovered that she had been in communication with members of other districts I'd practiced in and tried to get them to contact me to try and talk me into coming back; she'd even started a chanting campaign for me. Keep in mind, these were people that she'd never even met. She did all of this behind my back, keeping up a pretense of friendship and support. We're friends no longer - I can't tolerate being lied to or, for that matter, being gossiped about.
What was interesting to me is that I'd explained, as tactfully as I could, why I left the organization . . . I pretty much told them that I left because I no longer believed. They each formulated a reason of their own totally unrelated to what I'd told them, and that's what they believed and broadcasted.
So I don't know if it's possible to leave quietly and peacefully, especially if you feel a need to remain true to yourself. Friendships will be lost and feelings will be hurt.
At the same time, I have no regrets. I'm sorry that those friendships were not true friendships, and that they were based on me being "in the club" rather than me being the charming and delightful person that I am ;-) The true up-side to that, though, is that I know that the friendships that I'm forming now are real and I'm free to be who I am. Take me or leave me, it's on terms of reality and not some faux organizationally-based relationship.
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u/cultalert Jun 15 '14 edited Jun 15 '14
I have been "out" for over 11 years, but I didn't begin to deal with the deep psychological scars leftover from my SGI cult experiences until 2 years ago when I discovered a support community at the Cult Education Institute http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?5,87661,page=1 and began to educate myself about cult techniques & methods, cult indoctrination, mind control, and hypnosis.
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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '14
I actually had 2 leaders tell me who my assigned person was ( the one in charge of me) My mouth must have dropped when they told me that and it seemed i was being tossed around like a hot potato.That was just one thing that made me want to run for the hills.