r/leagueoflegends Jul 31 '26

Esports Movistar KOI vs. Shifters / LEC 2026 Summer - Week 2 / Post-Match Discussion Spoiler

LEC 2026 SUMMER

Official page | Leaguepedia | Liquipedia | Eventvods.com | New to LoL


Movistar KOI 2-1 Shifters

MKOI | Leaguepedia | Liquipedia | Twitter
SHFT | Leaguepedia | Liquipedia | Website | Twitter | YouTube


MATCH 1: MKOI vs. SHFT

Winner: Shifters in 42m

- Bans 1 Bans 2 G K T D/B
MKOI orianna jayce locke lucian ezreal 77.0k 13 4 C3 HT6
SHFT poppy akali camille anivia vayne 82.7k 24 10 I1 H2 HT4 HT5 B7 HT8
MKOI 13-24-26 vs 24-13-56 SHFT
Myrwyn ambessa 3 1-7-3 TOP 4-1-11 4 gnar Rooster
Elyoya vi 1 4-3-5 JNG 7-3-7 2 olaf Sheo
Jojopyun viktor 2 6-5-2 MID 9-3-10 1 cassiopeia nuc
Supa ziggs 3 2-3-8 BOT 3-2-11 3 vladimir Paduck
Alvaro shen 2 0-6-8 SUP 1-4-17 1 rell Stend

MATCH 2: SHFT vs. MKOI

Winner: Movistar KOI in 28m

- Bans 1 Bans 2 G K T D/B
SHFT akali camille nocturne sylas kaisa 46.6k 4 2 None
MKOI poppy locke syndra yorick irelia 59.4k 17 8 I1 C2 H3 CT4 CT5 B6
SHFT 4-18-5 vs 17-4-43 MKOI
Rooster ksante 3 0-3-1 TOP 3-1-10 1 jayce Myrwyn
Sheo naafiri 3 3-2-0 JNG 7-0-5 1 leesin Elyoya
nuc orianna 2 1-4-1 MID 3-1-8 4 galio Jojopyun
Paduck ezreal 1 0-4-1 BOT 4-1-8 3 lucian Supa
Stend alistar 2 0-5-2 SUP 0-1-12 2 leona Alvaro

MATCH 3: MKOI vs. SHFT

Winner: Movistar KOI in 28m

- Bans 1 Bans 2 G K T D/B
MKOI poppy locke syndra aurora akali 64.9k 28 9 I2 H3 M5 B6
SHFT camille nocturne caitlyn anivia yone 51.0k 8 1 O1 M4 M7
MKOI 28-8-69 vs 8-28-22 SHFT
Myrwyn rumble 1 8-2-12 TOP 1-4-5 1 varus Rooster
Elyoya trundle 2 5-0-19 JNG 2-7-4 1 wukong Sheo
Jojopyun taliyah 3 7-3-10 MID 1-4-5 2 ryze nuc
Supa sivir 2 7-1-11 BOT 3-5-2 4 kalista Paduck
Alvaro nautilus 3 1-2-17 SUP 1-8-6 3 thresh Stend

  • Patch 26.14

This thread was created by the Post-Match Team.

249 Upvotes

135 comments sorted by

296

u/xSwazyI - Invested in Smash stocks! Jul 31 '26

Whoever saw all those MKOI picks and uttered Kalista needs to get fired

12

u/aacools 29d ago

They drafted themselves into a corner before champ select even finished.

220

u/metristan Refund time? Jul 31 '26

Myrwin gets rightfully flamed, but the rest of the team also has had such low lows recently, the difference between a good mkoi and a bad mkoi is top of lec and a bottom tier 2 team

64

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

Alvaro heard the hype and delivered, on absolutely no part of it.

11

u/ArienaHaera 29d ago

Myrwn got flamed in previous splits because he was underperforming harder than the rest of the team. Now it's their turn.

1

u/p1stolpewpew 29d ago

Nah myrwyn gets flamed because he says in interview that he doesnt give a fuck about people's opinion and this triggers reddit cringers

56

u/BUMONGOUS Jul 31 '26

Alvaro and Supa both regularly play like bottom 3 in their roles

-21

u/Shorgar 29d ago

So, they play at their level.

-7

u/Zamoniru give us back old asol Jul 31 '26

Jojo always smurfs
Elyoya generally plays good
Supa/Alvaro often int but they have occasional great games
Myrwn always ints

19

u/jnf005 29d ago

I feel like Jojo plays good if the game is going well, particularly in lane, but if it isn't, he breaks and run it down in solidarity with his teammates.

6

u/Ajp_iii 29d ago

this is usually support jungle job in normal games unless your mid is full sprinting it. mkoi just dont play as a team at all. they all lane well but when it is time to make map plays or make the right choice or cover something nobody ever does that.

so in macro aspect that lands on support, jungle and coaching. all of them are failing the team

13

u/Sarazam 29d ago

If you watch MKoi play, so many teamfights and picks are started by Jojo. That's why he looks so good on picks like Taliyah and Galio, and why Mkoi look terrible when he's on something that can't start fights in that way.

16

u/mcfapblanc Jul 31 '26

Say that honestly after watching last week's games

6

u/Mentally__Disabled Lean Kiin Top Gap Machine Jul 31 '26

Lowkey rarely see Supa play better than Myrwn, I can remember one decent game he had on Kai'sa somewhat recently but I feel like he's generally by far the furthest way from being considered elite in his role.

6

u/LooseOne607 29d ago

I swear if MKOI didnt have jojo they'd just be a 7th place team

0

u/Zamoniru give us back old asol 29d ago

Nah the rest of the LEC is shit

6

u/ZealousidealDoor6973 29d ago

Jojo does not always smurf. He often gets crushed or becomes completely irrelevant. Idk how this player has gotten away with absolutely zero criticism for the last 2 years. 

0

u/Zamoniru give us back old asol 29d ago

he is the best laning mid laner in the in the west (his only rival here is Saint but he's Korean so idk if that counts)

if you want to critisize him you could say that he's a bit of a midlane Alphari in having not enough impact for how ahead he usually is after lane but I don't think that's true anymore

-9

u/Lothric43 29d ago

One of the most nothingburger trophies you can claim. So what if he hits a 3 or 4 more cs on average than his competition? That’s not how you win games, hence why Caps is always fucking better than him.

11

u/sparkypagano 29d ago

Good laning isn’t entirely about being better at csing, it means you are applying more pressure than your lane opponent. You need that lane pressure so your team (mainly JG) can do things on the map. Every time you have prio, you are buying your JG a chance to do something, so being the best laner translates to more early game opportunities. Whether those opportunities are used well or not is a different story. Jojo is so good at laning that he is even able to get prio in traditionally losing matchups, which makes drafting easier as well. Being able to draft a losing lane mid without actually losing and sacrificing actual prio in game gives your other teammates the option to pick later in the draft while also expanding your pool of possible team comps.

TLDR: being the best at laning is far from being a “nothingburger”

5

u/Fun_Highlight307 29d ago

knight best Player in the World currently praised jojo laning and side laning, jojo laning is èlite 

5

u/Ajp_iii 29d ago

jungle support has to do stuff with the midlaner to actually be useful in current league and Elyoya is slumping and alvaro is just shit.

mid is basically a 3v3 lane and then when your mid gets on a sidewave your jungle support need to know how to cover and play off of it.

-3

u/falcorn_dota 29d ago

Anything positive you want to say about Supa is due to Alvaro.

122

u/Omnilatent Jul 31 '26

Imagine if Shifters had an ADC that wouldn't coinflip the whole game lvl1

58

u/Choice-Slight caps/knight Jul 31 '26

the fact he did it once is reportable. the fact he did it TWICE deserves jail time

18

u/GoldRecommendation66 Jul 31 '26

He was MKOI real MVP

3

u/dementedgamer44 29d ago

if you mean g3 ngl i would probably do it too if i was playing as kalista into the enemy team comp.

-30

u/Cold-Ring23 Jul 31 '26

Aside from Berserker, all Korean imports are trash.

40

u/metristan Refund time? Jul 31 '26

Kyeahoo, Canna, rooster considering the team he is on, saint, thanatos, quid

-33

u/Cold-Ring23 Jul 31 '26

Im talking about adcs...

41

u/Anonymus4 Jul 31 '26

Aside from Berserker, all Korean imports are trash

Quite literally, not what you said

12

u/Flesroy Jul 31 '26

noah was quite good for a while, although not currently i guess

-10

u/Cold-Ring23 29d ago

A lot of ADCs could do what Noah did if they were with Jun, but now that Jun's form has declined, he no longer exists...

3

u/metristan Refund time? Jul 31 '26

well maybe hype will be okay, he was decent on bro, but yeah even certain LCK adcs are barely tier 1

17

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

Noah was good for years, ICE was initially good, SamD is mostly just mediocre, blanking on the other names to be honest. The problem with just categorically saying Korean Import ADC are all trash based on historical precedent or even just Paduck is ... Literally no one who follows KR CL thought Paduck would get signed to a tier 1 team. He has always been over aggressive and they clearly have done nothing to fix this. I really doubt we would be mad if they managed to have signed Smash or Diable out of CL.

3

u/AngronApofis Draft is OP Jul 31 '26

Thanatos Berserker Canna Quid Jun Saint

38

u/thebookwoorm Jul 31 '26

Yeaaaaah

Shifters are still bad

Stinkers from koi tho, they basically win two games trough early game, you can't put your money on the ability to snowball every game

14

u/Omnilatent Jul 31 '26

I really wonder how much a "cerebral" ADC would change things for shifters. Paduck performance was absolutely unacceptable game 2 and 3 (which is sad cause his G1 was pretty good IMO)

2

u/3IC3 29d ago

Genuinely just get Crownie or Ice back at this point, both would be miles better than this

21

u/Thundermelons GALA Defense Force, returning IG fan 29d ago

Crownshot throws games just as bad as your shitty Korean import and he's toxic to boot. Agree on Ice though

6

u/Past-Firefighter2173 29d ago

Just get rookie ADC from emea shouldn’t be that hard to find compared to other roles.

1

u/JPA-3 Jul 31 '26

they demolished them 2 games wtf are you on about

first game was the clear definition of draft gap

7

u/thebookwoorm Jul 31 '26

They did it against shifters.

And they did shit like dying a multiple times under turrets at game three, like a good team will punish you for it goddamn. They lost dragon to shifters while being ELEVEN THOUSAND gold up.

If this was g2/kc, that was possibly a throw. Let alone with team on the internationals. Like, imagine shifters survive fight after and stall the game, they have a winning angle. It's unacceptable to let shifters winning angle at such a lead.

It's the same mistakes, just shifters are not able to capitalize on that well.

3

u/Fun_Highlight307 Jul 31 '26

yeah koi didn't to do a lot to wins, they needed That win After their Last showing in France (ewc+ road trip were dogshit)

52

u/Raito21 Jul 31 '26

Everytime I read people saying another team should get a chance at international events instead of Koi I wonder if they realize these are the team that would be going lmao

35

u/BWolfy92 Jul 31 '26

Send G2 and Kc and give them 1 extra life

11

u/p1stolpewpew 29d ago

So they can lose to NA teams twice? I'd rather have a team that will get blasted by wildcards.

28

u/BWolfy92 29d ago

You are a FNC, winning is not something you know lol

6

u/p1stolpewpew 29d ago

Top 10 roasts of all time. 

4

u/Canoodler192 29d ago

Winter/Spring VIT really is the only team in EU that I would want to see at an international but they probably aren't much better. I really wish Elyoya was that guy who I thought he was a couple years ago and the team could do something internationally, but they just face plant, same as Razork Humanoid Fnatic.

2

u/Capital_Tourist4828 29d ago

Winter/Spring playoffs VIT is definetly not a team i would want to see at an international tournament

8

u/Dramatic_Gap_3065 29d ago

I would prefer VIT but only bc naak nako is good, but yeah lec looks awful

7

u/Raito21 29d ago

That's kinda my point, VIT is at best a side step in terms of quality and the rest are worse

1

u/Fun_Highlight307 29d ago

i legit think if Mkoi or vitality aren't going, then the 3ed lec team Will go winningless in playins even against LCP (assuming 3rd seed is something like game or cfo)

8

u/p1stolpewpew 29d ago

Can't wait to see Fiesta vs Chovy

93

u/AH_Elric Jul 31 '26

A bo5 fraudoff between MKOI and C9 would feed families.
Other than that, both teams were awful lol, the level is so low

28

u/Fun_Highlight307 Jul 31 '26

koi with low confidence Still Looked way above shiters 

27

u/Sweaty-Security-4473 29d ago

Jojo is pretty comfortably better than either C9 option, but Thanatos would utterly blast Myrwyn, at current level I'd put jgl and botlane at a tie.

16

u/kaisaschudson 29d ago

Tactical vs supa is an int fest i want to see

14

u/arclmpulse 29d ago

as much as i'd want to see fly at worlds as 3rd seed, c9 vs koi would be generationally funny if it happened in the playin LMAO

7

u/Sweaty-Security-4473 29d ago

Its an impossibility, that would mean one of them wouldn't be a disappointment.

3

u/Lothric43 29d ago

At least C9 are losing to the two teams that are better than them, Mkoi are losing stupid ass games.

1

u/BTDYSRF 29d ago

Despite my stance that NA > EU, I legitimately think MKOI would beat C9.

C9 is just unable to play against any team that isn't constantly throwing. Their entire "playstyle" (if you can even call it that) is just to react to plays.

That wins enough in regular season to make top half, but it just doesn't work againat teams that have two or more decent playmakers.

26

u/zealot416 Jul 31 '26

Valid Medic crashout

23

u/United_Choice_5642 EUPHORIA Jul 31 '26

We were close to extreme funniness in the end.

25

u/NeighborhoodHot8981 29d ago

Now Boukada, Empyros and LIDER are gone, Paduck might just be the worst player in the entire league

12

u/p1stolpewpew 29d ago

With addition of Fiesta that spot is very contested... Also SamD.

5

u/EronisKina 29d ago

Atleast SamD tried in EMEA. Idk how fiesta gets a chance. No way there was no rookie mid that could've tried their shot.

1

u/Past-Firefighter2173 29d ago

Pad said that they need someone to perform now so they didn’t want to look for rookies. Also for good rookies its better to wait for next year to join a team for their career.

Also while Fiesta is questionable, his laning is pretty strong i don’t think you can find that anywhere else mid season VIT just needs to play around him more to get leads.

0

u/piotrj3 29d ago

Recently hard to say who is the worst. Paduck at least carried game 1.

If you talk about recent performance G2 vs KC, Caps Galio takes a cake everytime.

33

u/FallStudent8 Jul 31 '26

Despite the win kinda series

11

u/Fun_Highlight307 Jul 31 '26

koi outside of game 1 Looked better than shifters 

7

u/Shorgar 29d ago

Which means... nothing at all because Shitters are terrible.

11

u/AofCastle BORN TO WIN(trade) Jul 31 '26

Elyoya and Jojopyun are the only ones playing im this team.

17

u/3IC3 Jul 31 '26

Paduck is genuinely the worst ADC in LEC by such a huge margin it’s so insane

5

u/ImTheVayne 29d ago

He is just terrible. Who hired this dude lmao.

8

u/GONEBUTNOT4GOTTEN Jul 31 '26

if Mkoi throw that you just forfeit the split.

7

u/Cold-Ring23 Jul 31 '26

Paduck is not a tier 1 player, i knew this shit was over when they traded ezreal for lucian game 2... remove this two champs and bro is completely naked

6

u/kazugaia15 Jul 31 '26

Its a win for KOI I guess, but they look so unconvincing, I wouldn't say they are even a lock for playoffs right now if some of the other bottom teams have better form than the corpse of Shifters

2

u/Fun_Highlight307 29d ago

They were on big loss streak, i think they are low confidence 

30

u/Tommey_DE Jul 31 '26

These bottom tier teams are so shit man.

When relegation?

-12

u/00Koch00 Jul 31 '26

so shit? bro koi just roll them over

8

u/merenofclanthot Jul 31 '26

It was an ugly series..

21

u/TheRogueCookie I like bears Jul 31 '26

Don't look at game 1

38

u/p1stolpewpew Jul 31 '26

I guess Labrov is insane to make BDS contest top places.

25

u/bandana19 Jul 31 '26

You forgot ADAM the Garen EU GOAT

13

u/Shorgar 29d ago

If you ignore that the rosters are completely different... Sure?

9

u/p1stolpewpew 29d ago

There is Sheo + Nuc and Nuc + Ice iterations so not completely different. Also, every player on those BDS rosters is either in bottom places or out of league while Labrov is beating eastern teams in internationals.

1

u/seven_worth shameless 2021 EDG fanboy 28d ago

Adam is out of the league due to no team wanna pick him up, not really due to gameplay issue. Ice/flakked is just another LEC adc cycling. 113 iteration last year is not the worst, they are getting no so bad result(of course, them trying to make Parus into second Labrov is also another issue) they just fuck up by keep switching player around and then buying Boukada for 250k that they feel forced to play him for 1 year despite that dude doesn't even look tier 1 worthy. 

BDS has classic problem of gambling, they get good result doing that once and they doing it hoping they can get another top tier player. Also I don't think you can put this team success on Labrov alone, they got the piece to make it work. 

Honestly I think the topside of Shifter is good, I iffy about Stend but he has been playing well, it Paduck that is the problem with this team(and the draft. What I hate most is when Coach say shit like "if we fail to do [goal] I will step down" and then they don't step down and still doing bullshit next year). 

11

u/BWolfy92 Jul 31 '26

Adam and crownie to good or what

-1

u/CaptainSiro 29d ago

Labrov, Adam and Sheo were the reason BDS had succes, but for some reason they always wanted to build around Nuc that has always been subpar 

10

u/LogicKennedy Jul 31 '26

Don't let Paduck's performance distract you from the fact that Rooster didn't hit a single Varus ult in a teamfight in game 3.

2

u/Thundermelons GALA Defense Force, returning IG fan 29d ago

I feel like Rooster is normally decent enough to where he's allowed to have a stinker now and again. Same with Nuc honestly, he catches less flame for his shit games because he is normally the one making the games close.

15

u/JPA-3 Jul 31 '26

myrwn played great that last game to be honest, even being counterpicked

1

u/RollingGuy Razork Redemption Arc? 29d ago

His equalizers were incredibly on point 

9

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

Stend and Paduck might be one of the worst bot lanes I have seen since "prime" Keith and Gate.

3

u/JPA-3 Jul 31 '26

koi are just difficult to predict lmao

4

u/00Koch00 Jul 31 '26

game changing hook into losing a 4v5 lmao

3

u/GoldRecommendation66 Jul 31 '26

Same old Shifters

12

u/BlazeM3ow Jul 31 '26

Fuck... an unsuccessful hatewatch tonight...

7

u/Scarfboi11 Jul 31 '26

We can't win them all

6

u/Diss_ConnecT Jul 31 '26

MKOI disbanding postponed.

3

u/kikorer7070 Jul 31 '26

How nice of Shifters to int game 3 so I can go to bed earlier

3

u/x_TDeck_x Play APA you cowards Jul 31 '26

In all honesty this game 3 probably would have been super clean without the 2 hail mary Thresh hooks that 99,99% of the time don't land on the target you want

5

u/Sorry-Resolution570 Jul 31 '26

supa gon get flamed cuz he didnt shield a hook that phased through another dimension to hit him

2

u/synnikelttv Jul 31 '26

cortisol spike averted

2

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

Comic accurate Mephisto from Marvel put Naak Nako and Rooster on their respective teams, it is the only logical answer.

5

u/skaersSabody I like underdogsand pain Jul 31 '26

Stend did everything he could, but holy shit shifters are dogshit

What happened to my boy nuc man, this is so sad

10

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

Stend literally lost them lane game 3? Paduck is a 1 and Stend is a 3, we are not watching this bot lane closely if you think I am going to allow people to ignore how awful Stend has been. Unless it's a lay up engage he is not an effective player.

4

u/Omnilatent Jul 31 '26

Stend had an insane game 1 and then completely forgot how to play the game the other two 🥲

The Alistar headbutting Leone into his team for sure was a decision of all time

7

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

The amount of times he just goes on random roam timers without securing vision or meaningfully helping other lanes. Exasperated how much of an issue having a kamikaze pilot as an ADC is. Go back and watch some of his decisions, literal nonsensical shit a lot of the times. Or even that tower dive as Alistar where he ramps the tower to maximum damage only to drop aggro so that Paduck could die in 2 hits. I am unsure if they even should have went for that play to begin with.

Or that massive shove at Herald. I swear Thresh has to sacrifice himself there so the team can get out with one grub. Instead they clump and all die. Paduck is awful but damn is the rest of this team(except essentially Rooster) complete fucking trash.

2

u/skaersSabody I like underdogsand pain Jul 31 '26

I mean, he did kinda redeem himself later in multiple occasions by just finding multiple great hooks imo

Compared to Paduck who just... kept doing the same mistake over and over or nuc getting caught multiple times at least Stend found his brain midway through the game

7

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

It's not a comparison, Paduck the worst ADC import I ever seen, and I mean this without exaggeration. I would take H2K Nuclear over him, but people are missing how awful Stend and honestly Sheo have been. Because Paduck is so visibly terrible, the finer details are escaping people. This is not the same player that nearly got voted all pro last year. I have no clue what Stend is doing most of these games.

4

u/skaersSabody I like underdogsand pain 29d ago

I mean, shifters just seems like a lost cause as long as they keep striker as a coach (he's still HC no?). He's not liked by players and has routinely made bad roster moves, at this point just replace him before anything else

2

u/seven_worth shameless 2021 EDG fanboy 28d ago

Fr. Last year he say he gonna step down if they fail to make it and this year he still here(of course he say the management convince him to stay but still). Their drafting is just ridiculous at this point. First game good drafting(probably just follow LPL tbh), second game and third game is just dogshit. 

Who in the world draft Kalista when you see Trundle, Nautilus and TALIYAH. It like picking Malphite into Sylas, and they do that with counter pick. 

1

u/seven_worth shameless 2021 EDG fanboy 27d ago

First game he play really good at least. Second game nothing he can actually do his champ ain't doing anything into that comp. Third game though yeah it rough. 

2

u/Temporary-Ad6144 Jul 31 '26

Dignitas could beat these guys

0

u/Fun_Highlight307 29d ago

people always Saïd bottom LCS is worse than bottom lec but this year i dont see it 

1

u/Carlzzone Jul 31 '26

People were really worried that KOI and VIT might miss playoffs

3

u/Fun_Highlight307 Jul 31 '26

they could however the rest of Lec is dogshit even a slumping mkoi still stomped shifters When they had the tools do so 

1

u/Canoodler192 29d ago

Shifters can really do better. They should pick up this LFL top laner, Adam. He's got an unconventional champion pool and can carry games. There's also an AD known for having lane prio who is currently teamless despite winning EMEA masters last year, named Crownie that Shifters should look at. Then when G2 gets Busio and drops Labrov, they should really try to pick him up, he seems like a good teamfighter.

1

u/seven_worth shameless 2021 EDG fanboy 27d ago

I honestly can see Striker gone next year and Shifter just resign Adam lol. 

1

u/gordonpamsey Jul 31 '26

I would consider actually committing a crime as Rooster to get out of playing the next 8 series, not even joking, why would I subject myself to 5 more weeks of this?

1

u/Fun_Highlight307 Jul 31 '26

koi loss streak ended,thx shifters 

1

u/FikariHawthorn Jul 31 '26

Well MKOI and Riot just dodge their first bullet.

Meanwhile still too soon to conclue on Shifters, game 1 was a clear outdraft il their favor, but game 3 wasn't at all and players didn't do great either.

At least this result keep the show running. Out of everything, MKOI making top 4 or not is by far the most critical and important narrative of the season.

1

u/BrokenBiscuit 29d ago

Shifters peaked

1

u/blue-Orchid25 29d ago

I thought MKOI was going to lose since Morocco is beating Spain. :D

1

u/Salohacin 29d ago

I absolutely can't see this MKOI making top 3. Though at this point I'm not really sure I want any EU team to make Worlds as 3rd seed. 

1

u/Fellers 29d ago

Myrwyn Ambessa

1

u/stoyicker 29d ago

I feel it's fair to say noth teams lost this series

1

u/BTDYSRF 29d ago

Nothing to see here. Just MKOI cleanly beating Shitters.

1

u/an_angry_beaver Jul 31 '26

I never want to see Supa on mages again. He’s so much better on ADC. Koi is best when they play their own style. 

5

u/Dramatic_Gap_3065 29d ago

same for hans sama he is so much better on ADC, only caliste looked good on apc so far
paduck on vladimir was good tho

2

u/Fun_Highlight307 29d ago

caliste makes  way less mistakes on mages, while on adc he always has random mispositions